Don's Midfield 07'- What's Sheedy Planning?

[Longy413]

Mark Johnson is our best right foot shot for goal.

Andrew Lovett?

J Hird goes alright as well.

I can't remember McVeigh ever doing much up forward despite being played there a few times. Shows a bit every now and again but i think he'd be wasted there.

McVeigh kicked goals every time he went forward last season.
He's our best front and square crumber, not just around goals but in general play as well. He reads the ball very well off the pack.

He's also our best field kick, the further up the ground he plays the better for our forwards. I reckon if Lloydy had the option of anyone on our list kicking the ball to him, McVeigh would be his choice. He's nearly our best tackler as well.


In a perfect world, I'd probably rotate the two of them between half forward and the midfield.

 

[Longy413]

Cole and Slattery? Unknown talents so far.havn't seen any consistant form from both really.

Cole isn't an unknown talent. He's played 60 or so games of AFL footy.
He's good enough to consistently hold down either a role across half back or as a defensive winger. Providing he can get back to some sort of peak fitness, which looks as if he is at the moment.

Slattery needs to get his body right. But he's been given big jobs in every game he's played at senior level. Has he been beaten yet?

Mcviegh is a now a backman.hes tough,quick and is a deadly passer of the pill.

McVeigh played as many games (possibly more) as a defensive midfielder last season as he did as a backman. He's good at it, but I'm tipping if Cole and Slattery weren't injured he'd be used in a more attacking role.

Remember his final against Geelong? He can be a weapon as an attacking player, we need him getting the ball more often.

 

[marcuz]

In a perfect world, I'd probably rotate the two of them between half forward and the midfield.

I'd have McVeigh playing as a small defender. He is so far the best at that position on our list its not funny. Slattery, Cole and MJ all lack the necessary speed to play that position.

He is a handy midfielder and a decent forward but as a defender he is a potential All-Australian.

 

[Longy413]

He didn't play that many games in defense though.

Slattery goes alright for speed. Damien Harwick wasn't that quick.

Why would we take the bloke who has the best foot skills at the club, when it's a weakness already, and hide him in the back pocket?

Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[marcuz]

He didn't play that many games in defense though.

Slattery goes alright for speed. Damien Harwick wasn't that quick.

Different game now longy. The half forwards play high up these days leaving a lot of space in behind. If you arent quick then guys like B.Johnson, Ablett, Davey etc will have you for breakfast. Slattery was exposed for speed by Rhan Hooper last year, he couldnt get near him all night. Id love to see slats take the place of pev and actually show pev how to be accountable in midfield.

Why would we take the bloke who has the best foot skills at the club, when it's a weakness already, and hide him in the back pocket?

Doesn't make sense to me.

The best footskills?

I'd have him behind Nash, Lovett and Dyson.

As for hiding him well i reckon you play the blokes in the spot they play their best footy and are going to be the most value. He can be a great defender but I doubt he'll be a great midfielder. We have some young blokes who should be ready to step up next year and give us more than enough drive...hopefully.

I have no problems giving him some bursts in midfield but i reckon you start him where he is of most value and im my opinion thats playing on the best small to mid forward.

 

[Longy413]

Id love to see slats take the place of pev and actually show pev how to be accountable in midfield.

But McVeigh has taken the place of Pev and to a lesser extent so has Heff. McVeigh doesn't play purely in the backline, he plays on the oppositions most dangerous player.

Slats taking Pev's place is exactly what I'm suggesting happens. However Pev isn't currently playing that role, McVeigh is.

I'd have him behind Nash, Lovett and Dyson.

Lovett doesn't pass the ball as well as McVeigh.
Dyson has some work to do before he's in our best 22. Nash uses it well, probabl on par with McVeigh.

I have no problems giving him some bursts in midfield but i reckon you start him where he is of most value and im my opinion thats playing on the best small to mid forward.

I agree with playing him where he is most value. I reckon we are a better team is McVeigh is playing as an attacking player between half-forward and the middle.

 

[dave_27]

I agree with playing him where he is most value. I reckon we are a better team is McVeigh is playing as an attacking player between half-forward and the middle.

I dont think he has the ability to put it together consistently as a attacking player to be honest.

He has been given a go of it a few times over his career but he is too in and out of games which was the reason he was put back to the back pocket in '03.

I think he needs to be given a shut down job for him to be of most value to the team.

Whether it be Judd, Brad Johnson or whoever.

 

[Longy413]

I don't reckon he has ever been given a consistent go as an attacking player. The odd game here and there.

In 2003 he probably didn't have the consistency in his game in general. He now is a consistent performer, lets see if we can add something to our midfield/half-forward line by using him in a more attacking role. The footy he has played there has been good IMO.

 

[Crave]

He didn't play that many games in defense though.

Slattery goes alright for speed. Damien Harwick wasn't that quick.

Why would we take the bloke who has the best foot skills at the club, when it's a weakness already, and hide him in the back pocket?
Doesn't make sense to me.

