Discussion Draft dates & queries (including thunda's huge OP)

[stkildathunda]

OUT OF CONTRACT
Raphael Clarke - Unrestricted Free Agent
Jason Blake - Unrestricted Free Agent
Tom Ledger
Jamie Cripps - Wants to go back to WA

ROOKIES (Note pretty sure all rookies are on 1 year contracts)

Tom Curren
Jackson Ferguson
Warrick Andreoli
Sam Dunnel
Darren Minchington
Cameron Shenton
Jordan Staley

POSSIBLE DELISTMENTS
Dean Polo - OFFICIALLY DELISTED
Brett Peake - OFFICIALLY DELISTED
Raph Clarke
Nicolas Winmar - is contracted next year but not sure he has what it takes. Really struggles at VFL level.
Sam Crocker - OFFICIALLY DELISTED

POSSIBLE RETIRE
Jason Blake - Wants to play on in 2013 but will have to wait and see if he's in Saints plans

ROOKIES TO BE PROMOTED
Sam Dunell
Jackson Ferguson
Tom Curren

ROOKIES TO RETAIN
Darren Minchington
Warrick Andreoli - Was super impressive early before doing his shoulder, deserves another year
Jordan Staley - Big guys need more then 1 season to impress so will get another year I think.

POSSIBLE ROOKIE DELISTMENTS
Daniel Archer - OFFICIALLY DELISTED
Cameron Shenton - Just not sure he has what it takes, although last month since moving down back has been impressive

TRADE BAIT
Farren Ray - Might be looking to go elsewhere as really has been harshly treated this season
Clint Jones - Seems to be on outer in last part of season.
Jamie Cripps - See "rumours" section below
Tom Ledger - Still unsigned and was pretty much unfairly overlooked for games this year. From WA and could possibly be used to try secure player from WA?

WHAT WE NEED
Key Defender
Key Forward
Backup Ruck
Midfielders

Not sure we really need a pure ruckman at this stage as McEvoy is our #1 and Stanley is #2. What we need is someone that is mature that can take step up if we need. Kind of like Orren Stephenson at Cats. Key Defender speaks for itself, whilst we really need some big forwards as we have none coming through and Riewoldt wont be around forever.

I still strongly believe we need more potential A-Grade quality midfielders and you can never have too many midfielders.

RUMOURS

Jamie Cripps - Im led to believe Crippa is going to be on trade table. There's two different versions on this, he is homesick and he wants to go back to WA and he was homesick but has now settled into Melbourne but from what I know is happy with going home or staying at club.

Either way he is unsigned and the club will be putting him up to try and secure a player from WA. Remember to get quality players in you have to give up something, you can't just give them late picks an some crappy players.

Confirmed: Cripps, 20, has informed the Saints he would like to be traded to West Coast so he can return to his hometown of Perth. Chris Pelchen confirmed the request to The Age.

"Yes, Jamie's manager has indicated his interest in returning home, but we are still hopeful of being able to [get] him to stay," Pelchen said.

Josh Caddy - Has announced he wants to come back to Melbourne and if Goddard leaves I believe we will try use our compo pick (13) to try secure Caddy. Its basically between us and Geelong and given we have better compo pick then Cats we'd be in box seat.

Tom Hickey - Saints are making huge play to try secure the young Gold Coast ruckman. Rumours have us very close to securing him on 3 year deal. He is a project player still, will most likely only play 10-12 games next year if needed. He is as good mark as Ben McEvoy and is much better tap ruckman. But he wont be walk up start next year, he'll be backup as he's still learning and developing.

Jason Blake - A decision on Blakes future wont be made until after trade period.He thinks he has good couple years left & wants play on.

Brendon Goddard - Im 90% certain BJ is all but signed at Essendon. Expect announcement next week.
RUMOUR CONFIRMED: Has officially signed at Essendon.

