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Doc Reid

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Lavender Bushranger said:
You do realise don't you, that these people that you pity and are belittling for making shitloads of posts, are the very ones you're desperately trying to convince of your supposed 'inside knowledge'?


If you think they're such deadshits, why bother dude?
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Im not trying to convince any of the mate.. I couldnt care if the sad campaignes believe me or not... I just know what I know and I would just say its slightly more informed that what most on here take from the media as gospel....
 
t_ontour said:
Im not trying to convince any of the mate.. I couldnt care if the sad campaignes believe me or not... I just know what I know and I would just say its slightly more informed that what most on here take from the media as gospel....
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Of course it is. Over soon. Storm in a tea cup. ASADA won't issue show cause notices. ASADA won't issue infraction notices. WADA won't come over the top.
 
t_ontour said:
Im not trying to convince any of the mate.. I couldnt care if the sad campaignes believe me or not... I just know what I know and I would just say its slightly more informed that what most on here take from the media as gospel....
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Unless you know Dank or know someone who knows Dank (like me) you know nothing. Players were not told anything so even if you knew all of them personally, you would not know anymore than any other poster here. They are as much in the dark as anyone else is. That is why they think they are innocent. I hope they are actually not punished if WADA wins the case. I just want Dank punished and those who allowed him to practice without the correct checks in place to be punished if WADA win.
 
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Ancient Tiger said:
Unless you know Dank or know someone who knows Dank (like me) you know nothing. Players were not told anything so even if you knew all of them personally, you would not know anymore than any other poster here. They are as much in the dark as anyone else is. That is why they think they are innocent. I hope they are actually not punished if WADA wins the case. I just want Dank punished and those who allowed him to practice without the correct checks in place to be punished if WADA win.
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The players are in the dark because they chose to be in the dark. No sympathy from me for them. I hope they all get 2 year bans.

If they do get bans then we may see some penalties imposed upon all of the architects of the program and their accomplices.
 

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Ancient Tiger said:
Unless you know Dank or know someone who knows Dank (like me) you know nothing. Players were not told anything so even if you knew all of them personally, you would not know anymore than any other poster here. They are as much in the dark as anyone else is. That is why they think they are innocent. I hope they are actually not punished if WADA wins the case. I just want Dank punished and those who allowed him to practice without the correct checks in place to be punished if WADA win.
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They had large numbers of injections but weren't told anything? If they didn't ask what they were being injected with and didn't check then they didn't do what they were required to do.
 
BlueWorld said:
They had large numbers of injections but weren't told anything? If they didn't ask what they were being injected with and didn't check then they didn't do what they were required to do.
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I agree that they certainly didn't do their job. But footballers just follow orders, that is what they are trained to do. No excuse, but it is just a fact!
 
neutralguy said:
"The fears and misgivings harboured by Essendon club doctor Bruce Reid that were recorded in a letter early last year and delivered to the club's football operations boss Paul Hamilton is still being investigated by club chairman David Evans.

The hand-written letter was intended for chief executive Ian Robson and his directors, and yet none of the above were aware of it until February this year."

That appears to say hand written to me.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/hamilton-key-to-letter-mystery-20130507-2j5v3.html
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Reading this article again you have to wonder ...

Evans said on Monday, when he released the Ziggy Switkowski report, that Switkowski had not uncovered why the letter was not delivered. This is despite the fact that Hamilton, removed from the club in September last year, was interviewed for the report.

On Tuesday, no one involved could explain it either. Evans refused to comment, Hamilton said he was maintaining his silence out of respect for the ASADA process. All he said was ''my conscience is clear on the issue''. Reid has refused since February to comment.

The Essendon directors remain bitterly disappointed that Reid's concerns never reached them. Reid reportedly was unaware of that fact until Fairfax Media reported it last month.


1. Did Hamilton say nothing because he was never actually given the letter. It's hard to believe that his 'conscience would be clear' had he withheld a letter from the club doctor from the board.

2. If Reid was that concerned and given the potential ramifications of the injections, surely Reid would have given it to David Evans personally and not via the football manager.

3. More than a year later the good Doc was unaware the board hadn't received his letter? So he didn't bother to follow this up with Hamilton or the anyone on the committee even though he was so concerned to pen it in the first place ...

Very hard to believe.
 
t_ontour said:
Im not trying to convince any of the mate.. I couldnt care if the sad campaignes believe me or not... I just know what I know and I would just say its slightly more informed that what most on here take from the media as gospel....
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And also more involved than most Essendon supporters who post on here understand. The "we did nuffin' wrong" argument just doesn't wash any more, but we keep reading it.
 
