Analysis Derek Hine

[jmac70]

Jimmy would never be made.
Irish background.
You had to Sicilian going back.
Real greasball stuff.

That summed up in the movie why Jimmy couldn't be made.

Mate, have you got something decent at good odds tomorrow? I'm heading into the city early and might have a very rare bet.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Mate, have you got something decent at good odds tomorrow? I'm heading into the city early and might have a very rare bet.

I haven't looked yet, I'll likely have a look in the morning if i remember I'll let you know.
Or basically what I suggest, go oppposite.

You may know this but long standing board member Jack Kennedy has had a long interest in racing, he owned a horse that came 6th in a Melbourne cup, Tennessee Jack (1993). His registered colours are Black with white stripes, black sleeves and black cap.
Loves his Magpies.

But his best horse I'm quite sure, was Sky Heights who won the 1999 Caulfield Cup.
He was a part owner.

 

[cityslick1]

not only that
goldstein deadset monty to be a great player, caleb daniels best player in the 2015 championships perfect fit as a crumbing forward
my feeling s on Dawes is no Dawes no flag in 2010 watch the reply ,star until he broke his knuckle ,dead set shame took away his great hands on the lead.he was never the same after that.you under rate Brad dick imo apart from injury had it all. wouldnt say gilbert and swallow are that much ahead either of stanley , no right side cost the saints 2 flags, swallow always overrated .

you had me until the Dawes, brad dick & swallow comments. No pun actually intended...

If we recruited Riewoldt or Frawley instead of Brown, we wouldve won at least two flags, maybe three. Brown wouldve been replacable at full back, and Trav & Riewoldt wouldve destroyed sides

You wouldnt want Robbie Gray instead of Brad D? & are you serious about Stanley being as good as Swallow... has played 214 games, 5 years captain of his club & 3 x B&F's............. ok then

Swallow was questioned because of his disposal (& pace?) at the time of the draft, but all players that played against him said he was a gun. Recruiters even ask draftees who they really rate in their year, so I dont know why so many didnt actually listen to them & let him slip to the 40's...

 

[TradeDraft]

You have to draft to fill all needs, not bolster some and ignore others. Taking Freeman over McCarthy was a massive blunder, Cam might have settled in well and if he decided to bail, we could have cashed in for close to first rounders and have loaded up again. De Goey over Wright could be a big miss if Wright continues his development. I'm a big JDG advocate but would sacrifice him for Wright or Lever any day, or Ramsay for Membrey, or Aish for Adams.

Who's Adams?

I can see why we Picked Freeman as we needed speed and he was quick. He might of been a Gun IF he did not Destroy his Hammy in the 1st ever Game.

I agree Picking De Goey over both Wright and Lever where massive Stuff Up. Big Reason Hine Picked De Goey as he is a Close Family Friends of the De Goey's

 

[jackcass]

It's not so much the average talent Hine's pulled in over the years, but more so how unbalanced he has left this team, so we're basically fielding 12-13 midfielders each week, many of them who are the exact same type, some defenders and very few forwards. He's drafted three key position players in the national draft since 2006 - Moore, McLarty and Gault; that's key forwards AND defenders. Pathetic really.

I think he's only had two big hits since 2008 when he selected Beams and Sidebottom - they are Grundy (Pick 18) and Fasolo (Pick 45); everything else is either a slight pass or a failure. You might say Darcy Moore but he was dished up as a F/S anyway, and Luke Ball obviously had several years of experience already anyway.

I don't know why people appear to think the list this year has been planned. Over the draft-trade periods prior to 2016 we had Cloke, Brown, Frost, Gault, Reid, Witts, Grundy, had added White, Marsh, Cox and Moore, had even trialled a few specy types like Richmond and Whyatt. How many would have thought going into the 2016 season that only 5 of those 13 talls would still be at the club going into the 2016 draft and trade period? And let's not forget that our 2016 options were very limited off the back of the 2015 Treloar and Aish deals. Did well to add McLarty, Schade, Lynch, and McCarthy ar such short notice. We've even tried to bolster our medium-tall types with Patty K, Shaz, Howe, Crisp, Wills, and Sier.

