Define 'On-Baller' and 'KPP'

[Powerstufff]

These terms get bandied about but are we all talking about the same thing?
What is your definition, or do you have a link to one?
I'm doing up a diagram for our footy club juniors showing the 18 on-field positions. Parents (some who know nothing about footy) will come up to me and say they've heard of 'On-Ballers' and 'Key Position Players' but which ones on my diagram are they? I can't find a definitive answer.
My view
'On-Ballers'
The two rovers and the ruck-rover (terms you never even hear anymore).
It implies an ability to get the ball and the freedom not to have to mark an opponent
'Key Position Players'
Really only the spine, FB, CHB, Ruck, CHF, FF

 

[Bentleigh]

'On-Baller'
Bloke who plays in the guts who is not the ruckman

'KPP'
FF/CHF/CHB/FB/

Ruckman?

 

[Lynch drops a mark]

I would probably take the ruckmen out of the KPP

in todays game they are much becoming another midfielder

 

[snakebite01]

On-ballers nowadays pretty much relate to anyone who is present at a ball-up around the ground. Basically your centreman, ruck-rover, rover and even wings.

KPP is just the spine, excluding the centreman.

 

[Portia]

On-baller - running players that follow the contest, specifically ball-ups. Sometimes ruckmen, but I wouldn't use it like that.
Midfielder - Any small to medium player running between half back and half-forward
KPPs are what the name means - key position targets. Just being tall isn't enough, the player has to be a focal point (or in the case of defence, playing on the focal point) of the gameplan. Rucks are not KPPs.

 

[Bentleigh]

On-baller - running players that follow the contest, specifically ball-ups. Sometimes ruckmen, but I wouldn't use it like that.
Midfielder - Any small to medium player running between half back and half-forward

Bollocks.

Onballer and midfeilder is the same thing.

KPPs are what the name means - key position targets. Just being tall isn't enough, the player has to be a focal point (or in the case of defence, playing on the focal point) of the gameplan. Rucks are not KPPs.

Key Postion Player.

Is the ruckman not a key postion?

 

[hotpie]

Is the ruckman not a key postion?

No, its no position at all.

 

[snakebite01]

Ruckman's not a KPP. As Porthos says, a KPP is somebody who the team's structure is built around and a focal point where the coach wants the ball to end up (ie FF/CHF). The two players who aim to stop these players are also KPP (CHB/FB). There are only 4 KPP's in a team. Everyone else in the team works around them.

A ruckman is not situated in any specific part of the ground for a prolonged period where the play runs through them, therefore, not KPP.

 

[mitch_fc]

i'd say your on ballers are the 4 blokes in the square for a centre bounce.... Ruck, Ruck Rover, Rover and Centre. An old school centre man would generally sit a kick off the play, and not be as much around the pack. these days rover, Rrover and Centre are all part of a group which also includes the ruckman... theyre expected to be everywhere.

KPP are pretty much the FF, FB, CHF and CHB

 

[Kooley]

one is usually big and the other is usually small.

 

[Lonie_from_50]

Onballer
Midfielder who plays on the ball, generally a clearance player, position known as R/R, Rov and Centre normally.

KPP
Key Position Player. Tall player who plays the key post in either forward or back line, position known as FB, CHB, CHF and FF normally

 

[Bentleigh]

The postion of the ruckman on the football feild is a 'key postion'.

Regardless if classed a KPP or otherwise.

 

[Bentleigh]

one is usually big and the other is usually small.

Midfeilders are usually 180-190cm.

Not really all that small compared to your average bloke on the street.

 

[Kooley]

Midfeilders are usually 180-190cm.

Not really all that small compared to your average bloke on the street.

wasn't talking about their height

 

[steve-o]

Bollocks.
Onballer and midfeilder is the same thing.

Since when?

 

[Lonie_from_50]

Midfeilders are usually 180-190cm.

Not really all that small compared to your average bloke on the street.

Onballers are generally the smallest midfielders though!

 

[Bentleigh]

Onballers are generally the smallest midfielders though!

Onballers are midfeilders you freaks.

 

[snakebite01]

Onballers are midfeilders you freaks.

I agree with you on this point. There is absolutely no difference between an on-baller and a midfielder.

