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Dennis Pagan v2.0

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Lukesta63

Lukesta63

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The ascent of MM to the head coach position at our club ,is eerily reminiscent of the appointment of Dennis Pagan.
Both highly credentialed "master" coaches at the time who had arrived from successful teams.
We all know how that panned out ,dont we???

I'm not panicking after one result ,but we were crap last night! Where was this lauded defensive game of MM's ,or is it going to take all season to adapt?
Sorry I dont think the Lions are going to trouble anyone this year,and we couldnt get it past our half forward line .
I hope Im wrong !

P.S It still does my head in watching MM with a navy blue top on !!!!
 
Having a gameplan based around possibly the best centre-half forward of all time in Wayne Carey doesn't necessarily make you a "master" coach.

Malthouse's defensive gameplan has been proven to be adaptable to several teams over the past three decades. But like Fremantle last year it will probably take half a season. If we can scrap together enough wins in the first half of the season, then we'll be ripe to at least have a good crack at the finals this year. In all reality 2013 is probably a dress rehersal for 2014 and 2015.
 

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toomuchsparetime said:
Having a gameplan based around possibly the best centre-half forward of all time in Wayne Carey doesn't necessarily make you a "master" coach.

Malthouse's defensive gameplan has been proven to be adaptable to several teams over the past three decades. But like Fremantle last year it will probably take half a season. If we can scrap together enough wins in the first half of the season, then we'll be ripe to at least have a good crack at the finals this year. In all reality 2013 is probably a dress rehersal for 2014 and 2015.
Click to expand...

I 100% agree with this, coaches like sheedy, pagan and malthouse think that just because a certain game plan works at one club, it will work at all clubs. The problem with this is that pagan had carey at nth melbourne and implemented his gameplan around him, when he came to carlton he thought he could do the same, but we had no one in our team at chf that could even tie careys bootlaces let alone follow his gameplan.

Same now with malthouse, remember collingwood had 2 monster forwards in Dawes and Cloke that made his game plan work. We dont have that,
malthouse needs to remember that he needs to produce a game plan that suits our personnel and NOT what has worked at other clubs.
 
lilJeffyG said:
I 100% agree with this, coaches like sheedy, pagan and malthouse think that just because a certain game plan works at one club, it will work at all clubs. The problem with this is that pagan had carey at nth melbourne and implemented his gameplan around him, when he came to carlton he thought he could do the same, but we had no one in our team at chf that could even tie careys bootlaces let alone follow his gameplan.

Same now with malthouse, remember collingwood had 2 monster forwards in Dawes and Cloke that made his game plan work. We dont have that,
malthouse needs to remember that he needs to produce a game plan that suits our personnel and NOT what has worked at other clubs.
Click to expand...
real issue is the midfield getting dominated. Travis cloke wouldve struggled being double teamed at every contest. Especially with a quality defender with the size and strength of Merret.
 
lilJeffyG said:
I 100% agree with this, coaches like sheedy, pagan and malthouse think that just because a certain game plan works at one club, it will work at all clubs. The problem with this is that pagan had carey at nth melbourne and implemented his gameplan around him, when he came to carlton he thought he could do the same, but we had no one in our team at chf that could even tie careys bootlaces let alone follow his gameplan.
Click to expand...

*cough* Andrew Merrington *cough*
 

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I think Malthouse would be shocked at how man-handled the "superstar" Carlton midfield gets on a regular basis. Last night ours rucks dominated but only Rich and Moloney seemed interested in getting the ball. I think there were plenty of signs, too, of how much some of our team aren't interested in running hard defensively and that the fast and skillful tag on Carlton's team applies to some players, not the team in general.

With all that said... I liked what Brereton and Roos were saying last night. Basically, OK, you can see they're trying a different plan and they're not getting it right at the moment. But it's not a disaster, it's just a work in progress. Brisbane executed their plan beautifully last night, and looked absolutely keyed in, ready to go. Good for them, but it's an awfully long season and it hasn't started yet, so let's save the big ol' membership cook up for about round 5.

I think we're a very undisciplined side, and that would be dawning on Malthouse about now. We have historically succeeded on the basis of superb individual skills and everyone allowed to do their thing, rather than adhere to a team plan. Malthouse's tried and true method is to succeed with a system. It'll take time, and there might be some casualties along the way, but I think we'll be far better placed in a few months.
 
