Discussion:- What is our game plan?

[Alpha1]

I just want to know from fellow supporters whether we do have a plan? Do we have a plan to play against the zone/flood? Do we have the cattle that can handle pressure? Do we have the skills by hand & foot? Do we have a plan B?. Even Essendon who most of you wrote off are playing better than us and we are meant to have a better list than them. What do we need to do from now on to make the finals? And will we even get there?

 

[Chism]

To answer the question Alpha... I honestly dont know anymore. After watching us the last 5 weeks or so we are all over the place and are really struggling.

 

[Alpha1]

I am just unhappy that teams like the Bummers who are meant to have a shocking list are performing better than us. And even seem to have a better game plan than us.

 

[Chism]

I am just unhappy that teams like the Bummers who are meant to have a shocking list are performing better than us. And even seem to have a better game plan than us.

Cant argue with that. ^^^^^^

 

[BlueVision]

I cant shed any light on your question Alpha, but it mystifies me that we play some weeks as though we have given no thought to the opposing team and its game plan.

I have always been of the opinion to play one on one accountable football and don't over complicate the game for the young players coming through.

 

[Alpha1]

The problem is we only have a few leaders, we have too many unskilled players. Or too many passengers who go missing when it gets a little hard. And I think we have too many supporters who are willing to tolerate this, we are Carlton, we didn't become successful by giving blokes who can't kick 15 meters a game week in week out.

 

[BlueVision]

Having Fev run around half back at the start of a game is plain stupid....this idea of trying to bring him into the play early and pick up some cheap possesions so he doesn't drop his bundle is crap.

Obviously Fev is not solely to blame for this tactic but what sort of a message does it send to the team when it happens from the 1st bounce.

 

[BrunoV]

The sides Carlton put on the field are crap in terms of structure. It is close enough to game plan and I don't want to start a thread, being an Essendon supporter, as it wouldn't be taken seriously.

I cannot understand some of the selection decisions that have been made under Ratten. I think the fact that you don't know what your structure is kills any consistency in selecting/using a game plan.

For the perspective of the casual observer this is the team that should walk out each week. There is enough skill and pace to play long and direct football.

There have been some problems with injuries this year but the history of selection is there and it would piss me off if I was a Carlton supporter.

1. O'hAilpin is your full back/centre half back. He is massive, aggressive, strong and quick. One year he played on Lloyd and killed him (Lloyd kicked 5 but it was free kicks and ground level play). More importantly there was a period of 5 or 6 games around that time when he was really starting to look good. Yet as soon as Ratten came in he was not persisted with in the position. Merritt at Brisbane was not a footballer but had the physical attributes to play full back, he was scratchy but is now one of the best full backs in the league. Setanta's selection flows into the next point.

2. Waite is more important as a forward. The argument is that you need more avenues to goal and that Fevola can't handle it buy himself (no single forward can). His goal kicking is average but he would be a very good centre half forward.

3. Fisher is a very good foil. Is he injured? The poor bastard has been the second key forward for years because there was no one else. He didn't have the body for it and I think this has caused him to be unfairly judged. He would be a great half forward playing on a 3rd or 4th choice tall defenderm which he is a chance to do.

4. At this stage Kreuzer is more important as a forward. You don't want such a young and promising player exposed to the ruck this early in his career. He is very mobile and a good contested mark.

5. The combination of Hampson and Jacobs is enough in the ruck until Warnock is fit. Jacobs is big enough to bash the opposition taking the heat of Hampson who seems to be a big talent and has always shown enough when I have watched him. This set up would loose the ruck more often than it would win but it would be competitive and Kruezer is not going to tip the balance toward victory at this stage because he is just too young.

Your spine then looks something like:

Backs: Jamison, Bower, O'hAilpin and Thornton

Rucks: Hampson, Jacobs and Kreuzer (if he is not in the game as a forward or something is going seriously wrong).

