Domestic Violence Epidemic

[Kurve]

Thread here on COERCIVE CONTROL

 

[Festerz]

No fan of waleed aly but his article today in the age on the topic makes some good points imo.

Yes it does make some good points but, as Waleed's lectures often do, in his claims to speak from a position of academic authority on any issue, he over-reaches and misses the point. imo.

Those working with domestic violence survivors and those at risk of harm not hold “all men” responsible for violence against women. But they do hold “all men” responsible for supporting women in their struggle to end that violence. And that includes those in positions of power - including legislators, police, media moguls, sports administrators, business owners and politicians.

It's a common misconception though. And why the RESPECT campaign in all its forms misses the mark badly. And more to the point, it provides an easy out for those men who are incapable of understanding the problem.

It needs to be ditched and replaced with something far more targeted and hard hitting.

 

[South of the Yarra]

We can generalize perpetrators. Men. I have no issue with this.

We can generalize victims. Women. I have no issue with this.

We can further generalize victims. Aboriginal Women. They are are up to 45% more likely to be victims. https://www.ombudsman.wa.gov.au/Pub...DVROs/FDVROs-6-Aboriginal-family-violence.pdf. I have no issue with this.

So how about we start further generalizing the perpetrators? Who are the people making Aboriginal women 45% more likely to be victims of DV?

We know so much about poor childhood leads to adult perpetrators.

But god forbid you take Indigenous boys out of bad homes.

So many of the people screaming the loudest about violence against women epidemic are the same people that would scream loudest about giving young boys from bad homes a better homelife opportunity. Yet thats a clear and reasonable solution to reduce this problem.

And where are you going to put these 'bad' Aboriginal boys? How are you going to support them? How are you going to cease the second stolen generation?

 

[AvantGardener]

And where are you going to put these 'bad' Aboriginal boys? How are you going to support them? How are you going to cease the second stolen generation?

Where did I say bad Aboriginal boys? I said bad homes.

I will leave it up to others to put in place the best (but realistic) support system we can in the situation. Regardless, need to risk some people calling it a second stolen generation if you want to try and help fix some of the rot that is going on. Pick your poison, a 'second stolen generation' or 45% higher rate of DV victims being Indigenous women (among countless other issues). The world isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Where did I say bad Aboriginal boys? I said bad homes.

I will leave it up to others to put in place the best (but realistic) support system we can in the situation. Regardless, need to risk some people calling it a second stolen generation if you want to try and help fix some of the rot that is going on. Pick your poison, a 'second stolen generation' or 45% higher rate of DV victims being Indigenous women (among countless other issues). The world isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

Well, it is a second stolen generation, the number of Aboriginal children taken from homes unnecessarily is ridiculous. Leaving up to others has failed and failed miserably.

 

[Present Not Past]

A woman was raped in a Minister’s office in Parliament House and it was hushed up.
There won’t be any meaningful political changes in this country.
They’re clueless.

 

[BFew]

With that history including a charge of aggravated animal cruelty, I'd have felt there was a real danger in letting him out.

Hurting or killing a family pet is reported to be being built into NSW Police's redesigned Domestic Violence Safety Assessment Tool (DVSAT) tool.

Lots of other info in this article about DV related initiatives NSW Police have and still are undertaking, and some of the as yet alleged unresolved issues.

He called himself The Destroyer and ransacked his partner’s home. Here’s how police took him down

Domestic violence is the biggest challenge facing NSW Police: they get 500 call-outs a day and spend up to 60 per cent of general duties dealing with the cases.

www.smh.com.au

'May 4, 2024 — 5.00am
...
The registry is leading a redesign of the 10-year-old Domestic Violence Safety Assessment Tool (DVSAT), which assesses risk by asking victims whether their partner has ever been violent towards them, choked them, hurt or killed a family pet or stalked them – all key indicators that something more serious may be imminent.

The update was prompted after a 2019 review found the DVSAT was not always used well and could put victims at greater risk of harm. The new version will include the risks that have been identified since the first was developed in 2014.''
...'