Mitch Brown (WCE) - Saints are apparently keen to try secure Brown who hasnt been given a fair go due to other players in his position. Is contracted so would have to pay overs to get him. Is injury prone and honestly not sure is what we exactly need.

Tony Micale - Not a player, but will be announced within next week or two that he is new assistant coach/development coach.

Farren Ray - Has reportedly met with Melbourne last week.


Scott Watters has put an end to the salary cap "issues" that the media "experts" keep going on about.

“There’s a lot of speculation that swirls around this football club about our TPP and salary cap pressure.” said Scott Watters.

“Like most clubs that have come out of a couple of Grand Finals, and many clubs will be in the same situation, it can be tight and it needs to be managed. So twelve months ago we needed to have a really strong strategic plan on where our salary cap was at.”

“We are in a very sound salary cap position. And for anyone to think that that would impact or a negative salary cap position would impact on our ability to keep players they would be sadly mistaken and that is an untruth.”

“We are in a very sound position and that needs to go on public record.”

Obviously it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that we need another ruckman and a key defender. I don't believe we need an actual ruckman, we need the Leigh Brown style pinch hitting ruckman that can play down back, up forward and occasionally in ruck.

Shaun McKernan (Adelaide) - He is a key position forward at 198cm & 98kg that can also play in the ruck. Pretty sure he also plays down back. Is in and out of the Crows lineup so could potentially be swayed for move for more opportunity. Is only 22 so has lot footy left in him. Probably cost first round pick though.

There's also Jackson Trengove (Port) that would be ideal but not sure if he recently signed or not that could be worth looking at.

As for key defender, Troy Chaplin (Port) is a free agent and is 195cm & 100k. He's only 26 and has rumoured to have put contract talks on hold as he weighs up if he wants to come home or not.

Hamish Shepheard. Is a key defender/ruckman type and shouldered the ruck load today. Concerns over his shoulders but is definitely one to keep eye. Hitouts: 143 (10.2 per game), Disposals: 10.79, Marks: 2.35, Tackles: 3.14, Been named in best 6 times.

Sandringham's ruckman, 206cm giant Michael Sikora could be worth putting on rookie list as backup for McEvoy if he goes down. Is still learning the game but has dramatically improved this year. Wins hitouts nearly every week, but doesnt do a great deal around the ground at moment. But that will come in time. Reckon could benefit from being in Saints Academy for year or two.

Myke Cook and Adam Cockie are other ones from Sandringham id strongly consider picking in rookie draft. Cockie would be awesome replacement for Lenny. Both have been dominating this year. Cockie is a tackling machine (averages about 9 a game)

Adam Cockie

In 2012 Adam Cockie averaged 20.21 disposals, 2.95 marks & 7.63 tackles a game.

Games: 19
Kicks: 200
Handballs: 184
Disposals: 384
Marks: 56
Tackles: 145
FF: 19
FA: 36
Hitouts: 4
Goals: 8
Behinds: 10
DreamTeam: 88.89

MYKE COOK

In 2012 Myke Cook averaged 18.94 disposals, 3.17 marks, 4.94 tackles.

Games: 18
Kicks: 191
Handballs: 150
Disposals: 341
Marks: 57
Tackles: 89
FF: 23
FA: 18
Hitouts: 4
Goals: 19
Behinds: 18
DreamTeam: 83.61

Another option is ex-Saint rookie Khan Haretuku, who has kicked 30 goals this season. He's developed into one of the VFL's finest forwards after three years on Frankston's list. He's 199cm & 101kg and he believes he is much more physically and mentally prepared for a second crack at an AFL career. He would have got the attention of Saints with 12 marks and 4 goals in a game against the Zebs.

Andy Otten. Seems bit out of favour at Adelaide this year (injuries aside) but when he is up and going is very very good playing.

Josh Toy apparently wants to come home to Victoria, as does Josh Caddy. Could both be worth looking at, especially Caddy. Maverick Weller is another Gold Coast player that apparently wants out.