Forwards: Fevola, Waite (yes he is injured now), Kreuzer and Fisher. Betts and Yarran (lay of this guy, he is not Rich at this stage in his career but you never judge a young indigenous player until year 3 at the earliest) crumbing. I suppose with Waite out now the pressure is on Fisher again. Waite could be covered by the permanent forward presence of Kreuzer - it could not be ignored. If you get stretched Hampson is no worse a prospect as a forward than what a Will Minson is at the Bulldogs.

The midfield speaks for itself. As do the half backs.

It shits me when the structure of a side is ignored like it has been at Carlton. If you had set positions (as far as I can tell what am suggesting has never been tried) the game plan would reveal itself.

You have the players...use them.



Edit: too many typos and terrible sentences

 

[BlueVision]

I think the sides Carlton put on the field are crap in terms of structure. It is close enough to game plan and I don't want to start a thread because I am an Essendon supporter and wont be taken seriously.

I cannot understand some of the selection decisions that have been made under Ratten. I think the fact that you don't know what your structure is and that is what is killing the gameplan.

For the perspective of the casual observer this is the team that should walk out each week. There is enough skill and pace to play long and direct football.

There have been some problems with injuries this year but the history of selection is there and it would piss me off if I was not Carlton supporter.

1. O'hAilpin is your full back/centre half back. He is massive, aggressive, strong and quick. One year he played on Lloyd and killed him (Lloyd kicked 5 but it was free kicks and ground level play). More importantly there was a period of 5 or 6 games around that time when he was really starting to look good. Yet as soon as Ratten came in he was not persisted with in teh position. Merritt at Brisbane was not a footballer but had the physical attributes to play full back, he was scratchy but is now one of the best full backs in the league. Setanta's selection flows into the next point.

2. Waite is more important as a forward. The argument is that you need more avenues to goal and that Fevola can't handle it buy himself (no single forward can). His goal kicking is average but he would be a very good centre half forward.

3. Fisher is a very good foil. Is he injured? The poor bastard has been the second key forward for years because there was no one else. He didn't have the body for it and I think this has caused him to be unfairly judged. He would be a great half forward playing on a 3rd or 4th choice tall defenderm which he is a chance to do.

4. At this stage Kreuzer is more important as a forward. You don't want such a young and promising player exposed to the ruck this early in his career. He is so mobile and a good contested mark.

5. The combination of Hampson and Jacobs is enough in the ruck until Warnock is fit. Jacobs is big enough to bash the opposition taking the heat of Hampson who seems to be a big talent and has always shown enough when I have watched him. This set up would loose the ruck more often than it would win but it would be competitive and Kruezer is not going to tip the balance toward victory at this stage because he is just too young.

Your spine then looks something like:

Backs: Jamison, Bower, O'hAilpin and Thornton

Rucks: Hampson, Jacobs and Kreuzer (if he is not in the game as a forward or something is going seriously wrong).

Forwards: Fevola, Waite (yes he is injured now), Kreuzer and Fisher. Betts and Yarran (lay of this guy, he is not Rich at this stage in his career but you never judge a young indigenous player until year 3 at the earliest)crumbing. I suppose with Waite out now the pressure is on Fisher again but a permanent presence of Kreuzer could not be ignored.

The midfield speaks for itself. As do the half backs.

It shits me when the structure of a side is ignored like it has been at Carlton. If you had set positions (as far as I can tell what am suggesting has never been tried) I think a game plan would reveal itself.

Good post - nice to get an objective point of view from a rival supporter

 

[blue gunslinger]

Thanks Bruno - valid points

 

[celtic_pride]

Point is ... The buck stops with the coach, simplistic, but also truthful ...

I don't think we'll be playing finals this year, no way in hell, not with the current game plan and structure, and lack of accountable football, basically all our wins have come against teams that play 'unaccountable, free-flowing, un-defensive' footy, and we pasted an injury riddled Collingwood.

We are only on track for a 10 win season as it stands now, which is very frustrating and dissapointing.

 

[Alpha1]

Thanks Bruno, good to see the supporters from other clubs come in here willing to have a intelligent discussion. And yes that was a very good post.

