Drop Stephen Hill

[believe_it]

How is it unfair?

Why not compare Judd in his third season to Hill?
Or Cooney.
Or Joel Selwood.
Or Peter Matera's second season as a 22 year old.

The list goes on. Compare Hill's stats with those blokes. Compare Hill's impact on games with them. Where do you think he sits?

You weren't comparing him with those players you were comparing him with Ablett who took didn't become major force until his 6th season. If you want to have debate it is more constructive if you don't continually shift the goal posts in an attempt to validate an incorrect comparison

 

[Clay Davis]

You weren't comparing him with those players you were comparing him with Ablett who took didn't become major force until his 6th season. If you want to have debate it is more constructive if you don't continually shift the goal posts in an attempt to validate an incorrect comparison

I'm not shifting the goal posts.

I want Hill to be an A grader.

People excuse his inability to become an A grader based on being around C graders.

Plenty of A grade players manage to star around lesser lights, Ablett being the prime example.

Then people want to make the excuse that at the same age, Ablett wasn't performing.

Well, **** me if you can't find shitloads of A graders of the competition playing top quality footy at the same age Hill is now.

It's really sad that what GG says here is probably true:

Perhaps this is the reason we have never tasted the ultimate success, to allow this type of play and look for excuses when it is plainly evident that Hill has done the wrong thing speaks volumes for the culture of our club and its supporters.

Let's just compare the output of third year Hill with second year Fyfe.

Is Hill even up to scratch against internal, presently playing benchmarks? How does Fyfe thrive despite being around C graders?

 

[Freo88]

Probably worth pointing out that when harvey dropped duffield he wasnt considered an important player- he was in and out of that side and much as JVB is now.

maybe ive over-rated hilly- he can have the best skills in the world but if he cant get the pill, what use is it?

Of course though i have confidence that he'll get his act together eventually

 

[prattsta]

How is it unfair?

Why not compare Judd in his third season to Hill?
Or Cooney.
Or Joel Selwood.
Or Peter Matera's second season as a 22 year old.

It's unfair because a 22 year old Matera would be a year older than Hill!...

The list goes on. Compare Hill's stats with those blokes. Compare Hill's impact on games with them. Where do you think he sits?

You're right, Hill needs to go when it's his turn and have a greater impact on games. Is dropping him the solution though? I'm not convinced.

 

[Clay Davis]

You're right, Hill needs to go when it's his turn and have a greater impact on games. Is dropping him the solution though? I'm not convinced.

Neither am I. But excuses can't be made for him either.

Remember how we joked about him as sub? It's an attractive option at the moment.

 

[Scotland]

FWIW Ablett may have only had 300 disposals in his third season, but he did kick 35 goals and spent a lot of his early career up forward.

Ablett may not have been a 'major force' until his sixth season (he also wasn't a permanent midfielder until then either), but he performed well performed well in his 3rd and was top 3 in the B&F in each of his 4th and 5th.

I watched Hill rip my team apart in what would have been his 5th or 6th game in the AFL. Fast forward two years and I barely noticed he was playing in the same fixture. Maybe he should ring up Daniel Wells and ask whatever he has done differently this year to the previous 8 because you'd hate to see a player as talented as Hill go down the same path Wells followed.

 

[Outshined]

It would definitely be a statement dropping Hill with our current injury list. His softness around the contest has been highlighted this year, especially since he got away with doing it last year due to having Barlow, Morabito, McPhee and Mundy protecting him. I wouldn't be opposed to sending him back to West Perth in a month or so if his current form continues and we start getting back a bit of quality in the midfield.

 

[prattsta]

Remember how we joked about him as sub? It's an attractive option at the moment.

Not such a bad idea, would need to make it pretty clear to him exactly why it's happened though.

"Hey Hilly, check this out"

*Shows game day footage*

"I hope you enjoyed watching that, because this week you're going to get a lot of time to watch the game. From the bench. Zing."

 

[believe_it]

FWIW Ablett may have only had 300 disposals in his third season, but he did kick 35 goals and spent a lot of his early career up forward.
.

Why was that? Surely if he was had the ability and development back then they would have played him in the midfield where he is today?

The point is these stupid ****ing comparisons are pointless as different players have different inherent talents and develop at different rates. Hill may not have shown improvement so far this year from last year but he hasn't gone backwards.

He started out in what looked like career best form then dropped off a degree for some reason one which nobody here knows. I just think these comparisons with elite players are used in a way to indicate that a young player has some sort of character flaw if he has a drop in form .Why two weeks ago he was in our best players kicking 3.2 and laying 6 tackles.

 

[Clay Davis]

Why was that? Surely if he was had the ability and development back then they would have played him in the midfield where he is today?

The point is these stupid ****ing comparisons are pointless as different players have different inherent talents and develop at different rates. Hill may not have shown improvement so far this year from last year but he hasn't gone backwards.

He started out in what looked like career best form then dropped off a degree for some reason one which nobody here knows. I just think these comparisons with elite players are used in a way to indicate that a young player has some sort of character flaw if he has a drop in form .Why two weeks ago he was in our best players kicking 3.2 and laying 6 tackles.

They're not pointless comparisons. We didn't spend a number three draft pick on a guy who has up and down form, struggles to win his own ball, and doesn't impact the contest.

