Analysis Derek Hine

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Mar 26, 2016
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In Hine we trust...or do we?

One of the emerging themes of recent seasons has been an increasing unbalance in our list as a whole. Our failure to invest quality picks in KPP's is now coming home to roost, and our fixation on questionably skilled inside types is also in the process of being unpicked.

This off seasons sees the problems coming to a head. A combination of recruiting player by player rather than big picture, and some questionable contract decisions have left us exposed. Overall list strategy I would argue has shown to be a failure and the evidence is there to be seen as we initiate a rebuild of the rebuild.

From everything I have heard, Derek Hine is well respected in the AFL community as a recruiter.

My impression is that he is generally one of the best at identifying a suitable candidate as "best available" especially with lower picks.

But is list management as opposed to recruiting a step above his ability?

Did the loss of Walsh, and introduction of Balme ostensibly as Director of Football but practically as Nathan's helpmate leave us exposed on the strategic level and when it came to contract negotiations?

Over to you.
 
Bad Horse said:
In Hine we trust...or do we?

One of the emerging themes of recent seasons has been an increasing unbalance in our list as a whole. Our failure to invest quality picks in KPP's is now coming home to roost, and our fixation on questionably skilled inside types is also in the process of being unpicked.

This off seasons sees the problems coming to a head. A combination of recruiting player by player rather than big picture, and some questionable contract decisions have left us exposed. Overall list strategy I would argue has shown to be a failure and the evidence is there to be seen as we initiate a rebuild of the rebuild.

From everything I have heard, Derek Hine is well respected in the AFL community as a recruiter.

My impression is that he is generally one of the best at identifying a suitable candidate as "best available" especially with lower picks.

But is list management as opposed to recruiting a step above his ability?

Did the loss of Walsh, and introduction of Balme ostensibly as Director of Football but practically as Nathan's helpmate leave us exposed on the strategic level and when it came to contract negotiations?

Over to you.
Click to expand...
There's always been question marks over Derek's list management skills since he took on the role imo. To me, his talent identification is up there with the best in the league, but his insistence of prioritising best available over best list fit no matter what has left us exposed.

By the looks of how this offseason is shaping up, list management has been taken over by Gubby. Hopefully this allows Hine to do what he does best and get us elite junior talent through the door, hopefully with a bit more emphasis on players who fill list needs.
 

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Our lack of KPP isn't because of Hine (although truthfully I feel he's a bit overrated anyway), it's because of Buckley plus other external factors.

- Brown wanted to leave
- Frost wanted to leave
- Marsh wanted to leave
- Reid's injuries have been poorly managed
- Keefe was a party boy
- Cloke wanted to leave
- We chose not to take Stewart
- Scharenberg is incredibly unlucky

I mean we have/had plenty of KPP.
 
The title thread sounds like an episode name of the

Big Bang theory
 
I am not sure how much Hine is involved with the talent picking at junior level these days but around the time we promoted him we also started to have less success at the draft. Combined with the continued player exits the list is very bare. The KP are a reflection of this but minus the mids we have trded for the midfied is very pedestrian. Between de Goey and Pendlebury there wasn't much success and Dde Goey has a long way to go and there is still some doubt on how far he'll go.
 
MarkT2 said:
I am not sure how much Hine is involved with the talent picking at junior level these days but around the time we promoted him we also started to have less success at the draft. Combined with the continued player exits the list is very bare. The KP are a reflection of this but minus the mids we have trded for the midfied is very pedestrian. Between de Goey and Pendlebury there wasn't much success and Dde Goey has a long way to go and there is still some doubt on how far he'll go.
Click to expand...

WTF?

What about:

  • Reid
  • N Brown
  • Sidebottom
  • Beams
  • L Brown
  • Grundy
  • Fasolo
 
I have no trouble with the theory of draft best talent and trade in KPP where required , but we've left ourselves short and with less trading ammo than we'd like. As everyone keeps saying - hopefully they have some tricks up their sleeve. Dekka was being a bit more specific about list needs at the Members Forum.

I have no issue with the players we have moved on btw.
 
golazo said:
If this is what I'll be reading on here all throughout the pre-season... I think I'll stay away until round one.
Click to expand...

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Shpeshal Ed said:
Our lack of KPP isn't because of Hine (although truthfully I feel he's a bit overrated anyway), it's because of Buckley plus other external factors.

- Brown wanted to leave
- Frost wanted to leave
- Marsh wanted to leave
- Reid's injuries have been poorly managed
- Keefe was a party boy
- Cloke wanted to leave
- We chose not to take Stewart
- Scharenberg is incredibly unlucky

I mean we have/had plenty of KPP.
Click to expand...
LOL.

* I bet a search of the gameday threads, there'd be many posts from you bagging Brown, Frost and Marsh. Rightly so.
* Please update us on Reid's poor injury management. What was it that we actually did, didn't do ?
* Keeffe, certainly got caught out.
* You wanted Gault to play instead of Cloke during Pre-season, therefore safe to assume, you'd be scathing on Cloke this year. Rightly so.
* Stewart is not a KPP and will never be. Will be lucky to be in the AFL system in a few years.
* Scharenberg unlucky but not a KPP.