 

[faible]

A woman was raped in a Minister’s office in Parliament House and it was hushed up.
There won’t be any meaningful political changes in this country.
They’re clueless.

Clueless isn’t even the right word IMO, it’s a deliberate choice to cover it up. Which is far more insidious.

 

[BFew]

I can only speak for my area but there is a voluntary DV education program, but it is not mandated in court. I believe mandating these programs would be helpful.

Evidence of mandatory DV courses as part of Community Corrections Orders in NSW in the below article today and legals website.

Not sure if there is an equivalent of the "Engage" DV education program for adult DV perpetrators/accused who are NOT "men".

Or court approved DV education program for all genders, where the DV victim is a family member other than their partner or ex-partner. For example, their parent(s).

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/magistrates-dire-dv-warning-after-eastern-suburb-abusers-disgusting-actions/news-story/46180774ae83e89ba03a0c2c1ec87c82

'Magistrate’s dire DV warning after eastern suburb abuser’s ‘disgusting’ actions'​

'May 4, 2024 - 5:00AM
...
He was sentenced to an 18-month jail term to be served in the community as an intensive corrections order after being found guilty of four counts of assault occasioning actual bodily harm, one of intimidation and three of damaging her property in March.

He was ordered to complete any domestic violence courses prescribed to him by a community corrections officer as part of his order.
...'

ENGAGE Program for Domestic Violence

ENGAGE is a free program for Domestic Violence Offenders for men, over 18 that helps recognise and develop strategies to better cope.

catronsimmons.com.au

'ENGAGE Program for Domestic Violence​

ENGAGE is for men over 18 who are at court for an Apprehended Domestic Violence Order application or a Domestic Violence (“ADVO”) charge. Participants can also come from recommendations and/or requirements with NSW Community Corrections.

ENGAGE is a brief voluntary intervention for perpetrators of intimate partner violence. ENGAGE is free and includes a six hour workshop and referrals to support services as required.

ENGAGE engages persons earlier following an initial domestic violence offence or incident, offers opportunities for referrals to support services and encourages program readiness for longer term behaviour change interventions.

Who is eligible?​

ENGAGE is for males over 18 years of age who are at court for:
– an Apprehended Domestic Violence Order and/or
– a domestic violence charge or
– are referred by Community Corrections where they are pre-sentence, or post sentence and not under supervision.

What is involved in the ENAGAGE Program?​

ENGAGE includes a free six-hour group or specialised workshop based on cognitive behaviour therapy and strength-based therapy that provides participants with information and skills to help them better manage stress, identify abusive behaviours, and make positive changes in their lives. Delivered by NGOs registered to deliver Men’s Behaviour Change Programs (MBCP), skilled facilitators cover six modules during the workshop, outlined below:
COPING: Managing emotions, distress tolerance
CARING: Healthy lifestyles
CHANGE: Identifying abuse, changing behaviour
COMMUNICATION: Skills, assumptions, judgements
CHOICES: Action planning
CONNECTION: Family, community, friends

What happens in workshops?​

Participants get support and information to help manage stress, improve communication in relationships and develop a healthier lifestyle. Workshops also include information on legal issues specific to domestic violence and ADVOs.

ENGAGE group workshops are held on a Saturday in a 6 hour session. Individual sessions can be held on week days or week nights.

A certificate is presented on completion of the workshop and can be submitted to the court or to agencies to demonstrate efforts to make positive changes.

 

[MPMonkeys]

A woman was raped in a Minister’s office in Parliament House and it was hushed up.
There won’t be any meaningful political changes in this country.
They’re clueless.

I find it incredible that even though this ‘cover up’ has been thoroughly debunked, people still cling to this deluded belief that there was one.

No wonder Reynolds wants to continue with her lawsuit. Not that it will change the various tin foil hatters minds.


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[Kurve]

Astonishing, the conversation has turned to removing children from homes and family when Aboriginal women are mentioned and when it's the offender that should be removed.

Some posts have been deleted.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

And after the tranquilliser is triggered, and they are in control of a vehicle when tranquillised (legally or illegally), and they crash and kill a car load of people and/or bystanders in the accident, or trigger a petrol station to explode by the crash fire, how are you going to explain that to the public and courts?

