Dimma v Hird

[TiggerMan22]

Hird and by a fair way as well. Essendon have pretty ordinary list lacking in top end draft talent yet have managed to do way more than Richmond in recent years who have been harvesting blue chip picks for the last 15 years.

Hardwick has only been coaching for 3 years so why does the last 15 matter? There is only something like 15 players left from pre-Hardwick anyway and since Hardwick has been here we have got f**ked in the draft by Gold Coast and GWS.

 

[forwardflanker]

Hardwick has only been coaching for 3 years so why does the last 15 matter? There is only something like 15 players left from pre-Hardwick anyway and since Hardwick has been here we have got f**ked in the draft by Gold Coast and GWS.

That's probably 15 blue chip draft picks though . Anyway I'm not saying Hardwick has done a bad job or anything. I'm just saying Hird has overachieved given the players at his disposal. Having said that it's difficult to compare because I think they're both coaching for different objectives and what I mean by that is that Hardwick has the talent and potential at his disposal to be really aiming to win or get very close to winning a premiership in the next 3-4 years. In contrast, with the players available and their more limited scope for potential, Hird is really coaching for his side to make the 8. I highly doubt we are going to see Essendon improve in the next few years to even be top four let alone a legitimate contender. The flip side of this is that Essendon's goal is more immediate and that's why they've had better results under Hird. Whereas Hardwick is working for something more long term and ultimately way more valuable so he deserves more time to attain that goal before being judged.

 

[bombermick]

That's probably 15 blue chip draft picks though . Anyway I'm not saying Hardwick has done a bad job or anything. I'm just saying Hird has overachieved given the players at his disposal. Having said that it's difficult to compare because I think they're both coaching for different objectives and what I mean by that is that Hardwick has the talent and potential at his disposal to be really aiming to win or get very close to winning a premiership in the next 3-4 years. In contrast, with the players available and their more limited scope for potential, Hird is really coaching for his side to make the 8. I highly doubt we are going to see Essendon improve in the next few years to even be top four let alone a legitimate contender. The flip side of this is that Essendon's goal is more immediate and that's why they've had better results under Hird. Whereas Hardwick is working for something more long term and ultimately way more valuable so he deserves more time to attain that goal before being judged.

Interesting theory. I'd agree Richmond's very top-end is better, but Sydney showed it's a team's bottom end that wins flags - as long as there's enough good top-end talent. Surely if each team's A-graders (as well as potential A-graders) were listed, the results wouldn't be astounding either way.

 

[forwardflanker]

Interesting theory. I'd agree Richmond's very top-end is better, but Sydney showed it's a team's bottom end that wins flags - as long as there's enough good top-end talent. Surely if each team's A-graders (as well as potential A-graders) were listed, the results wouldn't be astounding either way.

Fwiw even though I don't think they're a realistic chance to win a premiership any time soon I respect Essendon a lot more than most other clubs for the way they've gone about rebuilding. Although not making finals often they've managed to do a decent job of rebuilding a pretty ordinary list whilst remaining for the most part competitive and not being truly pathetic like so many other clubs have in recent years. Goddard was a great get for the bombers but they are still a few midfielders off being anywhere near it imo and I can't see where they're going to come from.

I'd give Richmond a slight edge in terms of the A graders they have at the moment but the scope for improvement in the next few years from their best 12 or so is pretty massive. Their biggest problem is going to be getting the bottom 6-8 up to scratch which as you said is crucial.

 

[juss]

Hird and by a fair way as well. Essendon have pretty ordinary list lacking in top end draft talent yet have managed to do way more than Richmond in recent years who have been harvesting blue chip picks for the last 15 years.

Hold on what exactly is way more?

 

[bombermick]

Fwiw even though I don't think they're a realistic chance to win a premiership any time soon I respect Essendon a lot more than most other clubs for the way they've gone about rebuilding. Although not making finals often they've managed to do a decent job of rebuilding a pretty ordinary list whilst remaining for the most part competitive and not being truly pathetic like so many other clubs have in recent years. Goddard was a great get for the bombers but they are still a few midfielders off being anywhere near it imo and I can't see where they're going to come from.

I'd give Richmond a slight edge in terms of the A graders they have at the moment but the scope for improvement in the next few years from their best 12 or so is pretty massive. Their biggest problem is going to be getting the bottom 6-8 up to scratch which as you said is crucial.