 

[AlecDuncan]

1. O'hAilpin is your full back/centre half back.

...

5. The combination of Hampson and Jacobs is enough in the ruck until Warnock is fit.

That's a pretty fair analysis BV. I hope Blues posters aren't on such a hair trigger today that they can't treat it as such.

Setanta has struggled for selection while we (rightly in my opinion) played Waite at CHB. Sadly, that "problem" is no longer. He's no ruckman, and now we have to fill a key defender position. He's the logical choice.

Austin isn't there yet, but we should persist with him.

If only Jacobs was fit. We've struggled ever since he was injured. Hammer's done a fair job and is progressing nicely, but Sauce is better right now. The problem with moving Kruezer forward is that it robs us of an extra midfielder. Hammer and Sauce don't compare in this area.

 

[thylacine60]

BrunoV, to take the trouble to put that assessment together as an opposition supporter without:

• gloating
• sniping or
• trolling

is a credit to you. And a new poster to boot. You'll get some questions on Carlos as a KPP but otherwise you know us too well. Well done.

I think your list has obviously been under-estimated as has your coach. I listened to someone running through your injuries this morning and it garners pretty well for the future.

I'd like someone who knows their stuff to tell me the options available when it comes to game-plans. Are they unlimited dependant on your playing group or are there a few basic versions only? Does structure simply imply where players line-up? Zones, rolling zones, rotations, tunnelling, quarterbacks, yardage, chop-outs and 12 point goals.

I use to love my footy.

 

[Alpha1]

Thy this is just my opinion I am sure there are other posters more knowledgeable than me when it comes to football and our playing list. But I think we have too many players who are unaccountable, don't go in hard, or the skills/decision making aren't up to standard. To combat the zone/flood a team needs players who are willing to bust their guts, to go man on man or be willing to run and carry the ball if they are outside players. But those outside players that we have aren't skillful with hand or foot. They will get their 30 odd disposals but most of those will be cheap, error riddled disposals. They will turn it over and then two seconds later the ball will be kicked over their heads and we get hurt. This has happened countless times now, and some people just don't see this and continue to praise these same players who every year make the same mistakes.

 

[Dooky]

I just want to know from fellow supporters whether we do have a plan? Do we have a plan to play against the zone/flood? Do we have the cattle that can handle pressure? Do we have the skills by hand & foot? Do we have a plan B?. Even Essendon who most of you wrote off are playing better than us and we are meant to have a better list than them. What do we need to do from now on to make the finals? And will we even get there?

Mate...Essendon most definately have a better list than us and the reason is pretty obvious.

 

[Alpha1]

I have to agree as hard and disgusting as it is to say. Essendon have more depth, and a better plan than us. That is why they will make the finals and we wont.

 

[nutcase888]

The problem is we only have a few leaders, we have too many unskilled players. Or too many passengers who go missing when it gets a little hard. And I think we have too many supporters who are willing to tolerate this, we are Carlton, we didn't become successful by giving blokes who can't kick 15 meters a game week in week out.

So who would u drop and who would u bring in? FWIW i think the criticisms about selections and game plan are valid, however coming up with solutions are a different things all together. As much as its obvious to me that guys like Wiggins and Russell are not up to AFL standard, I am struggling to think of who in the seconds would do a better job. Perhaps it's time to bring back Houlihan but he is not going to make a huge difference to the teams fortunes. This will of course sound like an excuse but rebuilding is a process of gradual improvement. There is no unrestricted free agency in the AFL which allows Carlton to go out and buy all the best players. We have had some high draft picks due to our poor on field performance but people forget that these players get drafted as 17 year old kids. By about 20-21 they have the physical tools to compete with men but not so much the emotional maturity. Guys like Franklin are rare and most players don't play there best football until they hit their mid twenties. A couple of years ago most people had written of the saints as under achievers and low and behold they suddenly look like a premiership threat. Maybe they had the talent in the past but didn't understood what it took to consistently play at their best week after week. I have no doubt the Blues will get there eventually and i am hoping they still may sneak into the finals this year. For the time being the only option is patience among the fan base

 

[Alpha1]

I really think JR needs to go, my thoughts are pretty clear on him, has had plenty of time and chances but has not improved at all. I think Hatlett needs to have a good solid go in the seniors, I know he hasn't done much. But before we get rid of him we need to give him a solid run in the ones. They are doing the right thing with Hammo, Robinson, Yarran etc get some games into them now. Yarran has shown he has some beautiful foot skills, Hammo has a lot of upside. We do have talent not like we are running bare on talent.