Tom Gillies from Geelong? From memory Hawthorn (or a club did) had crack at getting him last year but he stayed but has only managed 1 game this season so might be keen to move to another club for more opportunity.

Still believe we should go hard at a contracted player as you never know what you can do. With Free Agency around clubs will start thinking they might be best to trade player year early then risk losing them for nothing via Free Agency

As for our own list its hard to tell at moment what Watters is thinking.



Here is the list of all available free agents (will try update it soon so we know who is available)

Adelaide Crows

Brisbane Lions
None

Carlton
Jordan Russell Unrestricted
Bret Thornton Unrestricted

Collingwood
Ben Johnson Unrestricted

Essendon
Ricky Dyson Unrestricted
Dustin Fletcher Unrestricted
David Hille Unrestricted
Nathan Lovett-Murray Unrestricted
Angus Monfries Restricted
Henry Slattery Unrestricted

Fremantle
Luke McPharlin Unrestricted

Geelong Cats
Shannon Byrnes Unrestricted
Josh Hunt Unrestricted

Hawthorn
Thomas Murphy Unrestricted
Michael Osborne Unrestricted
Clinton Young Unrestricted

Melbourne
Matthew Bate Unrestricted
Lynden Dunn Unrestricted
Brent Moloney Restricted
Jared Rivers Unrestricted

North Melbourne
None

Port Adelaide
Troy Chaplin Restricted
Brett Ebert Unrestricted
Danyle Pearce Restricted
Steven Salopek Unrestricted
Jacob Surjan Unrestricted

Richmond
Luke McGuane Restricted

St Kilda
Jason Blake Unrestricted
Raphael Clarke Unrestricted

Sydney Swans
Jude Bolton Unrestricted
Jarred Moore Unrestricted

West Coast Eagles
Quinten Lynch Unrestricted
Mark Nicoski Unrestricted

Western Bulldogs
Will Minson Unrestricted

Free agency rules

HOW THE SYSTEM OPERATES FOR ALL PLAYERS ACROSS THE COMPETITION -
A player has served seven seasons or fewer of AFL football at one club, and is now out of contract.
The player is not eligible for free agency if his club wishes to retain him. He may only move clubs via a trade or the draft. If he delists himself, he is subject to the draft, and may be selected by any club.

A player has served seven seasons or fewer of AFL football at one club, and has been delisted by his club.
The player is a free agent and is eligible to field offers from all rival AFL clubs.
The player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.
The player can move AUTOMATICALLY to the new club of his choice.
His original club, which chose to delist him, does not receive any compensation pick for the loss of the player.

A player has served eight or more seasons of AFL football at one club, is one of the top 25 per cent highest-paid players at his club, and is now out of contract for the first time since reaching eight seasons of service. (restricted free agent)
The player is eligible to field offers from all rival AFL clubs.
If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.
His club has the right to match the presented offer.
If the club matches the offer, he may choose to remain with his original club, seek a trade or enter the Draft.
If the club does not or can not match the offer, the player can move to the new club of his choice.
His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period.

A player has served eight or more seasons of AFL football at one club, is NOT one of the top 25 per cent highest-paid players at his club, and is now out of contract for the first time since reaching eight seasons of service. (unrestricted free agent)
The player is eligible to field offers from all rival AFL clubs.
If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.
His club does NOT have the right to match the presented offer, and the player can move AUTOMATICALLY to the new club of his choice.
His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period.

A player has served ten or more seasons of AFL football at one club, has already come out of contract once in the period after serving his first eight or more seasons at his club, and is now out of contract. (Unrestricted free agent)
The player is eligible to field offers from all rival clubs.
If he wishes to change clubs, the player must decide on the best offer of his choice from one rival club.
His club does NOT have the right to match the presented offer, and the player can move AUTOMATICALLY to the new club of his choice.
His original club will receive a compensation pick for the loss of the player, on an AFL-determined formula to apply where clubs lose more free agents than they gain in any single transfer period.

