Did the AFL drop the ball on women's footy?

[Consolaçao]

Given the ratings and the amount of public attention the Matildas have received in recent weeks, I'm wondering whether the AFL stuffed up by being too cautious with the launch of the AFLW?

Back in 2016, the Hampson-Hardeman Cup between the Bulldogs and the Dees was the most-watched game in Melbourne across the entire home and away season.

Broadcast live on Channel Seven during the bye week before the finals series, it was watched by 1.05 million people.

There was a groundswell of goodwill that led the AFL to launch the AFLW competition.

The AFL had a choice.

It could have opted to go for a fully professional competition from the get-go. This would have attracted the best athletes, and allowed the players to focus full-time on training.

Or it could take the the cheaper, more cautious approach and have a limited semi-professional competition played at VFL/WAFL/SANFL grounds, where the players all need second jobs.

The AFL chose the latter option.

In hindsight, was it the right call?

Or did it stuff up a multi-billion-dollar once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to corner the market for women's sport in Australia, squandering a lot of goodwill in the process?

Mistakes are inevitable with these things.

I think dispersing what is (for now at least) a very thin talent pool across 18 teams has led to the creation of a poor quality and potentially very expensive competition. I'd love to have seen an 8-team comp involving Vic metro, Vic country, SA, WA, QLD, NSW/ACT, NT, TAS. 14 game season and much higher quality. And also reflecting the fact that the women's game is far more national. Why have more than half of the AFLW players based in Victoria?

As you say, there was a heap of goodwill towards AFLW (and women's sport in general) that seems to have been mostly squandered. The Matildas are now revelling in that.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Maybe. I still think people don't truly get the physical gap that exists by the teenage years. It's gargantuan.

agreed

it is a moot point. These girls skills are very good. The difference is height, strength, power and speed. The boys would use that to win.

I do think comparisons are mostly pointless. They may play the same sport, but they play it differently. the Under 15 boys would thrash the girls. But I Prefer to watch the women play as it is a level playing field with similar characteristics and elite skills.

Most of the people who use comparisons use it as a base for bashing the women sport. These are mostly sexist idiots who don't realise how much better the pro sports women are better than them at sport. There was a laughable study that found 1/8 men thought they could take a point off Serena. Yeah, you could, if she let you.

 

[Footy Smarts]

The AFL were willing to pour tens of millions into the cash infernos of GWS and Gold Coast despite very little interest in Aussie rules.

But they couldn't put together the scraps required to pay the initial AFLW players a full time living wage (say rookie AFL wage) during the couple of month long season. Nor could they find the funds to provide health insurance to the players that were being paid peanuts.

The bank account has no limit when it comes to Demetriou or McLachlan's vanity projects. But half the population having access to a professional league? Let's not rush into anything that might cost some money.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Why have more than half of the AFLW players based in Victoria?

...because that's where most of the best players are from. That's why teams like the Suns and Swans are extremely reliant on players from Victoria.

And that's why your idea of 8 teams, with only 2 in Vic, is ridiculous and would be far more expensive than the current arrangement.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Didn't the Matildas play some junior boys team a few years ago and get flogged?

The gap in soccer is even bigger its just womens football is a more pleasing and different spectacle then AFLW.

Matilda's lost 7-0 against under 15 boys.

Socceroos would win 30 - 0, only beaten by lost time due to laughing too much.

People need to stop comparing womens' sports to mens' sports. Much like Heavyweight boxers dont fight Super Featherweights, or adults dont play against children.

As for the Matildas, they will go back into obscurity in a few weeks, much like AFLW disappears very quickly at the end of each season.

Final thought, comparing a single one-off, one month global competition with a domestic, 12? week long national competition is silly.

Do we compare World Cup with A League?

Of course a mens team would beat them, but male strength and speed plays a part. AFL W the players can't even kick 20 metres accurately some of them, some of them are scared to receive the ball. Sometimes a team can score 1 or 2 points for a match.