On the big hits, firstly, it's a little harder to find them when you keep trading out of the 1st round of the draft, secondly, it's too early to make a call on a couple like Moore, DeGoey, Broomhead among others, and thirdly, Hine is responsible for list management and that includes the trading of players like Howe, Treloar, Adams, Dunn, Varcoe, WHE, Aish, and Mayne and a couple of those will be hits, and lastly, I'd call Elliott a hit, Krakouer as well.

 

[swoop42]

This thread title wouldn't look out of place on a Christian Brothers bulletin board.

 

[Jafo]

IF he been so bad for 10 Years. Why has he kept his Job?

I do agree his Drafting not been Flash but not been Terrible Either. The big problem as you said the Team is Badly Unbalanced.

His Trading been better then his Drafting

I suppose this is where it leaves open to people adding why are Bucks and Ed still at the top of the tree after all their time if not that good. In particular Bucks. A Hine special come draft time was always something to look forward to but that has lost its lustre the last few years. Especially last year. I did hear Gubby might have dealt those cards though.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I agree Picking De Goey over both Wright and Lever where massive Stuff Up. Big Reason Hine Picked De Goey as he is a Close Family Friends of the De Goey's

If we select people because of family friendships then may as well shut the place down.
That's too much of a conspiracy theory.
De Goey was picked because he was the legitimate best available at the time, much touted pre draft as early pick and because he'll be our elite on baller.
Wright or whoever else may have been good but if it was today I'd still be taking De Goey.

 

[cityslick1]

If we select people because of family friendships then may as well shut the place down.
That's too much of a conspiracy theory.
De Goey was picked because he was the legitimate best available at the time, much touted pre draft as early pick and because he'll be our elite on baller.
Wright or whoever else may have been good but if it was today I'd still be taking De Goey.

He's to date been riding high on his rep for picking Pendles and Beams... and smokeys like Goldsack & Elliott. & our unbalance has only now been fully exposed, with Cox and White dropping off, Darcy struggling with the #1 forward tag, Sinkers injured again, Ramsay struggling, Sier nowhere near an AFL player, Shaz and Aish struggling, De Goey showing that he has attitude problems, whilst Lever, Cripps and Merrett are all dominating and Wright looks like the perfect type of player to fill the gap in our forward line. We effectively bottomed out as part of our rebuild, but havent used the draft picks well enough to compete with the top 4 teams for a flag.

Like I said, its a tough gig... but the club and its supporters want to see inspiring decisions & a balanced list of quality players - whilst finding it hard to stomach 7+ years of hit and miss drafting & trading mistakes like Mayne, Wood, Young & Russell.

All is not totally lost though, as he can be a star again & earn his money by bringing in a gun forward for next year (rumoured to be in the pipeline for 2 years), Elliott, Sinclair and Ramsay can get back to 100%, Shaz builds his fitness and explosiveness, someone like Wills pops up to become a gun, and our core group of mids and defenders keep gel'ing & building on their recent form.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Derek has got a few right, but got plenty wrong. Its a tough caper, but these guys make or break their reputation on who they do and dont pick.

His best moments have obviously been Pendles, Beams, Reid, Thomas (early pick), Grundy (no brainer), Goldsack and lesser knowns like Phillips & Smith... but here is a list of some of the talent he has missed on...

Took Ryan Cook and Danny Stanley... ahead of Andrew Swallow, Bernie Vince and Sam Gilbert
Took Nathan Brown... ahead of Jack Riewoldt & James Frawley
Took Chris Dawes... ahead of Goldstein & Tippett
Took Brad Dick... ahead of Robbie Gray (ouch)
Cameron Wood... instead of Robbie Tarrant, Alex Rance or Harry Taylor
J Mac (RIP)... ahead of Jack Steven & Easton Wood
Toby Thoolen... ahead of Cale Hooker (wow)
Daniel Farmer... ahead of Jarryd Lyons, Paul Puopolo and Claye Beams (why?)
Jarrad Blight & Luke Rounds... ahead of Michael Walters
Jackson Paine… ahead of Lachie Neale & Tory Dickson
Shaz and Nathan Freeman ahead of Patrick Cripps & Zach Merrett

Zach Merrett would be a jet at Collingwood. Scharenberg at pick 6 might be wasted.

 

[DWil6]

Adel have a great FWD line. But stop SLOAN and that greatly reduces their ability to get the ball fwd, as they have very little depth in the midfield ( that's why they wanted, Gibbs.

Exactly. Imagine if the had a Dangerfield type, how good they would be!