KEY DATES
August 1, 2pm - Nomination deadline for 17-year-old players under second and final year of GWS Giants Trade Incentive Rules.
October 1 - Commencement of Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency period.
October 5, 2pm - Nomination of Father-Son Eligible Players and Academy Bidding Players.
October 8, 10am - Father Son Eligible Players and Academy Players Bid Meeting.
October 8 - Commencement of Trade Period.
October 19, 2pm - Deadline for GWS Giants to pre-list balance of any uncontracted players under List Establishment rules.
October 19, 5pm - Close to Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.
October 23, 5pm - Trade Incentive Rule (17 year-olds). Deadline for trading.
October 26, 2pm - End of Trade Period.
October 26, 2.10pm - Trade Incentive (17 year-olds) Selection.
October 31, 2pm - List Lodgement One.
November 1 - Commencement to Delisted Player Free Agency Period.
November 13, 2pm - End to Delisted Player Free Agency Period.
November 13, 2pm - Out of Contract Listed Player Draft Nomination deadline, New Player Draft Nomination deadline.
November 13, 2pm - Deadline for Nomination of any use of 2012 GWS Giants Compensation Selections.
November 15, 2pm - List Lodgement Two.
November 16, 2pm - Delisted Player Draft Nomination deadline, Non-Retained Rookies Draft Nomination deadline, Nominated of Queensland Zone Priority Selections and Nomination of NSW/ACT Zone Priority Selections.
November 22 - NAB AFL Draft, Gold Coast Convention Centre.
November 23 - Second Delisted Player Free Agency Period commences.
November 28, 2pm - Out of Contract Listed Players Nomination deadline, International Players Nomination deadline, Players Not Registered / Played Three Years deadline, NSW Scholarship and International Scholarship Players deadline.
November 28, 5pm - Second Delisted Player Free Agency Period ends.
November 29, 2pm - List Lodgement Three.
December 4, 2pm - Delisted Player Nomination deadline.
December 4 - Deadline for GWS Giants to pre-list balance of any previously listed or previously nominated for draft players under List Establishment rules.
December 11, 11am - NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft.
December 11, 11.05am - Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast Suns, GWS Giants and Sydney Swans Eligible Pre-Selected Rookies.
December 11, 11.10am - NAB AFL Rookie Draft.


Current Draft Order (asterisks denote 'TBC' after finals):

#1 GWS
#2 GC
#3 Melb -- Possible Jack Viney Father/Son Pick (depends if GWS or GC bid for him, if not their 2nd round pick must be used)
#4 Scully Compo 1 - Melb
#5 Bulldogs
#6 Ward compo - Bulldogs
#7 Port Adelaide
#8 Lions
#9 Richmond
#10 Ess -- Joe Daniher Father/Son Pick
#11 Carlton
#12 St K
#13 Scully Compo 2 - Melb
#14* NM
#15* Freo
#16* Geel
#17* WCE
#18* Coll
#19* Swans
#20* Adelaide
#21* Hawthorn
#22* Davis compo - GWS
#23* Rischitelli Compo - Bris

2nd round
#24 GWS
#25 GC
#26 Melb
#27 Dogs
#28 Port
#29 Krakouer compo - Richmond
#30 Brisbane
#31 Richmond
#32 Ess
#33 Carlton
#34 St K
#35* NM
#36* Freo
#37* Geel
#38* WCE
#39* Coll
#40* Swans
#41* Adelaide
#42* Hawthorn

3rd round
#43 GWS
#44 GC
#45 Melb
#46 Dogs
#47 Reid Compo - Dogs

Then as per usual after that.

Oh look a pretty picture explaining Free Agency!

 

[sauce_head]

When do they announce rookie elevations? Dunell a dead cert. very impressed by him.

 

[stkildathunda]

When do they announce rookie elevations? Dunell a dead cert. very impressed by him.

