Buddy Franklin vs Wayne Carey

[Makeshift Park]

Buddy was an outstanding player, but Carey was a cheat code.

You could spray the ball inside fifty into a cluster of waiting opposition, you could triple-team him with your biggest defenders, you could belt him so hard he’d be out for three weeks under modern concussion rules, and time and again he’d somehow turn it into a goal scoring opportunity.

 

[Linda Lovelace]

Carey has become this bizarre purity test where people think if you don't rate him the GOAT, you don't know football. People either can't think for themselves or fear retaliation from the hive mind if they dare point out some basic facts about him.

Carey was a great player and one of the best contested marks the game has seen. One of. And that's the only thing about him that was truly elite historically.

He was ultimately a career forward who isn't even in the top 20 for goals all time, and probably not even in the top 50 for average goals per game (I couldn't find a table that went passed 30). And it is not exclusively traditional full forwards above him.

And here's the kicker - do you know which player holds the record for the most marks inside 50 in a season? Buddy, in his early days before he started pushing up the ground more. Even if Buddy wasn't the contested marking beast that Carey was, the ability to gain space on opponents isn't somehow a negative.

Buddy kicked more goals in an era where players kicked less goals and was simply a more versatile player.

 

[Lunchtime]

Carey has become this bizarre purity test where people think if you don't rate him the GOAT, you don't know football. People either can't think for themselves or fear retaliation from the hive mind if they dare point out some basic facts about him.

Carey was a great player and one of the best contested marks the game has seen. One of. And that's the only thing about him that was truly elite historically.

He was ultimately a career forward who isn't even in the top 20 for goals all time, and probably not even in the top 50 for average goals per game (I couldn't find a table that went passed 30). And it is not exclusively traditional full forwards above him.

And here's the kicker - do you know which player holds the record for the most marks inside 50 in a season? Buddy, in his early days before he started pushing up the ground more. Even if Buddy wasn't the contested marking beast that Carey was, the ability to gain space on opponents isn't somehow a negative.

Buddy kicked more goals in an era where players kicked less goals and was simply a more versatile player.

Carey averaged 2.67 goals per game which is still quite good. As for overall marks he averaged 6.73 and contested marks he averaged 2.22, other players have averaged more on all 3 catagories.

Carey is still a champion though.

 

[Mr Meow]

Carey has become this bizarre purity test where people think if you don't rate him the GOAT, you don't know football. People either can't think for themselves or fear retaliation from the hive mind if they dare point out some basic facts about him.

Carey was a great player and one of the best contested marks the game has seen. One of. And that's the only thing about him that was truly elite historically.

He was ultimately a career forward who isn't even in the top 20 for goals all time, and probably not even in the top 50 for average goals per game (I couldn't find a table that went passed 30). And it is not exclusively traditional full forwards above him.

And here's the kicker - do you know which player holds the record for the most marks inside 50 in a season? Buddy, in his early days before he started pushing up the ground more. Even if Buddy wasn't the contested marking beast that Carey was, the ability to gain space on opponents isn't somehow a negative.

Buddy kicked more goals in an era where players kicked less goals and was simply a more versatile player.

Carey wasn't typically a deep forward though. To some degree you can argue that with Buddy, but I think he still had more possessions inside 50 compared to Carey who did a LOT of work between the arcs. The proportion of his disposals that were scoring shots shows that quite nicely compared to other forwards of the era who kicked more goals.

Where Carey is hurt is the poor stats we had back then. Score involvements and goal assists in particular it's very possible he would be the absolute highest of his generation (that had so many incredible forwards).

A simple goals average doesn't really tell the story because Carey was a real creator too. He used to do very well in the Brownlow for a forward - much better than players kicking those sorts of goal tallies today. That points to his influence as a more positionally advanced forward - which is a bit apples vs oranges when comparing to deep forwards.

Some of this is true with Ablett Senior as well, but he did favour goals over creation compared to Carey.

 

[Lunchtime]

Carey wasn't typically a deep forward though. To some degree you can argue that with Buddy, but I think he still had more possessions inside 50 compared to Carey who did a LOT of work between the arcs. The proportion of his disposals that were scoring shots shows that quite nicely compared to other forwards of the era who kicked more goals.