If the letter was widely distributed and AOD continued a number of people would know that a medical practitioner had stated it was not fit for therapeutic purposes - therefore in breach of the code if we are to believe McDevitt's view for not prosecuting on it
 
Blueyboy74 said:
Reading this article again you have to wonder ...

Evans said on Monday, when he released the Ziggy Switkowski report, that Switkowski had not uncovered why the letter was not delivered. This is despite the fact that Hamilton, removed from the club in September last year, was interviewed for the report.

On Tuesday, no one involved could explain it either. Evans refused to comment, Hamilton said he was maintaining his silence out of respect for the ASADA process. All he said was ''my conscience is clear on the issue''. Reid has refused since February to comment.

The Essendon directors remain bitterly disappointed that Reid's concerns never reached them. Reid reportedly was unaware of that fact until Fairfax Media reported it last month.


1. Did Hamilton say nothing because he was never actually given the letter. It's hard to believe that his 'conscience would be clear' had he withheld a letter from the club doctor from the board.

2. If Reid was that concerned and given the potential ramifications of the injections, surely Reid would have given it to David Evans personally and not via the football manager.

3. More than a year later the good Doc was unaware the board hadn't received his letter? So he didn't bother to follow this up with Hamilton or the anyone on the committee even though he was so concerned to pen it in the first place ...

Very hard to believe.
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Very!
 
Blueyboy74 said:
Reading this article again you have to wonder ...

Evans said on Monday, when he released the Ziggy Switkowski report, that Switkowski had not uncovered why the letter was not delivered. This is despite the fact that Hamilton, removed from the club in September last year, was interviewed for the report.

On Tuesday, no one involved could explain it either. Evans refused to comment, Hamilton said he was maintaining his silence out of respect for the ASADA process. All he said was ''my conscience is clear on the issue''. Reid has refused since February to comment.

The Essendon directors remain bitterly disappointed that Reid's concerns never reached them. Reid reportedly was unaware of that fact until Fairfax Media reported it last month.


1. Did Hamilton say nothing because he was never actually given the letter. It's hard to believe that his 'conscience would be clear' had he withheld a letter from the club doctor from the board.

2. If Reid was that concerned and given the potential ramifications of the injections, surely Reid would have given it to David Evans personally and not via the football manager.

3. More than a year later the good Doc was unaware the board hadn't received his letter? So he didn't bother to follow this up with Hamilton or the anyone on the committee even though he was so concerned to pen it in the first place ...

Very hard to believe.
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It’s very possible that the letter was a sham. Given that, if you read the James Hired Reading the Play: On Life and Leadership book from 2010, it states that there was a 1998 Midnight meeting at James Hird’s house with John Quinn and Dr Bruce Reid, where they were trying to solve Hird’s initial Navicular injury.

AOD was used in recent times to try and treat Navicular. If Dr Reid did not know what AOD was being used for in his ‘concerned letter’ to the club in January 2012, he should be sacked, which is what they were trying to do to him in 2013 until he launched Supreme Court action.
 
Akka76 said:
It’s very possible that the letter was a sham. Given that, if you read the James Hired Reading the Play: On Life and Leadership book from 2010, it states that there was a 1998 Midnight meeting at James Hird’s house with John Quinn and Dr Bruce Reid, where they were trying to solve Hird’s initial Navicular injury.

AOD was used in recent times to try and treat Navicular. If Dr Reid did not know what AOD was being used for in his ‘concerned letter’ to the club in January 2012, he should be sacked, which is what they were trying to do to him in 2013 until he launched Supreme Court action.
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Laughable... the AFL or EFC have never tried to sack Reid. The AFL was using Reid and others as a bargoning chip when they were trying to saction Hird. As was going well for the AFL, until Reid as well reported told them to 'Go and heck off'... they thought he would roll over and not only didnt he roll over, he then took on the AFL for all charges and surprise surprise when the AFL was about to be exposed in court... the dropped all charges.

Since then... Reid continues at EFC... remains an AFL life Member and ESS Life Member and clearly has the support of all at the club.

Again I look at the actions of those close to this saga... and not those on BF who speculate while running campaigns.
 

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t_ontour said:
Laughable... the AFL or EFC have never tried to sack Reid. The AFL was using Reid and others as a bargoning chip when they were trying to saction Hird. As was going well for the AFL, until Reid as well reported told them to 'Go and heck off'... they thought he would roll over and not only didnt he roll over, he then took on the AFL for all charges and surprise surprise when the AFL was about to be exposed in court... the dropped all charges.

Since then... Reid continues at EFC... remains an AFL life Member and ESS Life Member and clearly has the support of all at the club.