Faz 2000 said:
I think Malthouse would be shocked at how man-handled the "superstar" Carlton midfield gets on a regular basis. Last night ours rucks dominated but only Rich and Moloney seemed interested in getting the ball.
Click to expand...

Our rucks dominated ourselves by constantly tapping to the advantage of the Brions :oops:
 
Lukesta63 said:
The ascent of MM to the head coach position at our club ,is eerily reminiscent of the appointment of Dennis Pagan.
Both highly credentialed "master" coaches at the time who had arrived from successful teams.
We all know how that panned out ,dont we???

I'm not panicking after one result ,but we were crap last night! Where was this lauded defensive game of MM's ,or is it going to take all season to adapt?
Sorry I dont think the Lions are going to trouble anyone this year,and we couldnt get it past our half forward line .
I hope Im wrong !

P.S It still does my head in watching MM with a navy blue top on !!!!
Click to expand...
don't be dramatic, that is one of the most stupid calls I've heard in a long time.
even though they are playing at the most elite level of football, a change of game plan will take a while after 5 years.
thank goodness people like you don't work with or in the club
 
mickelboy182 said:
Our rucks dominated ourselves by constantly tapping to the advantage of the Brions :oops:
Click to expand...

Best clearance of the night, IMO, was Hampson palming it down to Moloney on the wing. It was a thing of beauty. Superb ruckwork.
 

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It was pretty apparent within five minutes that Brisbane were desperate to win this thing, far more interested than us.

Eerily reminiscent of us in 2005 to be honest.

Relax.
 
mickelboy182 said:
Our rucks dominated ourselves by constantly tapping to the advantage of the Brions :oops:
Click to expand...

Yep. That for me was what was most frustrating about last night. Kruezer was dominating in the ruck... in general we were killing the ruck contests... but we got pummelled in the clearances... Frankly it was hard to understand how it could have gone so wrong... it really looked at times like Kruezer was rucking for the paddlepops. What I don't know is whether Kruezer should have been doing something different, or should our little fellas have shown more awareness and gotten to better places.

But I don't think I'll be jumping off the Blues... ever.
 
ODNBlue said:
What I don't know is whether Kruezer should have been doing something different, or should our little fellas have shown more awareness and gotten to better places..
Click to expand...

I think a dynamic that can develop when one team has a dominant ruckman is that both teams starting roving to that ruckman. Ie. Last night I suspect Rich and Moloney and co abandoned the idea that Billy Longer was going to tap it to them and instead watched Kreuzer/Hampson's hand. It's something that happens to Freo a lot - Sandilands DOMINATES the hitouts, but the Dockers do not necessarily dominate clearances, because all the midfielders are roving to Sandi anyway.

The Lions middies also put on a clinic about movement at clearances and hitting the contest with some speed up. They left the much-vaunted superstar Carlton midfield flat-footed and useless repeatedly.
 
Big_Luch said:
what no microwaving it? tearing it up is soft...microwave that bad boy
Click to expand...

I would've thought tearing up a plastic card is proper 'ard...as opposed to pressing a button.

PS....
chickenlicken.jpg
 
lilJeffyG said:
I 100% agree with this, coaches like sheedy, pagan and malthouse think that just because a certain game plan works at one club, it will work at all clubs. The problem with this is that pagan had carey at nth melbourne and implemented his gameplan around him, when he came to carlton he thought he could do the same, but we had no one in our team at chf that could even tie careys bootlaces let alone follow his gameplan.

Same now with malthouse, remember collingwood had 2 monster forwards in Dawes and Cloke that made his game plan work. We dont have that,
malthouse needs to remember that he needs to produce a game plan that suits our personnel and NOT what has worked at other clubs.
Click to expand...


So why sack Ratten if MM is not going to deliver immediate results? I agree with your post ,I am purely highlighting the similarities of the period Pagan was appointed
 
we lost the nab cup grand final. big DEAL!

some people need to get in touch with reality.

we are not a top 4 team and are a fair way off that. Its going to take time under a new coach. I would be happy to make finals and win 1.

if youre going to bring up comparisons to one of our darkest periods every time we lose, youre in for a long year.
 
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