 

[Scodog10]

He's to date been riding high on his rep for picking Pendles and Beams... and smokeys like Goldsack & Elliott. & our unbalance has only now been fully exposed, with Cox and White dropping off, Darcy struggling with the #1 forward tag, Sinkers injured again, Ramsay struggling, Sier nowhere near an AFL player, Shaz and Aish struggling, De Goey showing that he has attitude problems, whilst Lever, Cripps and Merrett are all dominating and Wright looks like the perfect type of player to fill the gap in our forward line. We effectively bottomed out as part of our rebuild, but havent used the draft picks well enough to compete with the top 4 teams for a flag.

Like I said, its a tough gig... but the club and its supporters want to see inspiring decisions & a balanced list of quality players - whilst finding it hard to stomach 7+ years of hit and miss drafting & trading mistakes like Mayne, Wood, Young & Russell.

All is not totally lost though, as he can be a star again & earn his money by bringing in a gun forward for next year (rumoured to be in the pipeline for 2 years), Elliott, Sinclair and Ramsay can get back to 100%, Shaz builds his fitness and explosiveness, someone like Wills pops up to become a gun, and our core group of mids and defenders keep gel'ing & building on their recent form.

In the main I agree with your POV, but the bolded isn't happening. He's a 24 yo inside mid, average clearance player, with no positional flexibility and lacks pace. I won't speculate any further on what he can do with his career other than to reiterate he won't go on to become a gun at the highest level!

 

[Soups]

In the main I agree with your POV, but the bolded isn't happening. He's a 24 yo inside mid, average clearance player, with no positional flexibility and lacks pace. I won't speculate any further on what he can do with his career other than to reiterate he won't go on to become a gun at the highest level!

Not to mention he is also injury prone. How many weeks off with a calf has he had since pre season? It would have to be close to 10.

 

[Scodog10]

Not to mention he is also injury prone. How many weeks off with a calf has he had since pre season? It would have to be close to 10.

Not sure re the calf, but I'm thinking 6 weeks. It was the quad that delayed his start to the season.

His best shot at making it, IMO, is to move forward. He's great at ground level for his size and he'd be stronger or more mobile than any tweener defender that goes to him. I just don't know if he's good enough overhead to make the transition? As a mid though he's Patty Cripps without the freaky clearance ability, which is ok, but not someone that I expect to become anything more than a role player.

 

[regpies]

He put together the bulk of the 2010 Premiership team......

Our issues at the moment are a result of GC, GWS and trading for Jolly (Ball as well but well worth getting those two).

Between 2009-2011 we hadn't had a selection inside the top 30 used on a young player who would be mid 20s in their prime right now. Jamie Elliott is basically the only one being part of the trade of our 1st rd pick. Even if we kept those picks in 2010-11 it would've been in the 20s. So trading for Krak, Clarke, Elliott made sense while we were in the premiership window.

Straight after that period we went hard at the draft with multiple top 25 picks then the two top 10. Not Hine's fault the two top 10 picks have been constantly injured, same with Broomhead. Kennedy is obviously a bust but thankfully Melbourne came along and saved the day for us there.

For all the picks GWS have had in the top 10 I think their success rate is extraordinarily low. If they were Richmond we would be bagging them relentlessly. It's just the fact they had so many picks they got a talent laden team.

 

[MISFITS]

I haven't looked yet, I'll likely have a look in the morning if i remember I'll let you know.
Or basically what I suggest, go oppposite.

You may know this but long standing board member Jack Kennedy has had a long interest in racing, he owned a horse that came 6th in a Melbourne cup, Tennessee Jack (1993). His registered colours are Black with white stripes, black sleeves and black cap.
Loves his Magpies.

But his best horse I'm quite sure, was Sky Heights who won the 1999 Caulfield Cup.
He was a part owner.

Last I checked was that Dr Jack was no longer on the board.
Maybe somebody knows which friend of Eddy's he got replaced by.

 

[35Daicos]

You may know this but long standing board member Jack Kennedy has had a long interest in racing, he owned a horse that came 6th in a Melbourne cup, Tennessee Jack (1993). His registered colours are Black with white stripes, black sleeves and black cap.
Loves his Magpies.

But his best horse I'm quite sure, was Sky Heights who won the 1999 Caulfield Cup.
He was a part owner.