I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make here, outside of possibly proving yourself to be hypocritical.
 
Shpeshal Ed said:
Our lack of KPP isn't because of Hine (although truthfully I feel he's a bit overrated anyway), it's because of Buckley plus other external factors.

- Brown wanted to leave
- Frost wanted to leave
- Marsh wanted to leave
- Reid's injuries have been poorly managed
- Keefe was a party boy
- Cloke wanted to leave
- We chose not to take Stewart
- Scharenberg is incredibly unlucky

I mean we have/had plenty of KPP.
Click to expand...
Scharenberg is not, nor has ever been a KPP.
 
Agreed, looking at our list management I struggle to see a clear direction; then again I have limited knowledge of the inner workings of the club.

As Shpeshal Ed said, I'm not sure if our recruitment is a bigger problem than our player turnover. We've actually brought in some gems over the last few years, but we've had many players walk.
 
Shpeshal Ed said:
Our lack of KPP isn't because of Hine (although truthfully I feel he's a bit overrated anyway), it's because of Buckley plus other external factors.

- Brown wanted to leave
- Frost wanted to leave
- Marsh wanted to leave
- Reid's injuries have been poorly managed
- Keefe was a party boy
- Cloke wanted to leave
- We chose not to take Stewart
- Scharenberg is incredibly unlucky

I mean we have/had plenty of KPP.
Click to expand...

Of course it is Buckley.
 
Hine is partly to blame. I really don't know why he has neglected to draft KPP over the past years.

Logic suggests KPF badly fall away approaching age 30. The Cloke decline should of been forseen given what happen to Brereton, Carey, Tredrea, Jono Brown at the end of their careers. After trading away Dawes the decision was made to top up with Lynch and White rather than develop a KPF. For every 2 KPF at AFL level there should be another 2 developing at VFL. Darcy Moore is the only one that has come through and we lucked into that pick due to father-son.

For KPD we have been better but even still we have used late picks at drafting both Frost and Marsh. The latter played most of his junior career up forward rather than back. Even Lachlie Keeffe is a late speculative pick.

Instead we have used our early picks to trade in Treloar and Aish and chose to draft Sier and Wills despite already having developing mids in DeGoey and Broomhead, who ironically are probably more considered forwards nowdays given their lack of time in the midfield.

Flankers like Ramsay and Maynard while handy soldiers you have to wonder is it necessary to prioritise them over a KPP?
 
Bad Horse said:
In Hine we trust...or do we?

One of the emerging themes of recent seasons has been an increasing unbalance in our list as a whole. Our failure to invest quality picks in KPP's is now coming home to roost, and our fixation on questionably skilled inside types is also in the process of being unpicked.
Click to expand...

I don't think that it's due to unbalanced recruiting. I think that it's due to the decline/overrating of the stocks that we had on the list.

A couple of guys have fallen off a cliff and a couple have not kicked on as expected.

Forwards - If Cloke was the star that we thought he'd still be - tall forward stocks of Cloke, Moore, White with Cox developing wouldn't look too bad, especially as I think they thought Witts would develop and they'd go with 2 rucks The time would be right now to draft a young one to develop.

With defenders - I think they expected Brown to be good, Frost to have become good, likewise Keeffe and Marsh. Add those expectations to a fit Reid and you'd have healthy stocks.

Whether the incorrect expectations is the fault of the list manager or the coaching staff is only really known by the inner sanctum in terms of who makes the calls on current players and their futures. Likewise it could also be due to mediocre development coaching.
 
Bay Pie said:
LOL.

* I bet a search of the gameday threads, there'd be many posts from you bagging Brown, Frost and Marsh. Rightly so.
* Please update us on Reid's poor injury management. What was it that we actually did, didn't do ?
* Keeffe, certainly got caught out.
* You wanted Gault to play instead of Cloke during Pre-season, therefore safe to assume, you'd be scathing on Cloke this year. Rightly so.
* Stewart is not a KPP and will never be. Will be lucky to be in the AFL system in a few years.
* Scharenberg unlucky but not a KPP.

I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make here, outside of possibly proving yourself to be hypocritical.
Click to expand...

Huh? Brown? No. Outside the odd frustration from a mistake here or there, Brown, I was actually one of his few defenders on here. Even after he was dropped for ONE bad game against Kennedy. Frost? No f**king doubt I ripped in. But I'm not sure what the point is.

My post was about our key position players and why we don't or haven't had them. My opinion on said players is irrelevant. It's to do with why they're leaving or why they haven't been playing.
 
golazo said:
If this is what I'll be reading on here all throughout the pre-season... I think I'll stay away until round one.
Click to expand...
Then for the sake of your reading pleasure; hopefully round 1 next year goes a bit better than it did this year.
 
Not putting enough emphasis on kicking skills and high end talent has been the biggest issue with our drafting/trading if you ask me. Our list was crying out for kicking skills and for years running they kept bringing in guys who had kicking issues. It was like we were trying to be the anti-Hawthorn.
 
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