No disputing we're still a few mids short. Still a lot of hope about it. Hoping Kavanagh fulfils his pre-draft promise. Ditto Melksham, and Heppell needs to improve his contested ball. Myers needs to stay fit.

A chance to pinch one with the likes of Richmond and North when others slip away, but everything needs to go right. Hopefully there's a Swan or Hannebery in this draft ...

 

[boncer34]

Hird took an under performing team that was too lazy and made them reasonably interested. Don't you remember Knights last year? All the players stopped playing for him, so when a club legend becomes coach they actually start playing for him.

Hardwick has brought a team that was predicted to lose every single game and was called "the worst team since Fitzroy" to a team that can now contend with every single team in 3 years

Mate if you just wanted a Hardwick wank fest you should've posted this on the Richmond board.

Wallace has shown more then Hardwick at this stage.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Mate if you just wanted a Hardwick wank fest you should've posted this on the Richmond board.

Wallace has shown more then Hardwick at this stage.

What the **** are you talking about? I'm just pointing you moron.
Richmond and Essendon are about the same level at the moment.
Knights took over in 2007. Hird didn't change the list, so it is now a 5 year old list. Richmonds is only 3 years old. Which shows that Hardwick is a good coach and done a lot more than Wallace ever did

 

[boncer34]

What the **** are you talking about? I'm just pointing you moron.
Richmond and Essendon are about the same level at the moment.
Knights took over in 2007. Hird didn't change the list, so it is now a 5 year old list. Richmonds is only 3 years old. Which shows that Hardwick is a good coach and done a lot more than Wallace ever did

We've lost 15 players from 2010. How's that not changing the list? At the end of 2 seasons he's taken out more then a third of the list.

Wallace got more then 10 wins a season. How many times has "Dimma" done that?

 

[TiggerMan22]

We've lost 15 players from 2010. How's that not changing the list? At the end of 2 seasons he's taken out more then a third of the list.

Wallace got more then 10 wins a season. How many times has "Dimma" done that?

We lost more than 15 just in 2010. Each season you lose an average of 5-7 players, so Hird is just doing the average.

 

[boncer34]

We lost more than 15 just in 2010. Each season you lose an average of 5-7 players, so Hird is just doing the average.

So dropping over a third of the list in 2 years isn't considered to be changing the list?

 

[EasternTiger]

Poll should probably be changed to Dimma vs Hird/Bomber, to more accurately reflect the unique coaching structures in place at Essendon.

 

[TiggerMan22]

So dropping over a third of the list in 2 years isn't considered to be changing the list?

Nope. That is just natural, all teams do that.
Getting rid of a a third of list in 1 year like Hardwick did is changing the list

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I really liked Hardwicks composure near the end of this game.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Hardwick's last two years as coach: 40.9% win/loss percentage
Hird's last two years as coach: 48.9% win/loss percentage

Pretty conclusive I would have thought.

 

[TiggerMan22]

I really liked Hardwicks composure near the end of this game.

What are you talking about? It is the players that didn't have the composure not the coach, you idiot

 

[TiggerMan22]

Hardwick's last two years as coach: 40.9% win/loss percentage
Hird's last two years as coach: 48.9% win/loss percentage

Pretty conclusive I would have thought.

Hardwicks list: 3 years old
Hirds list: 6 years old.

Pretty conslusive I'd say since the teams are now equal

 

[LeatherPoison]

i wonder how James Hird would have gone if he was Richmonds coach .. or how Hardwick would have gone coaching essendon in the last 3 years ..

 

[Jesse Custer]

i wonder how James Hird would have gone if he was Richmonds coach .. or how Hardwick would have gone coaching essendon in the last 3 years ..

Wasting your time.

 

[LeatherPoison]

Wasting your time.

just wondering

 

[Dwight Schrute]

What are you talking about? It is the players that didn't have the composure not the coach, you idiot

Please refrain from using personal insults.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Pretty conslusive I'd say since the teams are now equal

6 of your best 8 players were drafted under Wallace. Hardwick has done nothing.

 

[DTRAIN87]

6 of your best 8 players were drafted under Wallace. Hardwick has done nothing.

Mark Thompson is the real head coach at Essendon. Am I doin it right?

 

[Jobe Watson]

Mark Thompson is the real head coach at Essendon. Am I doin it right?

No, because what you said is false.

 

[EasternTiger]

Mark Thompson is the real head coach at Essendon. Am I doin it right?

They took it in turns this season. Bomber coached the first half of the year, and Hird took the reins in the second.