Matildas can pass the ball to each other decently, shoot decently, dribble decently, defend decently. A lot different to AFLW where many of the players are terrible and should not be "pro" athletes

 

[Foreign Legion]

Biggest issue is whether you like it or not to put it bluntly people watch sport for entertainment.

Who wants to watch an AFLW game with let’s say 6-8 goals at most and that’s at absolute best. Been saying it for 2 years, reduce the size of the field, reduce the players (take two mids out both sides). Get to a stage where 10+ goals a side is the bare minimum.

Then let’s compare to the Matilda’s who score goals and play attractive exciting football (soccer). They also have elite players in their side playing overseas and are well known not just Kerr. Without looking it up can anyone name more than 4-5 AFLW players? I’m struggling to name that many. There’s the issue.

Yep I agree.

I don't watch a lot of the games because who wants to watch games where it is rare 10 goals are scored by the winner. North Sydney Oval is about the right size for AFLW. I reckon the max length for AFLW should be about 120 metres. More goals might result in more big name goalkickers etc.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

They can easily get it to 10, 20 or even 30 goals a side by changing the field dimensions. Won't make it a better product, just a ridiculous flow-free stop-start game. Smaller ground equals more congestion.

Sooner or later, people making the "just take two players out of both sides" suggestion will realise the league has already done that. Longer games and less ugly tactics would be far more effective (and at least one of those things will be partially implemented, with an ~8 minute increase coming in this season).

Whether you like it or not goals make it attractive and that's the bottom line. No one wants to watch a game where 4-6 goals are kicked, and if they do it's a very very niche market.

They need to limit the congestion, get the ball in the open and if that means more frees so be it. Less ugly tactics, you hit the nail as to why it's still a niche sport still. It's very ugly, coaches should almost be forced to abandon these tactics, and that means ups pay some frees. Who cares if they are soft just get the thing out of there, last thing you want is the ball stuck in the middle.

If they have taken 2 players out, take another one out, the less players in around the ball the better let the girls use their running.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Yep I agree.

I don't watch a lot of the games because who wants to watch games where it is rare 10 goals are scored by the winner. North Sydney Oval is about the right size for AFLW. I reckon the max length for AFLW should be about 120 metres. More goals might result in more big name goalkickers etc.

I compare it to womens golf who play off a shorter tee, etc. No one even cares and it's made the sport exciting to watch. Yeah I like NSO as a good comparison and one that can be used, get them scoring 10 plus if not 12 goals a game

 

[Teen Wolf]

Whether you like it or not goals make it attractive and that's the bottom line. No one wants to watch a game where 4-6 goals are kicked, and if they do it's a very very niche market. They need to limit the congestion, get the ball in the open and if that means more frees so be it.

Scoring is far more complicated than a matter of ground size, whether you like it or not.

If you make the ground so small to engineer higher scoring, the number of knee injuries and concussions will skyrocket. Paying more free kicks isn't going to change that.

Recycle catchphrases all you like, but as I've pointed out, last season's low-scoring grand final in November greatly out-rated every other women's domestic league in 2022, including the previous AFLW grand final which took place earlier that year in April.

 

[Hoops]

No sport in the world can offer that special moment like the world game, that 'goal' is so special and it's why it's the biggest code on the planet and always will be.

It's the biggest code on the planet due to it's accessibility and coming from colonising nations at the time when the industrial revolution meant the masses started having time to pursue leisure activities.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Scoring is far more complicated than a matter of ground size, whether you like it or not.

If you make the ground so small to engineer higher scoring, the number of knee injuries and concussions will skyrocket. Paying more free kicks isn't going to change that.

Recycle catchphrases all you like, but as I've pointed out, last season's low-scoring grand final in November greatly out-rated every other women's domestic league in 2022, including the previous AFLW grand final which took place earlier that year in April.

Keep it low scoring and you will lose not gain supporters. People watch for goals and you want players kicking multiple goals and bags of goals. You keep pretending the AFLW is great, they can barely kick it 30m and that’s generous to a lot.

