Drop MacGill

[Cooldude]

Originally posted by Dog Town
Did anyone see Mcgill bowl a variation?I recall one attempt at a flipper and it almost rolled down the pitch.

The dismissal of Tendulkar was an attempt at a straight one, even that one spun. He did bowl some skidders and did rap some batsman on the pads, but they were all missing the stumps, since he doesn't have great control over his other variation like Warne does.

Let's give Macgill a break, he's bowling against one of the greatest batting lineups ever. The likes of Hogg will die pitifully in that test match.

 

[wagstaff]

Originally posted by Cooldude


Let's give Macgill a break, he's bowling against one of the greatest batting lineups ever. The likes of Hogg will die pitifully in that test match.

Agree that Hogg would be unlikely to do any better, his big chance was against Zimbabwe at the SCG a few months ago and he failed to take it.

Actually, out of MacGill, Hogg and Katich, it would be Katich who would be the most likely to trouble the Indian batsmen.

 

[Crooked Rain]

Originally posted by CatManDo
If you think MacGill should be dropped you are just plain dumb.

MacGill, the leading test wicket taker in the world this year.

MacGill, Australia's leading wicket taker in this series against India.

MacGill, who would surely be, by almost all accounts, the second best leg spinner in the world.


Before you bemoan the absence of Warne, check his record against India. It aint that flash.

Drop MacGill - another ingenious installment in the "drop an Aussie player cause I said so" campaign.

Yes I firmly believe MacGill should NOT play in the Boxing Day Test. So he's Australia's highest wicket taker for the first two tests. Whoop bloody do!! 8 Bloody wickets with half of them tail enders. He bowls heaps more overs than the next trundler in the Aussie side so he has a greater opportunity to get wickets. He is also bought on at opportune times to get wickets like after Bichel got Ganguly he was replaced with MacGill an over later. (who got smashed - GAME OVER!)

Bichel bowled far less overs in the 2nd Test than precious Stuey and got more wickets than him. (all quality wickets I might add)

I think the Aussies should go in with four pacemen in Melbourne and maybe bring MacGill back for Sydney.

He has a good record, but against the Indians he is cannon fodder.

His attitude to batting and fielding is appalling. I was disgusted he didn't at least attempt to have a go at that catch off Sehweg.

Warne may be a clown, but at least he is a team man unlike Stu.

cr.

 

[Crooked Rain]

Originally posted by nicko18
apart from the fact deja-vu would see him get smacked for 150 odd, not really a good idea in a must win game.

And yeah, the series was in the balance after the aussies had just crushed the Indians in the first two tests

And yeah the Indians went bloody close to winning in Sydney and could've quite easily won in Adelaide had Azza scored another 20 runs or so.

So yeah the series was still in the balance with 2 spinner friendly tests to come for the Indians after they lost the first two.

cr.

 

[Cooldude]

Originally posted by Crooked Rain
Yes I firmly believe MacGill should NOT play in the Boxing Day Test. So he's Australia's highest wicket taker for the first two tests. Whoop bloody do!! 8 Bloody wickets with half of them tail enders. He bowls heaps more overs than the next trundler in the Aussie side so he has a greater opportunity to get wickets. He is also bought on at opportune times to get wickets like after Bichel got Ganguly he was replaced with MacGill an over later. (who got smashed - GAME OVER!)

Bowl lots of overs, getting tailenders out, geez, that sounds like Murali. But still, however you dislike Macgill, there's daylight between him and the other spinners currently availble, so we'll stick with him for this series until Warne returns. But Stu deserves better, he hardly let his country down when he's called upon to play, and the selectors certainly won't drop him.

Originally posted by Crooked Rain

Bichel bowled far less overs in the 2nd Test than precious Stuey and got more wickets than him. (all quality wickets I might add)

Before the second test, everyone were calling for Bichel's head.

Originally posted by Crooked Rain

I think the Aussies should go in with four pacemen in Melbourne and maybe bring MacGill back for Sydney.

Never like the idea of four pacemen, you need some variation, it'd just get dull and boring and the over rate would be so slow I'd rather watch children's shows in some other channel it would be more fun.

Originally posted by Crooked Rain

He has a good record, but against the Indians he is cannon fodder.

Any spinners would be

Originally posted by Crooked Rain

His attitude to batting and fielding is appalling. I was disgusted he didn't at least attempt to have a go at that catch off Sehweg.

Warne may be a clown, but at least he is a team man unlike Stu.

cr.

Sometimes it'd very unfair for Macgill to have to cope with comparisons between him and Warne, Warne is possibly the greatest bowler of our generation, Macgill is Macgill, he is no Warne, and certainly would never be as good, but he is his own player and we'd gotta learn to accept it.