Last I checked was that Dr Jack was no longer on the board.
Maybe somebody knows which friend of Eddy's he got replaced by.

I'm not sure who it was that replaced Jack Kennedy on the board but this confirms he's no longer there:- http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/club/the-board

Just to make Saintly feel better there is another keen racing person on the board!:- http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/club/the-board/paul-leeds

Paul Leeds

Leeds was elected to the VRC Committee in 2002 and maintains a keen interest in the Thoroughbred Racing and Breeding industry. He has raced a number of winners over the years including Marwong (five wins – Group One winner), Greyfille (four wins – Group 2 winner) and Be Reasonable (eight wins – Group Placed). He has had over 50 winners to date and last year bred and raced a listed winner at Flemington (Magic Bird).

Leeds was elected to the Collingwood board on 13 November 2007.

Edit: Collingwood have recruited one of Australia's leading chief executives to their board. The addition of Christine Holgate, British-born boss of booming ASX-listed supplements empire Blackmores, means two women will sit at the top table of power at the AFL's most iconic club for the first time.

More immediately, the arrival of a fresh face in the Pies' hierarchy will see Doctor Jack Kennedy named official club patron and draw the line at his 22 years' board service.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/collingwood-recruit-christine-holgate-one-of-australias-leading-ceos-20160201-gmj0dy.html

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I'm not sure who it was that replaced Jack Kennedy on the board but this confirms he's no longer there:- http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/club/the-board

Just to make Saintly feel better there is another keen racing person on the board!:- http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/club/the-board/paul-leeds

Paul Leeds

Leeds was elected to the VRC Committee in 2002 and maintains a keen interest in the Thoroughbred Racing and Breeding industry. He has raced a number of winners over the years including Marwong (five wins – Group One winner), Greyfille (four wins – Group 2 winner) and Be Reasonable (eight wins – Group Placed). He has had over 50 winners to date and last year bred and raced a listed winner at Flemington (Magic Bird).

Leeds was elected to the Collingwood board on 13 November 2007.

Edit: Collingwood have recruited one of Australia's leading chief executives to their board. The addition of Christine Holgate, British-born boss of booming ASX-listed supplements empire Blackmores, means two women will sit at the top table of power at the AFL's most iconic club for the first time.

More immediately, the arrival of a fresh face in the Pies' hierarchy will see Doctor Jack Kennedy named official club patron and draw the line at his 22 years' board service.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/collingwood-recruit-christine-holgate-one-of-australias-leading-ceos-20160201-gmj0dy.html

Folks yes I certainly know of Paul Leeds.
Oh yes knew Dr Jack was not on the board any more I meant more he was a long standing board member.

People may not know but at end on 1989 Dr Jack and stood for the board against Allan Mcallister as it were.
Might have been three candidates against a few Mcallister candidates whose term had expired but Allan was one of them. At the time it was essentially Jack v Allan.

But they all lived happily ever after.

1990 happy days

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Last I checked was that Dr Jack was no longer on the board.
Maybe somebody knows which friend of Eddy's he got replaced by.

As per above post,did know this. My wording may have been clumsy but was long standing.

 

[Darkyprotector]

you had me until the Dawes, brad dick & swallow comments. No pun actually intended...

If we recruited Riewoldt or Frawley instead of Brown, we wouldve won at least two flags, maybe three. Brown wouldve been replacable at full back, and Trav & Riewoldt wouldve destroyed sides

You wouldnt want Robbie Gray instead of Brad D? & are you serious about Stanley being as good as Swallow... has played 214 games, 5 years captain of his club & 3 x B&F's............. ok then

Swallow was questioned because of his disposal (& pace?) at the time of the draft, but all players that played against him said he was a gun. Recruiters even ask draftees who they really rate in their year, so I dont know why so many didnt actually listen to them & let him slip to the 40's...

well firstly i concur swallow was a bit harsh but ive always fely he was a bit overrated ,and didnt even wes fellows win a copeland
as mentioned watch the 2010 reply , Dawes best forward on the ground by a long way , great knock ons for a couple and kicked a couple ,damn shame he got injured to the most important body part for his game
dick could have been anything barring injuries but was the perfect prototype clever small forward who wouldhave suited the new AFL perfect
brown 2 knees could that have something to do with it
stanley injuries as well also point out You might have got a game for north too and i think we had a much better list at the time

 

[WatsamattaU]

Word is on the Melbourne board from those with sauces isthat Roos compelled Taylor to pull the trigger on Oliver early. Taylor initially rated him in the teens before taking another look at Roos' insistence.