Now either you decrease the size of the ground or your decrease congestion and out measures in place maybe one could be a 6-6-6 at ALL stoppages not just centre bounces.

 

[candyapple]

Back in 2016, the Hampson-Hardeman Cup between the Bulldogs and the Dees was the most-watched game in Melbourne across the entire home and away season.

If the AFLW standard was close to what this match was then their wouldn't be a problem with tv ratings + crowds imo

however they rushed the AFLW comp, should have been a 5 year buildup to get the players up to speed, seriously watching people who can't kick a drop punt is painful viewing. The talent level is slowly improving but expansion has been a disaster, should have begun as a state based comp, SA,WA,QLD,VICM,VICC,NSW and maybe Tas.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Keep it low scoring and you will lose not gain supporters. People watch for goals and you want players kicking multiple goals and bags of goals. You keep pretending the AFLW is great, they can barely kick it 30m and that’s generous to a lot.

It's gained 75k members in six years, and that will continue to grow (but, so too will scoring as matches get longer).

Didn't say it was great--the coaching, umpiring and broadcasting of the league is particularly poor. But there are some great footballers on every team, mixed in with heaps of awesome athletes and amazingly courageous players. I'm only pretending to care about what you think, nothing else.

If the AFLW standard was close to what this match was then their wouldn't be a problem with tv ratings + crowds imo

however they rushed the AFLW comp, should have been a 5 year buildup to get the players up to speed, seriously watching people who can't kick a drop punt is painful viewing. The talent level is slowly improving but expansion has been a disaster, should have begun as a state based comp, SA,WA,QLD,VICM,VICC,NSW and maybe Tas.

Watch one of those pre-2017 exhibition games back-to-back with a typical 2022 game and you'd quickly realise how foolish that assessment is.

 

[WillHayward]

Given the ratings and the amount of public attention the Matildas have received in recent weeks, I'm wondering whether the AFL stuffed up by being too cautious with the launch of the AFLW?

Back in 2016, the Hampson-Hardeman Cup between the Bulldogs and the Dees was the most-watched game in Melbourne across the entire home and away season.

Broadcast live on Channel Seven during the bye week before the finals series, it was watched by 1.05 million people.

There was a groundswell of goodwill that led the AFL to launch the AFLW competition.

The AFL had a choice.

It could have opted to go for a fully professional competition from the get-go. This would have attracted the best athletes, and allowed the players to focus full-time on training.

Or it could take the the cheaper, more cautious approach and have a limited semi-professional competition played at VFL/WAFL/SANFL grounds, where the players all need second jobs.

The AFL chose the latter option.

In hindsight, was it the right call?

Or did it stuff up a multi-billion-dollar once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to corner the market for women's sport in Australia, squandering a lot of goodwill in the process?

Delusional stuff.

Entirely disrespectful to Matildas who have been building up for decades

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Womens soccer at all levels has been around far longer than the women's afl.
No ball dropped yet, and also no meed to compare the 2. It's not about which sport is superior. Just play and follow what you want

 

[WillHayward]

I can name dozens of AFLW players, and maybe 5-10 Matilda’s.

Had you asked me 3 weeks ago it would have been 1 Matilda

I can't name any AFLW players and I can name plenty of Matildas.

And I've been to Matildas games before 2023.

But I guess I havent been stuck living in Melbourne my entire life.

Surely you had heard of Lisa De Vanna?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I can't name any AFLW players and I can name plenty of Matildas.

And I've been to Matildas games before 2023.

But I guess I havent been stuck living in Melbourne my entire life.

Surely you had heard of Lisa De Vanna?

Honestly I’d be struggling to name a couple, now either that’s on the marketing department or lack of OR they don’t have the profile to bother about marketing them

 

[Teen Wolf]

Surely you had heard of Lisa De Vanna?

Yeah that's the jealous chick who scratched, hit, bit and kicked Ellyse Perry for an entire match.

Talk about dropping the ball. We'd be going for 3 FIFA WWCs in a row now if soccer didn't drop the ball by letting one of its brightest stars wander off to cricket!