Again I look at the actions of those close to this saga... and not those on BF who speculate while running campaigns.
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No one gives a toss mate, the Swiss are here now, and if the Swiss are helping to take down FIFA officials, they sure as hell won't give a toss about James Hird, Paul Little and David Evans.

Ess is now under the Inquisitorial legal system now, as opposed to the Anglo adverserial system.
 
Ancient Tiger said:
I agree that they certainly didn't do their job. But footballers just follow orders, that is what they are trained to do. No excuse, but it is just a fact!
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Mmmm - but a cornerstone of this long, sad, sorry saga, is that those players were selective in which orders they actually chose to follow.

The yearly "check every substance you are to use on this handy and easy to use little website, that will give you a receipt of every enquiry you make", was ignored in favour of "don't ask, it's cutting edge but safe",which was then followed some months later by "just sign this, but don't worry, it's all safe - just don't tell anyone or check yourself, because it is secret-squirrel-special!".

If anything it seems that they didn't do what they were trained to do, but instead followed what they were cajoled, asked or co-erced to do. Were they actually ordered by EFC to participate? I can't tell from the public info available, but the seeming instances of some declining to be involved suggests not.


Edit: Argh! Have to remember which thread I'm posting in, as eventually they all start to look the same!
Back OT, not sure then where Doc Reid fitted in to how the players reacted - where they expecting more leadership from the good Doc?

If his most visible action and statement on the program was the letter(s) and the players had little visibility of it and anything that came out of it, then would this appear to be tacit approval, to the players?
 
t_ontour said:
Laughable... the AFL or EFC have never tried to sack Reid. The AFL was using Reid and others as a bargoning chip when they were trying to saction Hird. As was going well for the AFL, until Reid as well reported told them to 'Go and heck off'... they thought he would roll over and not only didnt he roll over, he then took on the AFL for all charges and surprise surprise when the AFL was about to be exposed in court... the dropped all charges.

Since then... Reid continues at EFC... remains an AFL life Member and ESS Life Member and clearly has the support of all at the club.

Again I look at the actions of those close to this saga... and not those on BF who speculate while running campaigns.
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Yes - another one of those disconnects in all of this.

Reid may have been MIA, or not forceful enough, in his actions in supporting the players. But he also had a lot professionally to lose if the AFL nailed him.

From my very limited space of understanding, I would expect that Doc Reid would have used everything he had available to him in his defense and in a proper court of law - as the repercussions to him were in the real world, not just the sand-pit of the AFL.
 
Gavin Excell said:
Listed as a witness for WADA in the CAS report. Dare say was important in confirming the case against essendon.

Wonder how safe he feels in his job at Bomberland having snitched on them
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Caro said she'd expected him to resign yesterday. Was made a Life Member just eight months ago.
 

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Ron The Bear said:
Caro said she'd expected him to resign yesterday. Was made a Life Member just eight months ago.
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Not just a lifer - a hall of famer.

He should be resigning ASAP.
 
Ron The Bear said:
Caro said she'd expected him to resign yesterday. Was made a Life Member just eight months ago.
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Well if Caro says so... then he obviously should then.

Caro may not support him... but strange that after all this he is the last man standing and still has the full support of the club and the players. The players, the club, ASADA, WADA and now CAS all understand the roll of Reid in this and surprise surprise all are consistent in their support. Shame Caro being uninformed and on the outside isnt so,,
 
t_ontour said:
Well if Caro says so... then he obviously should then.

Caro may not support him... but strange that after all this he is the last man standing and still has the full support of the club and the players. The players, the club, ASADA, WADA and now CAS all understand the roll of Reid in this and surprise surprise all are consistent in their support. Shame Caro being uninformed and on the outside isnt so,,
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Seems like a decent man who just fell in with the wrong crowd.
 
t_ontour said:
Laughable...
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Indeed and particularly this part.

t_ontour said:
Since then... Reid continues at EFC... remains an AFL life Member and ESS Life Member and clearly has the support of all at the club.
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As if having the support of EFC now provides any crediblity or authority.:rolleyes: Hird had the full support of the EFC.

Dr Reid is the Sergeant Shultz of the AFL. " I know nothing" when he clearly was putting 2+2 together but chose to just turn his back when required.
 
Gavin Excell said:
Listed as a witness for WADA in the CAS report. Dare say was important in confirming the case against essendon.

Wonder how safe he feels in his job at Bomberland having snitched on them
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Could you imagine if he declined to be interviewed though?

I think he was there (on his belief), that it would help for no sig fault as he knew nothing about it etc, and the players were really duped
 

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