But in terms of the ruckman, they aren't a KPP and they are no more of a "key position" than the number 1/2/3 midfielder.

 

[Cyclops]

Mixed up terminology.

Rucks is an old term dating back to when teams played two ruckmen and a rover (tap ruck and a "shepherd ruck", before the Barrassi invention of "ruck-rover"). The rucks or ruck division was the three blokes who would follow the ball and not have fixed positions.

Forwards took shots at goal (legend has it a Collingwood winger was rebuked by McHale for kicking a bag once, that was the FF's job). Defenders stopped forwards. Midfielders played in between (wingmen and centremen).

KPP and On-ballers are more modern terms to my ear, of the same ilk as taggers, utilities etc. Because teams no longer line up according to the 3-3-3-3-3-3 schematic terms like rover, ruck-rover, centremen, winger and flankers have lost much of their meaning.

I guess on-ballers are the rotation of midfielders, rovers, ruckrovers, taggers and half backs and half-forwards who take turns following the play. Ruckmen are a special case as they often have a zone role, typically drifting to CHB (where Dempsey used to pick up a squllion possesions and votes).

KPP refer to FF CHF CHB and FB. I think they make up the spine, as the centreman is more of an onballer these days and not the linkman he was in the old days.

Another set of terminology is Parkins notions of talls and smalls. With prkin the rot really set in, with the mosquito fleet he built at Carlton c1979. If you weren't a "tall", you were a small and you ran around all day and gave everone the s***s. 'Talls" were generalised big blokes who tended to stay forward or back and take marks, do ruckwork and tap the ball to the irritating smalls.

 

[Powerstufff]

On-baller - ....Sometimes ruckmen, but I wouldn't use it like that......

Yeah I tend to agree. Because of their size/strength they usually go forward or back depending on the team's structure

On-baller - running players that follow the contest, specifically ball-ups. .......
Midfielder - Any small to medium player running between half back and half-forward....

Which is where it starts to get vague. If the wingman runs for the ball his opposite no. does too - usually. But if the wingman runs away to set up a loose man in general then again his opposite no. usually does too.
IMO you can't call it being 'on the ball' just because play often takes you near the ball.
I reckon you actually have to have a Peter Burgoyne/Chris Judd like job to forever be around the ball and where watching your opponent is down the list of priorities.

.....KPPs are what the name means - key position targets. Just being tall isn't enough, the player has to be a focal point (or in the case of defence, playing on the focal point) of the game-plan. Rucks are not KPPs.

Pretty much as I saw it. It's just that in stuff I've see lately it seems the scope is spreading and that flanks, pocket and wings are referred to by posters as KPs which means 15 KPPs!

Bollocks....

Is that necessary? It's just an opinion on a pretty neutral topic.

....Onballer and midfielder is the same thing....

I reckon even some of the players think so going by the number who say they want on play on the ball or just did so. Maybe they are right but as I say above IMO they aren't the same. We'll see how opinion goes and if anyone has a link to an authoritative source.

....Is the ruckman not a key position?

I personally don't think so for reasons referred to above. IMO it's a key role, but he's gone after the centre bounce.

 

[Powerstufff]

Mixed up terminology......tap the ball to the irritating smalls.

Great reply all through just didn't want to re-quote the entire thing. Thanks.

 

[Johnson#26]

Onballer - running midfielder, can be inside or outside player.

KP: Spine players. FB, CHF, CHF, FF, R.

 

[nut]

I'll define it for you in one word.

































Deledio. KPP and Midfielder

 

[Powerstufff]

I'll define it for you in one word.
Deledio. KPP and Midfielder

That's really going to make it simple for young kids and families from non footy following backgrounds. Do you actually have a view on this?

 

[nut]

That's really going to make it simple for young kids and families from non footy following backgrounds. Do you actually have a view on this?

Well he can play both. So simply. Deledio.


Ok the game is now based on KPP and Midfielders. Starting positions are irrelevant these days.

Think 3 Tall Forwards between 190 and 200 cmm. And three Tall Defenders to play on the oposition forwrds. 1-2 Ruckman,
that makes 7-8 players over 190, Rest of the players are under 192 and play as midfielders, Defensive, Attacking and central, a bit like soccer.