 

[LukeParkerno1]

It's gained 75k members in six years, and that will continue to grow (but, so too will scoring as matches get longer).

Didn't say it was great--the coaching, umpiring and broadcasting of the league is particularly poor. But there are some great footballers on every team, mixed in with heaps of awesome athletes and amazingly courageous players. I'm only pretending to care about what you think, nothing else.

Each to their own can't see it in it's current state and it's going to max out quickly. People don't want to watch 70% of the competition not make a simple drop punt from 20-30m away. For what it is the broadcasting has been more than fine what do you realistically want there, games are televised. The coaching is the big one, it's abysmal and ultra defensive, every coach talks about defence. They could do worse and reward teams more for positive play, positive means kicking goals. Umpiring is bad, it's terrible regardless of what level AFL is bad enough there, they should be paying more frees, if a player is holding it in, play a free not a ball up, anything to open the game up.

 

[OniAu]

Honestly I’d be struggling to name a couple, now either that’s on the marketing department or lack of OR they don’t have the profile to bother about marketing them

Bit of a weak argument. I cant name any NRL players. I just dont have an interest in the sport.

Womens game just needs to persisted with , its in its infancy. Just like Suns and Giants were when they were starting out. Takes time

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Bit of a weak argument. I cant name any NRL players. I just dont have an interest in the sport.

Womens game just needs to persisted with , its in its infancy. Just like Suns and Giants were when they were starting out. Takes time

Marketing players brings more fans in. That's literally 101 in Marketing. Clear as day they have expanded way too quick but that's another thing, and they won't go back on it. Least they can do is try and market a player on each side, start a podcast, whatever, do something. You want the game to grow, then use all measures both on field (and this means coaching, umpiring etc) and off field (marketing, etc). Players have to take some of the load here otherwise it won't grow.

 

[faible]

Marketing players brings more fans in. That's literally 101 in Marketing. Clear as day they have expanded way too quick but that's another thing, and they won't go back on it. Least they can do is try and market a player on each side, start a podcast, whatever, do something. You want the game to grow, then use all measures both on field (and this means coaching, umpiring etc) and off field (marketing, etc). Players have to take some of the load here otherwise it won't grow.

Remember when they tried to market stars like Moana Hope who ended up being a bit of a flop at AFLW level?

Tayla Harris has been 'ok' but not an out and out superstar and was another well marketed name pre-AFLW.

Compare that to Sam Kerr who's been inside the best half dozen players on the planet for the last few years, basically like having an Australian Mbappe or Neymar level player, a genuine superstar of the game.

 

[OniAu]

Marketing players brings more fans in. That's literally 101 in Marketing. Clear as day they have expanded way too quick but that's another thing, and they won't go back on it. Least they can do is try and market a player on each side, start a podcast, whatever, do something. You want the game to grow, then use all measures both on field (and this means coaching, umpiring etc) and off field (marketing, etc). Players have to take some of the load here otherwise it won't grow.

The obvious answer is there , ride it off the back of the mens game. Play it as curtain raisers. Feel like the best example of not what to follow is WNBA , they tried to make it a seperate thing altogether. Which it is , thats fine. But you need to pay respect to the mens game that paved the way and not detach yourself from it.

 

[candyapple]

It's gained 75k members in six years, and that will continue to grow (but, so too will scoring as matches get longer).

Didn't say it was great--the coaching, umpiring and broadcasting of the league is particularly poor. But there are some great footballers on every team, mixed in with heaps of awesome athletes and amazingly courageous players. I'm only pretending to care about what you think, nothing else.


Watch one of those pre-2017 exhibition games back-to-back with a typical 2022 game and you'd quickly realise how foolish that assessment is.

They standard has gone backwards from then, its currently unwatchable, too many teams.

 

[Crowbling]

World Cup tickets were $10 for regular games, $20 for finals.

It would run at a huge loss if not being heavily subsidised by the men.

You conveniently quoted starting prices for obstructed view seats!

https://www.fifa.com/fifaplus/en/articles/ticket-prices-fwwc23-en