I know for a fact that guys like Roos and McCartney are more responsible for Melbourne's rise than some may think.

 

[jackcass]

In the main I agree with your POV, but the bolded isn't happening. He's a 24 yo inside mid, average clearance player, with no positional flexibility and lacks pace. I won't speculate any further on what he can do with his career other than to reiterate he won't go on to become a gun at the highest level!

Sounds like Barlow. He's seems to have managed a reasonable career. Not every player will be a gun, in fact very few manage it.

 

[jackcass]

Not to mention he is also injury prone. How many weeks off with a calf has he had since pre season? It would have to be close to 10.

Wasn't that Will's 1st significant injury? He has actually returned and then coped another minor injury, returned again Saturday. That would hardly make him injury prone.

 

[loki04]

I'll get back to you when I find out who Jason Taylor is.

He was Hines number 1 recruiter at pies before Melbourne poached him to be head recruiter/list manager at the Dees.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-08-09/taylor-rapt-with-new-recruiting-role

DESPITE Melbourne enduring a remarkably difficult season as club, first year national recruiting manager Jason Taylor says he’s relished his inaugural season with the Demons.

The former Collingwood recruiter joined Melbourne in January this year, after becoming an experienced AFL recruiter. Taylor, who was right-hand man to the highly respected recruiter Derek Hine at Collingwood, said the fact that Melbourne had put together a strong recruiting team, including full-timers Todd Viney, Kelly O’Donnell, Gary Burleigh, Tim Lamb and Darren Farrugia, had made his first season with the club an exciting one from a recruiting perspective.

“Nothing’s too much for them – the guys are always willing to work hard, and we work well together,” he told melbournefc.com.au. “We get on well and we communicate, which is critical in what we do.

We’re all on the same page, so it’s been really enjoyable from that aspect,” he said. “On a personal level, I’ve got my head down and am just focused on the job ahead and navigating through the year to try and find the best available talent in the national draft.” Taylor said the work that he and his team put into identifying the next Demons was “incredible”.

“It involves an enormous amount of travel to view live games throughout the country. Then you’re reporting on players, who are assessed over those games, over the weekend.

“Throughout the week, we simply review the weekend’s assessments to assist us with planning ahead to the following week. Taylor said there was some genuine talent on offer this year, but he added that the scrutiny of the recruiting industry – on the talent identifiers and the players – was simply greater.

“There is a level of expectation that’s probably thrust upon draft picks – not just from the media, but the public interest is growing each year. That puts a level of expectation on the player, which can be a bit hasty,” he said.

“If you look back on history and some of the champions of the game, their first 30 to 70 games – there wasn’t that expectation on them, even some of the elite players.

If anything, that expectation needs to be doused a little bit. “That might be harder on the athletes coming in, and you might not always see peak performance. We have to pick people who will prosper through a range of their personalities.”

Taylor said there was a pool of around 160 players Melbourne had monitored this year, which included watching matches live, plus “a helluva lot of vision during the week”. “It’s pretty much non-stop and you could work 24/7 for what you need to be covering, but it’s important that you work as a team, delegate and support each other. It’s intense mental work, because you take in a lot of information,” he said.

“From there, we go through the interview process, where we interview the players, and that’s ongoing from the start to middle and latter part of the year.

“There are heavier periods, but we need to make sure we research behind the scenes as well.

It’s not just about viewing the player.” Taylor said there is an “enormous amount of work” that goes into selecting a player, and he works closely with Viney and Josh Mahoney in list management areas, plus pro scout O’Donnell.

“We need to pick the right player to prosper at AFL level, because it is really demanding and getting more demanding every year.

The key element of that is being prepared and not to make decisions on a whim,” he said.

 

[loki04]

Word is on the Melbourne board from those with sauces isthat Roos compelled Taylor to pull the trigger on Oliver early. Taylor initially rated him in the teens before taking another look at Roos' insistence.

Roos touched on it on fox footy, Taylor had him as one of the players he was looking at, at that pick. Roos asked him where he thought he would land and Taylor said "early to late teens", Roos replied "well it's going to be the mother of all drafts if there is 13 kids better then him".

Taylor then pulled the trigger when he did.