Hello BFew - I have been doing a bit of thinking about my "enhanced GPS enabled ankle bracelet tranquilliser delivery system" idea. My phone - an iPhone - has a feature where you it can go to a message if you receive a call when you are driving. So via GPS it can detect if you are driving vs walking. So, incorporate that and you'll have no collateral damage. Worst outcome is the perpetrator may fall off a pier and drown. They would of course receive education and instruction when said ankle bracelet is fitted as to what happens if they breach the exclusion zone of the AVO and what will happen to them if they do and what they should do if they are dumb enough to do it. They'd be told to sit down where it is safe to do so and assume the fetal position and the cops will come and pick you up soon.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Astonishing, the conversation has turned to removing children from homes and family when Aboriginal women are mentioned and when it's the offender that should be removed.

Some posts have been deleted.

Perfectly said. Has happened for far too long.

 

[Underarrest_]

Hello BFew - I have been doing a bit of thinking about my "enhanced GPS enabled ankle bracelet tranquilliser delivery system" idea. My phone - an iPhone - has a feature where you it can go to a message if you receive a call when you are driving. So via GPS it can detect if you are driving vs walking. So, incorporate that and you'll have no collateral damage. Worst outcome is the perpetrator may fall off a pier and drown. They would of course receive education and instruction when said ankle bracelet is fitted as to what happens if they breach the exclusion zone of the AVO and what will happen to them if they do and what they should do if they are dumb enough to do it. They'd be told to sit down where it is safe to do so and assume the fetal position and the cops will come and pick you up soon.

View attachment 1980001

Hi Brian Oblivion, I hope you don’t mind me commenting here. It seems like you’re putting a lot of thought into coming up with a good preventative measure but I think there would be some liability if the perpetrator fell off a pier and drowned or as another scenario was maybe hit by a car (which could also cause injury to others.)
An anklet bracelet would at least stop some perpetrators if the police are able to make it to the scene on time. Security cameras which can be linked to phones are often a part of a safety plan and can also be a preventive with the victim having fair warning and again if the police are able to make it to the scene on time.

 

[MPMonkeys]

Hi Brian Oblivion, I hope you don’t mind me commenting here. It seems like you’re putting a lot of thought into coming up with a good preventative measure but I think there would be some liability if the perpetrator fell off a pier and drowned or as another scenario was maybe hit by a car (which could also cause injury to others.)
An anklet bracelet would at least stop some perpetrators if the police are able to make it to the scene on time. Security cameras which can be linked to phones are often a part of a safety plan and can also be a preventive with the victim having fair warning and again if the police are able to make it to the scene on time.

Why would we want to be taking some drastic action over an 'epidemic' that has largely been invented given that Australian murder rates have been trending down for the last 30 years?

In fact, we have almost halved instances of murder fron 800 to just over 400 in the last 20 years.

Its become almost hysterical the latest commentary from all sections of the media. We are actually doing good things. The trend is reducing. There is no 'crisis'. Why would we want to change an approach that seems to be working?

 

[Underarrest_]

Why would we want to be taking some drastic action over an 'epidemic' that has largely been invented given that Australian murder rates have been trending down for the last 30 years?

In fact, we have almost halved instances of murder fron 800 to just over 400 in the last 20 years.

Its become almost hysterical the latest commentary from all sections of the media. We are actually doing good things. The trend is reducing. There is no 'crisis'. Why would we want to change an approach that seems to be working?

I think what we’ve been discussing is the ‘trend’ in the increase of victims in the past four months, dying at the hands of perpetrators (from one per week to one every four days.) There’s no harm in talking about ways to stop or at least decrease this. Some current measures are effective but there’s always room for improvement.

 

[jason_recliner]

Why would we want to be taking some drastic action over an 'epidemic' that has largely been invented given that Australian murder rates have been trending down for the last 30 years?

In fact, we have almost halved instances of murder fron 800 to just over 400 in the last 20 years.

Its become almost hysterical the latest commentary from all sections of the media. We are actually doing good things. The trend is reducing. There is no 'crisis'. Why would we want to change an approach that seems to be working?