 

[Crooked Rain]

Originally posted by Cooldude
Bowl lots of overs, getting tailenders out, geez, that sounds like Murali. But still, however you dislike Macgill, there's daylight between him and the other spinners currently availble, so we'll stick with him for this series until Warne returns. But Stu deserves better, he hardly let his country down when he's called upon to play, and the selectors certainly won't drop him.



Before the second test, everyone were calling for Bichel's head.



Never like the idea of four pacemen, you need some variation, it'd just get dull and boring and the over rate would be so slow I'd rather watch children's shows in some other channel it would be more fun.



Any spinners would be

And that is why I like the idea of four paceman on a track that may offer something to them. Have your kids shows, the Aussies need to win this one.

Katich looks better than boring old round the wicket stuey anyway.

cr.

 

[Becker]

I think the thing to remember here is Australia have a history of having at least one leg spinner in their team, and that is why they have had great success in Australia. Usually the wicket will crumble on the 4th and 5th days and leggies aim for the foot holes.
Having said that, we've usually had a leggie good enough to be in the team. MacGill is not good enough to be selected, so do we play a leg spinner for the sake of having a leggie, or do we pick our best team?
Personally, I think Cameron White would be a good experiment. His batting is sound, fielding good, and although he doesn't spin the ball much, he hurries onto the bat much in the same way as Kumble does.
White has to be a better option at this stage than MacGill. Our overall fielding standard is suffering, and we may as well declare at the fall of the 9th wicket for all the good he does.

 

[Bombers_Forever]

His fielding yesterday was pathetic. He did not even attempt to catch that ball. Worst fieldsmen in history. I don't rate MacGill like many posters in this thread.

I would say drop him but White has not played enough to be an automatic choice. Warne will take his spot and White will take over from Warne.

 

[Minkus_Swan]

Funny how this always happens after we lose a test. Find a scapegoat (Martyn, MacGill) and he should never play for Australia again etc. If you think that macgill got spanked, just wait until Cameron White or Hogg would go against a team that is brought up on spinners. It won't be pretty.

If the Indians have any weakness in their batting, it is against quality fast bowlers. I would expect Lee and possibly a roughy like Nicholson or even a youngster croweater to play in the boxing day test - if both Gillespie and Williams fail to be fit.

 

[TheMase]

I think we are all forgetting that this match was played on a beautiful batting strip against the best spin playing nation in the world.

If you want to blame anything for the loss, blame the fact that Australia didn't get past 200 in their second innings. You can blame the batting for this loss, not the bowlers.

Add to the fact that the temperature was getting close to 40, and the Indians were right at home.

MacGill also had to bowl a lot of overs yesterday due to the heat and the fact that Williams and Gillespie were battling injuries.

There is no way he should be dropped. He is allowed the occational bad match, especially against the best spinning nation in the world on a fantastic batting strip (one that the Aussies did not capitalise on in the 2nd dig).

Stupidity.

 

[corporal]

It is amazing how short the memory of Australian public really is.

Over the last three years the Australian team has been one of the greatest in Test history, Yet we lose one test and now eveyone is screaming for blood.

3 of our top bowlers are out injured and we struggle to bowl out a top class batting side on one of the flatest decks Adelaide has ever seen, and everyone seems shocked that we haven't bowled India out for under 200. Take the top three bowlers out of any test team and see how they perform against Dravid, Laxman etc..

Now everyone has suddenly forgetten that MacGill has 140 wickets @ 27 (not bad for a terrible leggy) and has been doing a fantastic fill in job for Warne or that Martyn averages 46 and that Bichel.. opps I forgot he got a couple of wickets so now everyone loves him again

Luckily Steve Waugh is retiring as I shudder to imagine the threads that would be posted otherwise

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by Crooked Rain
I think the Boxing Day Test is the perfect time to blood Vic leggie Cameron White into the Aussie team.

I think MacGill offers nothing the Indians haven't seen before and all he is good for against a batting side as competent as the Indians is outfoxing a couple of tail enders with full tosses.

White can also bat while Macgill just doesn't seem to give a **** with the willow in hand.

Warne will obviously return, but White should be groomed as his back up.

Maybe use MacGill in Sydney, but something differnent must be tried in the must-win melbourne game.

cr.

Let me guess. You are a Victorian.

MacGill didn't bowl well in this test, but his record is fantastic. He deserves to play everything until Warne comes back. Magilla's record in test matches is still way better than White's is in first class. When Cameron White actually does something that deserves being selected, I'm sure he will get his chance. Better to be picked on merit, than on potential.

 

[corporal]

Re: Re: Drop MacGill

Originally posted by ZimZum
Let me guess. You are a Victorian.