I'd go as far as saying McVeigh's best game for the year was shutting down B. Johnson down back in round 3...small forwards are getting more dangerous these days of breaking a game wide open in the shortest amount of time possible. Id rather have a speedy type nullifying their influence if the game hangs in the balance...

I still havent really taken notice of Cole, so as you suggest...if he can gain some fitness, it could release McVeigh further up field. My query is giving Cole that much responsibility when he's looking to disprove his doubters...

Its all speculation at this stage really, isnt it?

 

[Crave]

I dont think he has the ability to put it together consistently as a attacking player to be honest.

He has been given a go of it a few times over his career but he is too in and out of games which was the reason he was put back to the back pocket in '03.

I think he needs to be given a shut down job for him to be of most value to the team.

Whether it be Judd, Brad Johnson or whoever.

Did you watch him at all this season? He had a stellar season whereever he played. Pretty reckless statement there for a guy who can play at both ends of the ground...

 

[Longy413]

Yep, small forwards are extremely dangerous. Do not disagree with you at all there. But I see no reason why McVeigh couldn't be a dangerous small forward, he is every time he goes down there. He's a good crumber, good on the lead, tackles and a good kick. Why couldn't he be our Paul Chapman?

His game on Brad Johnson was fantastic, so were a lot of his other shut down roles. I'd just rather see him winning the footy rather than stopping others from doing so.

 

[Crave]

We'd have to keep in mind that with Lloyd to return and our wealth of smaller forwards....the forward 50 would be left to Johns and Lloydy to lead into space. Hope it doesnt become a case of over crowding our forward 50 or we'll become exposed on the counter attack. On paper, we're still not as quick as half the teams in the competition. Its that half we need to compete against to make any inroads in 07 and beyond...

 

[Longy413]

Mark McVeigh is our best front and square crumber. I don't think anyone reads the ball off the pack better than him at the club. Not even Lovett, Lovett uses his speed to get to the ball, McVeigh uses smarts. If you get the opportunity, watch him closely and you will see what I mean.

Lloyd and Johns aren't going to mark everything, we need small forwards around them. We also need quality delivery going in there, we also need to create pressure across half forward. McVeigh does that.

I don't think we do have a wealth of small forwards. I reckon we have two and both of those could be spending longer periods in the midfield next season. Monfries and Lovett. Along with McVeigh and Mark Johnson, those four should be rotating between forward and the midfield IMO.

 

[Shane Hird]

I'd go as far as saying McVeigh's best game for the year was shutting down B. Johnson down back in round 3...small forwards are getting more dangerous these days of breaking a game wide open in the shortest amount of time possible. Id rather have a speedy type nullifying their influence if the game hangs in the balance...

I still havent really taken notice of Cole, so as you suggest...if he can gain some fitness, it could release McVeigh further up field. My query is giving Cole that much responsibility when he's looking to disprove his doubters...

Its all speculation at this stage really, isnt it?

Yes Crave,thats what im talking about. There's really no such thing as a back pocket these days but McVeigh has a lot of footy under his belt now and is our perfect small backman. What he does so well now is what Longy said before. He takes care of a small forward and runs the ball up the wings pinpointing passes to our MF's. Sure he can go down forward sometimes and have a shot at goal,depends on who were playing. If its tight and the pressure is on,McV is the man to shut down sum gun small forward eg Didak.

It would be good if Welsh can find that form he had last year and let McV go down the field more,were MJ is just to slow now to play as a backman.

Put MJ in the forward zone and hopefully he plays like WB's, Brad J.

Sheeds will give Cole a go next year,but if he f--ks up after a few games he will be driving to Bendigo before he knows what hit him.

 

[Crave]

Hird would be our fifth...pretty handy for any team to have 5 that could rotate through midfield/forward 50. Im tipping one or two of our draft picks will be this type of player actually. As you suggest, if Monfries and Lovett could remain further in the middle, an elusive small forward with great balance would have us looking very dangerous on paper...part of me was hoping we were looking at luring Milne.

Anyone read that Reynolds was training at Geelong? Insane!

 

[Shane Hird]

Hird would be our fifth...pretty handy for any team to have 5 that could rotate through midfield/forward 50. Im tipping one or two of our draft picks will be this type of player actually. As you suggest, if Monfries and Lovett could remain further in the middle, an elusive small forward with great balance would have us looking very dangerous on paper...part of me was hoping we were looking at luring Milne.

Anyone read that Reynolds was training at Geelong? Insane!

I really hope JR gets a go at another league club. Injuries just stuffed up his rise into Bomberland. Good luck Joel,maybe old D--k is lookin after him

 

[Crave]

I really hope JR gets a go at another league club. Injuries just stuffed up his rise into Bomberland. Good luck Joel,maybe old D--k is lookin after him

I just dont think he has it, wouldve been great to have a Reynolds name running around in our side...he could prove me wrong, but I dont really see any side needing him...possibly Richmond of the top of my head.

 

[marcuz]

But McVeigh has taken the place of Pev and to a lesser extent so has Heff. McVeigh doesn't play purely in the backline, he plays on the oppositions most dangerous player.

Slats taking Pev's place is exactly what I'm suggesting happens. However Pev isn't currently playing that role, McVeigh is.