 

[incog43]

Well done to the bombers, and Knights. They come to play at least, and what a difference that makes. In some games, we honestly look not that interested, and worse, at times simply inept. It's like the player are tightening up, not wanting to make a mistake.

Been some good performances individually from game to game, its not going to matter though untill we get all 22 firing at once.

Game plan, what $%%$ game plan, we have not shown the skills(across the board) consistently enough to exectute once since round 4 or 5.

Long way to go though, we just need 22 clicking at once.

 

[incog43]

And for the love of god, please get rid of wiggins, he tries, he is gutsy, he can take a grab, but he cant kick, and when your a forward, thats really kinda important. He has choke written all over his face every time...

 

[thylacine60]

So who would u drop and who would u bring in? FWIW i think the criticisms about selections and game plan are valid, however coming up with solutions are a different things all together. As much as its obvious to me that guys like Wiggins and Russell are not up to AFL standard, I am struggling to think of who in the seconds would do a better job. Perhaps it's time to bring back Houlihan but he is not going to make a huge difference to the teams fortunes. This will of course sound like an excuse but rebuilding is a process of gradual improvement. There is no unrestricted free agency in the AFL which allows Carlton to go out and buy all the best players. We have had some high draft picks due to our poor on field performance but people forget that these players get drafted as 17 year old kids. By about 20-21 they have the physical tools to compete with men but not so much the emotional maturity. Guys like Franklin are rare and most players don't play there best football until they hit their mid twenties. A couple of years ago most people had written of the saints as under achievers and low and behold they suddenly look like a premiership threat. Maybe they had the talent in the past but didn't understood what it took to consistently play at their best week after week. I have no doubt the Blues will get there eventually and i am hoping they still may sneak into the finals this year. For the time being the only option is patience among the fan base

Yep. Credit to ya.

 

[jonoman89]

Ratts is still clearly a developing coach. Yesterday's flooding was embarrassing...and he did nothing to correct it. We had no forward line FFS.

He seriously needs to impliment strategies to combat flooding. And no Ratts, the answer to flooding is not making your team flood as well.

 

[nutcase888]

I really think JR needs to go, my thoughts are pretty clear on him, has had plenty of time and chances but has not improved at all. I think Hatlett needs to have a good solid go in the seniors, I know he hasn't done much. But before we get rid of him we need to give him a solid run in the ones. They are doing the right thing with Hammo, Robinson, Yarran etc get some games into them now. Yarran has shown he has some beautiful foot skills, Hammo has a lot of upside. We do have talent not like we are running bare on talent.

Thats fine, at least u made some suggestions some of which i agree with. However even if they made all those changes its not going to result in any drastic improvement in the short term. We are a middle of the road team. That is an imprrovement from two years ago when we were diabolical. If we can sneak a finals spot this year that suggests further gradual improvement to me.

 

[Alpha1]

Thats fine, at least u made some suggestions some of which i agree with. However even if they made all those changes its not going to result in any drastic improvement in the short term. We are a middle of the road team. That is an imprrovement from two years ago when we were diabolical. If we can sneak a finals spot this year that suggests further gradual improvement to me.

I don't care about the short term, we need to look at the future and our future is definitely not with players like Stevens, JR, Cloke, Wiggins etc. I am sick of the bullshit, sick of putting up with pathetic skills errors and decisions making ability. Yet these players continue to get a free ride in our 22, we have a few people in this team that have taken their spot for granted. Irish is one who needs to play and play, why does he play one ****ing game and get dropped? He has more heart than some others in this side.