MacGill didn't bowl well in this test, but his record is fantastic. He deserves to play everything until Warne comes back. Magilla's record in test matches is still way better than White's is in first class. When Cameron White actually does something that deserves being selected, I'm sure he will get his chance. Better to be picked on merit, than on potential.

True True, I love White but I think for him to get in the test side he will effectively need to bat at 6, star at first slip and then provide variety with his leggies

 

[CatManDo]

Originally posted by TheMase
I think we are all forgetting that this match was played on a beautiful batting strip against the best spin playing nation in the world.

If you want to blame anything for the loss, blame the fact that Australia didn't get past 200 in their second innings. You can blame the batting for this loss, not the bowlers.

Add to the fact that the temperature was getting close to 40, and the Indians were right at home.

MacGill also had to bowl a lot of overs yesterday due to the heat and the fact that Williams and Gillespie were battling injuries.

There is no way he should be dropped. He is allowed the occational bad match, especially against the best spinning nation in the world on a fantastic batting strip (one that the Aussies did not capitalise on in the 2nd dig).

Stupidity.

Finally some perspective.

The incredible success of the Australian team has obviously spoilt some supporters to the point of stupidity. Calling for MacGill to be dropped because of this test result is complete and utter bollocks.

 

[ZimZum]

Re: Re: Re: Drop MacGill

Originally posted by corporal
True True, I love White but I think for him to get in the test side he will effectively need to bat at 6, star at first slip and then provide variety with his leggies

When he does all that for Victoria, and backs it up with some good numbers, then he has my blessing to take over from Warney.

 

[marcuz]

Originally posted by corporal
True True, I love White but I think for him to get in the test side he will effectively need to bat at 6, star at first slip and then provide variety with his leggies

I don't rate White as a spin bowler. He turns the ball less than Gavin Robertson. But his batting is good and getting better. His fielding exceptional and bowling is handy at best. He will become a pretty good all rounder but i don't think you want him spearheading your spin attack.

 

[corporal]

Hopefully Warne can work with him in spinning the ball more because he is a fairly accurate spinner

 

[Cooldude]

Originally posted by corporal
Hopefully Warne can work with him in spinning the ball more because he is a fairly accurate spinner

Nah, White will never spin the ball sideways much, his arm action doesn't warrant that, he'll be a Kumble type, but looking at the way he bowls, he'll definitely be a better bowler than Kumble, he should stick with his rather strange method.

A lot of our supporters are definitely spoiled, for the last three years we would win and win and win and win, so when one loss comes around, it's crisis and the team's crap, it's amazing the amount of knocking Macgill and the Australian fielding in general got, when the players had one bad match on the field when they were fielding in almost 40 degrees heat, or when Macgill has had one off match.

 

[Crooked Rain]

Originally posted by Becker
I think the thing to remember here is Australia have a history of having at least one leg spinner in their team, and that is why they have had great success in Australia. Usually the wicket will crumble on the 4th and 5th days and leggies aim for the foot holes.
Having said that, we've usually had a leggie good enough to be in the team. MacGill is not good enough to be selected, so do we play a leg spinner for the sake of having a leggie, or do we pick our best team?
Personally, I think Cameron White would be a good experiment. His batting is sound, fielding good, and although he doesn't spin the ball much, he hurries onto the bat much in the same way as Kumble does.
White has to be a better option at this stage than MacGill. Our overall fielding standard is suffering, and we may as well declare at the fall of the 9th wicket for all the good he does.

I think we must also remember we are playing India.

You only have a look at Warne's record against them to realise spin doesn't bother them in the slightest.

I originally thought of dropping MacGill in favour of another spinner for Melbourne, but now I'm convinced four pacemen is the way to go. But if we are to play a spinner I agree White offers a better all-round package than MacGill.

India is a different kettle of fish everyone, spin isn't the go.

MacGill must be dropped for this game!

cr.

 

[Crooked Rain]

Originally posted by TheMase
I think we are all forgetting that this match was played on a beautiful batting strip against the best spin playing nation in the world.

If you want to blame anything for the loss, blame the fact that Australia didn't get past 200 in their second innings. You can blame the batting for this loss, not the bowlers.

Add to the fact that the temperature was getting close to 40, and the Indians were right at home.

MacGill also had to bowl a lot of overs yesterday due to the heat and the fact that Williams and Gillespie were battling injuries.

There is no way he should be dropped. He is allowed the occational bad match, especially against the best spinning nation in the world on a fantastic batting strip (one that the Aussies did not capitalise on in the 2nd dig).

Stupidity.

MacGill always bowls heaps of overs, that's why he is in a position to get heaps more wickets.

He bowled way more over than anyone else in Adelaide, yet Bichel got more wickets than him. Even Katich equalled him on the wicket tally despite hardly bowling.