Yes I realise that but you want McVeigh to freewheel and I was basing my judgements on where they best fit imo. I say we have enough players coming through who can play that attacking role just as well. As a rule I’d have Slats as the defensive midfielder with McVeigh up back. Against somebody like west coast who don’t have a genuine small forward he then can move into the middle and take somebody like Judd, much like he did earlier this year

Of course my theory depends on the likes of Winderlich, Nash, Monfries, dyson etc going up another level over pre-season.

I agree with playing him where he is most value. I reckon we are a better team is McVeigh is playing as an attacking player between half-forward and the middle.

The problem is we leak goals like a bastard up the other end. Nobody can shut down a player on our list like McVeigh can. Its a shame the MJ isn’t the defender he was 4 or 5 year ago as it would make this debate a non issue. We need a defender with the speed and attitude of McVeigh to play as that shut down small defender. Cole could potentially play that role but he needs to shed a few more kilo's and rediscover that pace he once had.

There is no point kicking 16 goals a game if you're conceding 20 down the other end. We need to settle and solidify that back six before we as a club can improve.

 

[dave_27]

Did you watch him at all this season? He had a stellar season whereever he played. Pretty reckless statement there for a guy who can play at both ends of the ground...

It wasnt at all.

I watched a player who spent alot of it playing a defensive role on a opposition player and doing it very well.

Theirs a reason why Sheedy doesnt use him more attackingly and give him more freedom and its because he tends to go missing during games when he does.

 

[Longy413]

The problem is we leak goals like a bastard up the other end. Nobody can shut down a player on our list like McVeigh can. Its a shame the MJ isn’t the defender he was 4 or 5 year ago as it would make this debate a non issue. We need a defender with the speed and attitude of McVeigh to play as that shut down small defender. Cole could potentially play that role but he needs to shed a few more kilo's and rediscover that pace he once had.

There is no point kicking 16 goals a game if your conceding 20 down the other end. We need to settle and solidify that back six before we as a club can improve.

Don't disagree with any of that. However I've got a different theory on why we leak goals and I think it is more to do with our skill level and turnovers rather than our lack of defenders. We don't have a great backline, that's a given, but our inside 50's against to goals against ratio is the same as Sydney's. We just give the opposition too much supply, because of our lack of accountability and because of our lack of skill.

McVeigh has big ticks in both of those areas.

 

[Shane Hird]

Don't disagree with any of that. However I've got a different theory on why we leak goals and I think it is more to do with our skill level and turnovers rather than our lack of defenders. We don't have a great backline, that's a given, but our inside 50's against to goals against ratio is the same as Sydney's. We just give the opposition too much supply, because of our lack of accountability and because of our lack of skill.

McVeigh has big ticks in both of those areas.

Good points Longsta. Which brings us back to the problem,sorry,challenge,on what to do in the MF in 2007. That turn over problem in the center.

Will Watson,Dyson,Stanton,Winderlich,Nash and Lovett go to the next u no what and dominate our center line next year? I hope so.

And there is the chance a one B.Gibbs might be slotted in too.

Monfries will be the one to watch in 2007 i rekon. depending on how much weight he puts on in the PS,we could have him running off the square all day and playing wing > HF,and just let him stay in our Forward half of the ground either having a ping at the goals or drilling it to ML,Johns MJ etc...

I would also like to see Hird contest every single bounce and if the ball goes forward to us,let him stay at HB in case it comes back quick.He might have one season left so why not put him in the guts every bounce and let him kick it out or handpass and feed it to Jobe,JJ,Pev etc....

 

[Darealrath]

Andrew Lovett?

J Hird goes alright as well.

I meant set shot. MJ has Hird covered easily. Lovett is good but not better than MJ imo. Very reliable.

Why would we take the bloke who has the best foot skills at the club, when it's a weakness already, and hide him in the back pocket?

Doesn't make sense to me.

Clement, Wirrpanda, C. Johnson, Gilbee, Hunt etc all play a lot of footy deep in defence for their clubs and would be in the best couple kicks at their club.

 

[Longy413]

I meant set shot. MJ has Hird covered easily. Lovett is good but not better than MJ imo. Very reliable.

I reckon Lovett is our best behind Lloyd. But that's a debate for another time (someone start a thread ).
Although he wasn't as accurate this year as he was last year.

Clement, Wirrpanda, C. Johnson, Gilbee, Hunt etc all play a lot of footy deep in defence for their clubs and would be in the best couple kicks at their club.

Few of those except Clement play on dangerous forwards. They don't play on the kind of guys McVeigh has been playing on. They play as attacking backmen, that isn't what people are proposing for McVeigh.

 

[Shane Hird]

Just one thing that has totally nothing to do with the subject...

I just read that Tristan Cartledge is training with Hawthorn!


Is that old news? or did someone already post this interesting/useless piece of gossip?

Good news for the young bloke anyway,hope he gets on their list and continues his AFL career

 

[Longy413]

Don't think it's been mentioned on this board, but it's been public knowledge for a few days.

He'd have to be a rookie list chance.