The vast majority of DV isn't murder. But you know that.

 

[MPMonkeys]

I think what we’ve been discussing is the ‘trend’ in the increase of victims in the past four months, dying at the hands of perpetrators (from one per week to one every four days.) There’s no harm in talking about ways to stop or at least decrease this. Some current measures are effective but there’s always room for improvement.

A four month period over a thirty year sample size represents barely 1%. You can't break the glass based on such a small representation.
As an example, cigarette smoking rates have been steadily decreasing over the past 50 years. If we saw a small uptick in smokers from the period January 2024 to April 2024, do we suddenly start panicking?

These issues need sensible and data based thinking. Not irrational, panic driven and emotive decisions

 

[MPMonkeys]

The vast majority of DV isn't murder. But you know that.

Absolutely but all the recent noise has been about murders though.

 

[jason_recliner]

Absolutely but all the recent noise has been about murders though.

Actually, it hasn't all been about murder. But there has been a lot of discussion about murders of women by men because so many women have been murdered by men this year.

 

[Underarrest_]

A four month period over a thirty year sample size represents barely 1%. You can't break the glass based on such a small representation.
As an example, cigarette smoking rates have been steadily decreasing over the past 50 years. If we saw a small uptick in smokers from the period January 2024 to April 2024, do we suddenly start panicking?

These issues need sensible and data based thinking. Not irrational, panic driven and emotive decisions

The ‘small representation’ is someone’s child.
That’s what preventative action is about, assessing what is working and what can be improved. It’s a work in progress.

 

[MPMonkeys]

The ‘small representation’ is someone’s child.
That’s what preventative action is about, assessing what is working and what can be improved. It’s a working progress.

Well a murder victim is always someone’s child so I fail to see the relevance to be honest.

Yes, we are making progress. I’d rather people focus on what is working instead of throwing it all away based on what mathematically seems to be an outlier rather than a trend.

Making decisions based on emotion rarely works long term.


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[faible]

The ‘small representation’ is someone’s child.
That’s what preventative action is about, assessing what is working and what can be improved. It’s a working progress.

I took his point as being that what we're doing in many ways is and has been working.

The murder rate has dropped substantially over time, so whilst we are quite right to want to have a discussion about it, and see if there's more we can do, a lot of what we're doing has been right.

As the population increases we could even see more victims as a raw number but a decreasing rate. The target should of course, always be zero.

 

[Underarrest_]

Well a murder victim is always someone’s child so I fail to see the relevance to be honest.

Yes, we are making progress. I’d rather people focus on what is working instead of throwing it all away based on what mathematically seems to be an outlier rather than a trend.

Making decisions based on emotion rarely works long term.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

The relevance was the reference to numbers.
It’s a work in progress, we don’t just stop thinking about better strategies, even when things do seem to be improving.

 

[MPMonkeys]

I took his point as being that what we're doing in many ways is and has been working.

The murder rate has dropped substantially over time, so whilst we are quite right to want to have a discussion about it, and see if there's more we can do, a lot of what we're doing has been right.

As the population increases we could even see more victims as a raw number but a decreasing rate. The target should of course, always be zero.

A lot of the issues arise because big spending government strategies rarely have targets or measurables against them. Rather its "Here's a bucket of money, spend it how you see fit."

On this issue, something like:
Drops 10% year on year over a period of 10 years - Keep doing what we are doing
Remains static - look at what is working well and what isn't.
Increases 10% - as above but maybe be more aggressive in looking at new solutions
Increases 20% - existing strategy not working.

 

[Underarrest_]

A lot of the issues arise because big spending government strategies rarely have targets or measurables against them. Rather its "Here's a bucket of money, spend it how you see fit."

On this issue, something like:
Drops 10% year on year over a period of 10 years - Keep doing what we are doing
Remains static - look at what is working well and what isn't.
Increases 10% - as above but maybe be more aggressive in looking at new solutions
Increases 20% - existing strategy not working.

I agree, they need to be making sure the funding is well spent, being distributed where it’s needed the most.