Bloody Sachin bowled 6 overs and turned the ball sideways to get 2 wickets in 6 overs.

cr.

 

[ScouseCat]

Short term: I would drop MacGill for the Melbourne test and play 4 fast bowlers plus Simon Katich. (Bracken, Lee, Bichel and hopefully one of Gillespie and Williams)

Longer term: Shane Warne will be back after February 10th next year, and will probably come straight back into the team anyway.

Long term: Cameron White with a bit of luck and a lot of work.

 

[Crooked Rain]

Firmly agree.

 

[Cooldude]

Originally posted by Crooked Rain
MacGill always bowls heaps of overs, that's why he is in a position to get heaps more wickets.

He bowled way more over than anyone else in Adelaide, yet Bichel got more wickets than him. Even Katich equalled him on the wicket tally despite hardly bowling.

Bloody Sachin bowled 6 overs and turned the ball sideways to get 2 wickets in 6 overs.

cr.

Now you're just being silly, Katich's wickets were batsmen playing silly shots at him coz he's a part-time bowler and they're thinking of easy runs. Bichel's a fast bowler, how do you think he'd bowl more overs than Macgill? And fast bowlers always have a better strike rate.

Again, Sachin's a part-timer, Martyn and Waugh got way ahead of themselves and tried to play the big cover drive off a leggie who's turning it big time, you'd never see Indians doing that to Macgill.

You're saying we should play 4 fast bowlers, 3 of them are identical, all bowling at the same pace, the same length, and aiming to bowl it on or around off stump. How easy would that be for the Indians to play them? Brett Lee's the only aggressive bowler, and he just came back from injury.

You need variations in your attack, and Macgill bowled very very well in the first test and did a good containing job and cleaned up the tail, don't ever underestimate the value of cleaning up the tail, coz Indian's tailenders are better than you think, and a world class wrist spinner like Macgill can make lightwork of them. He didn't bowl all that badly in the second test either, he was bowling on possibly the best batting track in the world and then someone like you shouts for his head. Jesus Christ, thank god you ain't the selector.

 

[demon_dave]

Originally posted by CatManDo
If you think MacGill should be dropped you are just plain dumb.

MacGill, the leading test wicket taker in the world this year.

MacGill, Australia's leading wicket taker in this series against India.

MacGill, who would surely be, by almost all accounts, the second best leg spinner in the world.


Before you bemoan the absence of Warne, check his record against India. It aint that flash.

Drop MacGill - another ingenious installment in the "drop an Aussie player cause I said so" campaign.

he gets all his wickets against the lower ranked teams, he is CRAP and should not be in the team...................Dave

 

[Crooked Rain]

Originally posted by Cooldude
Now you're just being silly, Katich's wickets were batsmen playing silly shots at him coz he's a part-time bowler and they're thinking of easy runs. Bichel's a fast bowler, how do you think he'd bowl more overs than Macgill? And fast bowlers always have a better strike rate.

Again, Sachin's a part-timer, Martyn and Waugh got way ahead of themselves and tried to play the big cover drive off a leggie who's turning it big time, you'd never see Indians doing that to Macgill.

You're saying we should play 4 fast bowlers, 3 of them are identical, all bowling at the same pace, the same length, and aiming to bowl it on or around off stump. How easy would that be for the Indians to play them? Brett Lee's the only aggressive bowler, and he just came back from injury.

You need variations in your attack, and Macgill bowled very very well in the first test and did a good containing job and cleaned up the tail, don't ever underestimate the value of cleaning up the tail, coz Indian's tailenders are better than you think, and a world class wrist spinner like Macgill can make lightwork of them. He didn't bowl all that badly in the second test either, he was bowling on possibly the best batting track in the world and then someone like you shouts for his head. Jesus Christ, thank god you ain't the selector.

Thank god I've got eyes! Your mate was made to look pedestrian.

And what about his wickets? Two were bloody tail enders (any of the fast men could've cleaned up given the same amount of overs MacGill had at them) and the other two were stupid shots. I think Sehweg was thinking easy runs when he was stumped. So don't undermine Katich's wickets. I think he bowled well, particularly to Laxman in the fourth innings - something MacGill failed to do - he didn't trouble anyone.

And yeah spinners tend to bowl more overs than quicks, so I don't want to hear the excuse that Macgill had a huge workload, because that's what he's expected to do.

We need four quicks for Melbourne - horses for courses. Bracken will add variety to the pace and intimidation of Lee, while Bichel and Williams or maybe Kasper should be there to share the load and use the conditions.

In saying all of this Warne would've struggled in Adelaide as well, but as least he's got other strings to his bow.

cr.