National Draft day i think, pretty sure they dont announce them before hand

 

[StFly]

National Draft day i think, pretty sure they dont announce them before hand

Rookies are noted via list lodgment with the AFL (or were as of '09, I haven't updated that pdf)

21.5.2 Primary List
A Club may apply to the AFL to transfer a Player or Players from its
Rookie List onto its Primary List:- My edit: otherwise known as elevating.

(a) on the day when its Primary List is lodged with the AFL prior to
the National Draft Selection Meeting under Rule 4.1 by lodging
with the AFL the form prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 33. In
which case, the Club shall forfeit its last selection or, if more
than one player, its last and each previous draft selection at
the National AFL Draft Selection meeting.

(b) under Rule 31.1.2; or

(c) at any time between the National Draft Selection Meeting and
the day when its Primary List is lodged with the AFL prior to
the Pre-Season Draft Selection Meeting under Rule 5.1, if a
Player’s name has been deleted from that Club’s List under
Rule 5.5 by lodging with the AFL the form prescribed in
Schedule 1 as Form 33

Section 4.1 is nominal list lodgment dates (Oct 31: LL1) Section 31 applies to the LTI temp elevation. And for further reading these statements and more are generally found in the AFL Players Rules and Regulations document. Brought to you by Flyworks because he has nothing better to do than sift through pdf's tonight.

 

[stkildathunda]

Nice detective work there Fly!! But do we as general public find out before the Draft?

 

[StFly]

Nice detective work there Fly!! But do we as general public find out before the Draft?

Nope.

 

[Marlin01]

Fantastic OP.

 

[Squizz]

So now we've got two Goddard threads going?

Just a quick question, is the draft usually televised live?

Big issue though!!!

2012 NAB AFL Draft Thursday 22 November FOX FOOTY
LIVE: 7pm EST (National)

 

[hayes]

Big issue though!!!

2012 NAB AFL Draft Thursday 22 November FOX FOOTY
LIVE: 7pm EST (National)

Beautiful, thanks.

 

[maanco]

Patrick Keane ‏@AFL_PKeane
Any picks received for a NET loss of free agents can be traded, but must be used in the draft this year if not traded and can't be banked.

 

[Highlander35]

NET compensation people. Up to a 1st round in total compensation.

 

[Defacto]

NET compensation people. Up to a 1st round in total compensation.

really? holy crap that changes the game some what.

 

[holllywood]

NET compensation people. Up to a 1st round in total compensation.

what does this mean?

 

[God Save Max King]

what does this mean?

I think it means compensation for all of free agency is pretty much 1 pick. We won't get separate for Goddard and Raph. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if Raph was signed I think that would mean we could sign another free agent and still receive a 1st round pick? Not completely confident, just a guess.

 

[saintsrfreak]

I read somewhere that our pick number is told to us when FA ends on October 19

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

So have we confirmed if we can trade our compensation pick or not? Seen both yes and no answers...

If we can trade it, we obviously need to have it given to us before the end of the trade period.

 

[CHBench]

Yes we can trade it. We won't get it until the end of free agency but that overlaps with the trade period which extends a week past the FA deadline.

 

[goodie23]

When do we find out what pick we get from BJ? Sorry of already mentioned in this or other thread. I am struggling to keep up with it all!

Not exactly clear, but given you get net draft picks rather than compensated for every player I assume it would be at the end of the free agency period on October 19th. Trade time runs from October 8th-October 26th, giving the club a week to part with it

 

[_Maximus_12]

For those who don't know, the national combine starts today. It'll be interesting to see who's stocks rise and fall based on their performance here

 

[goodie23]

So the AFL has put out the list of key dates (apologies if already posted):

Here are the key dates around the Player Rules for the exchange process and the 2012 NAB AFL Draft:

• October 1 – Commencement of Gillette AFL Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency period.
• October 5, 2pm – Nomination of Father-Son Eligible Players and Academy Bidding Players.
• October 8, 10am – Father-Son Eligible Players and Academy Players Bid Meeting.
• October 8 – Commencement of Gillette AFL Trade Period.
• October 19, 2pm – Deadline for GWS Giants to pre-list balance of any uncontracted players under List Establishment rules.
• October 19, 5pm – Close to Gillette AFL Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.
• October 22 - Restricted Free Agency Matching Offer Response Closed
• October 23, 5pm – Trade Incentive Rule (17 year-olds) Deadline for Trading.
• October 26, 2pm – End of Gillette AFL Trade Period.
• October 26, 2.10pm –Trade Incentive (17 year-olds) Selection.
• October 31, 2pm – List Lodgement One.
• November 1 – Commencement to Gillette AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period.
• November 13, 2pm – End to Gillette AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period.
• November 13, 2pm – Out of Contract Listed Player Draft Nomination Deadline, New Player Draft Nomination Deadline.
• November 13, 2pm – Deadline for Nomination of any use of 2012 GWS Giants Compensation Selections.
• November 15, 2pm – List Lodgement Two.
• November 16, 2pm – Delisted Player Draft Nomination Deadline, Non-Retained Rookies Draft Nomination Deadline, Nominated of Queensland Zone Priority Selections and Nomination of NSW/ACT Zone Priority Selections.
• November 22 – NAB AFL Draft, Gold Coast Convention Centre.
• November 23 – Second Gillette AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period commences.
• November 28, 2pm – Out of Contract Listed Players Nomination Deadline, International Players Nomination Deadline, Players Not Registered / Played Three Years Deadline, NSW Scholarship and International Scholarship Players Deadline.
• November 28, 5pm – Second Gillette AFL Delisted Player Free Agency Period ends.
• November 29, 2pm – List Lodgement Three.
• December 4, 2pm – Delisted Player Nomination Deadline.
• December 4 - Deadline for GWS Giants to pre-list balance of any previously listed or previously nominated for draft players under List Establishment rules.
• December 11, 11am – NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft.
• December 11, 11.05am – Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast Suns, GWS Giants and Sydney Swans Eligible Pre-Selected Rookies.
• December 11, 11.10am – NAB AFL Rookie Draft.

Nowhere does it say definitively when free agency compensation picks are distributed.

 

[StFly]

So the AFL has put out the list of key dates (apologies if already posted):

Nowhere does it say definitively when free agency compensation picks are distributed.

Oct 19, clubs are given 3 days (Oct 22) to match offers, FA ends, trade week starts and since FA compo can be traded...

It's on the picture the AFLPA distributed in the tiny text bit.

 

[goodie23]

Oct 19, clubs are given 3 days (Oct 22) to match offers, FA ends, trade week starts and since FA compo can be traded...

It's on the picture the AFLPA distributed in the tiny text bit.

We assume October 19th, not necessarily the case. How long does it take the AFL to decide? Do they wait until the 22nd in case of last minute signings, especially as clubs receive net compensation? It's also worth noting that trade period begins on October 8th and spends 11 days running concurrently to free agency.

Point is we don't know for certain and I'll lay decent odds the AFL still haven't decided yet.

 

[Squizz]

Nowhere does it say definitively when free agency compensation picks are distributed.

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/...dard-plans-20120926-26lli.html?skin=text-only

AFL salary cap manager Ken Wood and operations manager Adrian Anderson distributed separate documents to clubs this week outlining free agency rules, compensation and adjustments to the veterans' allowance.

Clubs can ask for an indication of what compensation they would receive for losing a player from the AFL but, as Wood says, will only know the true extent when the free agency period ends on October 19, and by no later than midday on October 23.

 

[goodie23]

Well spotted Squizz

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

Sorry to ask something that has probably been asked too many times ... but when do we find out what draft pick we'll get for Goddard?
I read something today that said not until the end of the trade period, but that doesn't make sense to me (if indeed we need to use that draft pick this year. Surely we could opt to trade it during the trade period)