Where Carey is hurt is the poor stats we had back then. Score involvements and goal assists in particular it's very possible he would be the absolute highest of his generation (that had so many incredible forwards).

A simple goals average doesn't really tell the story because Carey was a real creator too. He used to do very well in the Brownlow for a forward - much better than players kicking those sorts of goal tallies today. That points to his influence as a more positionally advanced forward - which is a bit apples vs oranges when comparing to deep forwards.

Some of this is true with Ablett Senior as well, but he did favour goals over creation compared to Carey.

Even Contested Marks, that's a stat that started to be recorded from 1999, only 27 years ago.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Carey has become this bizarre purity test where people think if you don't rate him the GOAT, you don't know football. People either can't think for themselves or fear retaliation from the hive mind if they dare point out some basic facts about him.

Carey was a great player and one of the best contested marks the game has seen. One of. And that's the only thing about him that was truly elite historically.

He was ultimately a career forward who isn't even in the top 20 for goals all time, and probably not even in the top 50 for average goals per game (I couldn't find a table that went passed 30). And it is not exclusively traditional full forwards above him.

And here's the kicker - do you know which player holds the record for the most marks inside 50 in a season? Buddy, in his early days before he started pushing up the ground more. Even if Buddy wasn't the contested marking beast that Carey was, the ability to gain space on opponents isn't somehow a negative.

Buddy kicked more goals in an era where players kicked less goals and was simply a more versatile player.

TBH I've never watched enough of Leigh Matthews, Polly Farmer, Ted Whitten and John Coleman to ever get too carried away by the GOAT debate.

Having said that, the suggestion that contested marking was the only elite quality Carey had is total horseshit.

He had truly sublime forward craft. Roosting goals from over 60m for fun. His leading patterns and bodywork were exceptional. He psychologically imposed himself on games in a manner that I find hard to draw comparisons to.

Like Buddy, his combination of strengh plus mobility was genuinely top-shelf. Buddy had better pace and groundball work. Carey beats him in the air, and had vices for hands.

But I think the more important distinction is that Carey could beat the opposition in ugly contested scenarios where North was getting smashed everywhere else on ground and supply was poor. He had dozens of different tricks to make the rest of his team mates jobs easier.

 

[Cold Sober]

As good as Buddy was, and he was great, Carey was in a totally different world or class.

 

[JZTIME!]

Carey has become this bizarre purity test where people think if you don't rate him the GOAT, you don't know football. People either can't think for themselves or fear retaliation from the hive mind if they dare point out some basic facts about him.

Carey was a great player and one of the best contested marks the game has seen. One of. And that's the only thing about him that was truly elite historically.

He was ultimately a career forward who isn't even in the top 20 for goals all time, and probably not even in the top 50 for average goals per game (I couldn't find a table that went passed 30). And it is not exclusively traditional full forwards above him.

And here's the kicker - do you know which player holds the record for the most marks inside 50 in a season? Buddy, in his early days before he started pushing up the ground more. Even if Buddy wasn't the contested marking beast that Carey was, the ability to gain space on opponents isn't somehow a negative.

Buddy kicked more goals in an era where players kicked less goals and was simply a more versatile player.

Carey played back (after his reco) and regularly got midfielders stats. He did so when playing in the guts. His field kicking on both feet was elite. I hope one day the AFL engage CD or the like to go back and truly capture the effectiveness of a player like Carey. Would have kicked top 10 goals ever if played as an out and out FF. With the current rules would be some sort of player. Picture Cripps size, Bont footskills and agility with the best current mark of the football in one player.

 

[My Tilly]

Poll says it all.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Carey is the best to ever do it, this debate is disrespectful to his career.

Disrespectful to be compared with someone who kicked over 1000 goals in their career? Wow.

 

[kanga kanga kanga]

Disrespectful to be compared with someone who kicked over 1000 goals in their career? Wow.

Carey’s in talks as the greatest ever, everyone knows he’s at least top 3