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Who has shown to be a better coach in their first few years. Hardwick or Hird?
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Dimma v Hird
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Next year will tell a story. With Richmond's recruiting recently pushing for a bit more depth they should make finals. It will be interesting to see how Essendon respond after this year. I can't honestly split them but Dimma is obviously going very well.
The Prosecutor
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Hird's two seasons as coach have been more successful than any of Hardwick's three as Richmond coach.
Hardwick is criminally overrated on BF and by Richmond supporters in general.
I'm not saying he's a bad coach, I genuinely have no idea, but he hasn't done a lot beyond stay in the bottom ten, turn the list over, and collect draft picks.
Yet to exceed Wallace's win-loss percentage, yet to finish higher on the ladder than Wallace, and yet to be in the eight at any point in any season of his tenure. No doubt people will point to their wins over Hawthorn and Sydney, yet Wallace also defeated Hawthorn in a grand final year in '08 and engineered a win against a very good Adelaide side.
In 2013 there will be intense pressure on both coaches to perform, but I think the pressure is hotter on Hardwick and should the Tigers stumble, considering their relatively easy fixture and it being Hardwick's fourth year at the helm, he could well be the first coach sacked.
I'm not saying he's a bad coach, I genuinely have no idea, but he hasn't done a lot beyond stay in the bottom ten, turn the list over, and collect draft picks.
Yet to exceed Wallace's win-loss percentage, yet to finish higher on the ladder than Wallace, and yet to be in the eight at any point in any season of his tenure. No doubt people will point to their wins over Hawthorn and Sydney, yet Wallace also defeated Hawthorn in a grand final year in '08 and engineered a win against a very good Adelaide side.
In 2013 there will be intense pressure on both coaches to perform, but I think the pressure is hotter on Hardwick and should the Tigers stumble, considering their relatively easy fixture and it being Hardwick's fourth year at the helm, he could well be the first coach sacked.
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We are not talking about which team has been better, it is which coach has been better. Hird got a list that was instantly a few years ahead of Richmonds. Hardwick got rid of most of the list in the first 2 years.
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Collect draft picks? You mean the draft picks in the draft were GWS and Gold Coast had already taken the best players out and then got the best picks in the draft?
In 3 years he has got rid of most our list and know brought us up to a point where we can contend with every team.
The Prosecutor
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Yet Hird took over after 2010.
A season in which Richmond were a better team then Essendon.
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How? By round 9 we hadn't won a game, the media said we wouldn't win one all year and bookies had already paid out on us winning the wooden spoon. And you finished above us on the ladder.
And then when Hird came in he basically kept the same developed list, he didn't turn it over like Hardwick
The Prosecutor
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Fair enough, we did finish with one extra win then you.
Though we did lose to the wooden spooners twice that year.
Still, it's hardly fair to say Essendon's was a list a few years ahead of Richmond when Hird took over.
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Hird took over Knights list, there was no clean out, so Essendon lost is from the start of Knights. Hardwick completely leaned out the list, so our list is from 2010
The Prosecutor
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Okay, so by your own admission, Hird has taken a list that finished 14th the year before and manged to turn it into a top 8 team within one year.
What Hardwick has done what exactly?
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Dimma will see out his contract, barring some unforeseen calamity eg. ending the season with 7 losses on the trot.
The Prosecutor
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Well, he's a Richmond coach, so I'm going to guess 5 years?
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He is contracted until the end of 2014.
bombermick
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I like Hardwick's obsession with recruiting good kicks, learning from the Hawks. Neither coach has done anything, but Hird's teams have outperformed Dimma both years.
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Hardwick. I think he's reshaped that club in a really positive way. Richmond is the hardest job in footy this century, and DH has them playing good footy, has drafted well and has developed a good team.
Hird comes out blazing, with his multi-million coaching team, but has no idea how to coach a year out on current form
Hird comes out blazing, with his multi-million coaching team, but has no idea how to coach a year out on current form
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The Prosecutor
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But I thought Essendon always did that?
forwardflanker
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Hird and by a fair way as well. Essendon have pretty ordinary list lacking in top end draft talent yet have managed to do way more than Richmond in recent years who have been harvesting blue chip picks for the last 15 years.
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Try to address the point.
The Prosecutor
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It is addressing the point.
It's showing that end of seasons fade outs have happened under numerous coaches, meaning that it's a fitness issue rather than a coaching issue.
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I think it has something to do with the windy hill surface. I know everyone loves to bag us about the bowls club not letting us expand but from what I've heard all we wanted to do was leave.
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Hird took an under performing team that was too lazy and made them reasonably interested. Don't you remember Knights last year? All the players stopped playing for him, so when a club legend becomes coach they actually start playing for him.
Hardwick has brought a team that was predicted to lose every single game and was called "the worst team since Fitzroy" to a team that can now contend with every single team in 3 years