Remember, he is the cornerstone of the rebuild. It was probably the most debated pick for Freo fans since the 99 draft. Everyone knew we needed to secure a great player with that pick in order to rise up the ladder.

In my opinion, we have secured a very good player that could end up great. For him to become that he needs to start doing more. He can't shrink off and have excuses made for him.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Calling to drop Hill is just nonsense. How is he going to show he can commit to a contest at AFL level if he's not playing there?

I don't consider Him to be soft or a squib, but he is definitely a more timid player than others. He's not alone though. I was at the Melbourne game and MJ came down past where I was sitting to take up position. His opposition bumped and harassed him the whole way there and all MJ did was look for somewhere else to be. The fact that no other players stepped in also paints a picture.

What really stands out for me though is that the club has no leadership in this department from its Captain. If you're being honest, you will accept that Pav also takes the easy path far too often. I detest the way he feigns for a free rather than making a genuine attack on the ball. The umpires have always had stars in their eyes over Pav, as much as the media do, and he's mostly been getting away with it, but recently it seems he ends up lying on his face looking silly while the opposition runs away with the ball. I've seen Pav not make contests he should be able to get to with a genuine desire, fail to impose himself in tackles and yes, I have seen him pull out of a marking contest. I'd cut him a bit of slack if he was playing injured, but the coach says he's not.

Does anyone know how far Hill can kick on his right foot? When opposition players carrel him on his left side, he seems confused and not sure what to do. AFL quality players of today need to be able to kick 50m on both feet. I cant ever remember Hill kicking on his right.

You're not very observant then, are you? He kicked goal of the year with his right a few weeks ago.

 

[GordonGecko]

Calling to drop Hill is just nonsense. How is he going to show he can commit to a contest at AFL level if he's not playing there?

So we simply allow him to avoid contests until he hits one properly?

Or do we take the proactive option of telling him his efforts are not up to standard and to address this issue at WAFL level.

If it's good enough for skill errors, it's good enough for courage issues.

 

[dont bowl there]

Hill was never soft for West Perth, in fact that final against the Swans he was de Boer like in his attack at the footy/man. Not sure where it has gone wrong for him but that display (in particular that one effort) against Melbourne was a disgrace. Im not saying he should play like de Boer every week but when there is a contest to be won he MUST put his body on the line for the team, his flapping arm has been a disgrace to watch.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

So we simply allow him to avoid contests until he hits one properly?

Or do we take the proactive option of telling him his efforts are not up to standard and to address this issue at WAFL level.

If it's good enough for skill errors, it's good enough for courage issues.

In the Essendon game I saw him hit some contests pretty hard but you ignore that. You also ignore my comments on Pav. If you're going to set an example lets start by the Captain setting one to follow, on the field, every week.

 

[GordonGecko]

In the Essendon game I saw him hit some contests pretty hard but you ignore that.

That's just it though, it should be every contest. You cant pick and choose when you want to go.

When it is your turn to halve a contest, take the hit and reset.

You also ignore my comments on Pav. If you're going to set an example lets start by the Captain setting one to follow, on the field, every week.

Im ignoring your thoughts on Pavlich because this thread is a discussion about Stephen Hill. Shifting the focus is symptomatic of what is wrong with the club and its supporters.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Im ignoring your thoughts on Pavlich because this thread is a discussion about Stephen Hill. Shifting the focus is symptomatic of what is wrong with the club and its supporters.

You're the one who is shifting focus. You say an example must be set that softness is unacceptable. The Captain is the one who should be setting it. He is, after all, the on-field leader.

 

[muckypup]

Calling to drop Hill is just nonsense. How is he going to show he can commit to a contest at AFL level if he's not playing there? ...


What really stands out for me though is that the club has no leadership in this department from its Captain. If you're being honest, you will accept that Pav also takes the easy path far too often. I detest the way he feigns for a free rather than making a genuine attack on the ball. The umpires have always had stars in their eyes over Pav, as much as the media do, and he's mostly been getting away with it, but recently it seems he ends up lying on his face looking silly while the opposition runs away with the ball. I've seen Pav not make contests he should be able to get to with a genuine desire, fail to impose himself in tackles and yes, I have seen him pull out of a marking contest. I'd cut him a bit of slack if he was playing injured, but the coach says he's not.

I have noticed this ! Yes I have noticed it on quite a few occassions! I even suspected he was putting on that limp at the end of the Melbourne game. If you look at the footage you will see.

Hill, no problem with him except he is, as I haev said previously, a twig and needs to add weight.

 

[GordonGecko]

You're the one who is shifting focus. You say an example must be set that softness is unacceptable. The Captain is the one who should be setting it. He is, after all, the on-field leader.

I havent seen Pavlich shirk a contest, when he does I'll be the first to point it out.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

I havent seen Pavlich shirk a contest, when he does I'll be the first to point it out.

You haven't been watching as closely as you'd have us believe.

 

[GordonGecko]

You haven't been watching as closely as you'd have us believe.

By all means, point to a particular incident.

 

[Taylor]

You want to drop the team's most damaging offensive weapon for not putting his body in a position to be targetted by the opposition who make it an objective pre-game to physically target Hill and Fyfe?

Welcome to the modern game, start paying attention to the cheap bumps Stephen and Nathan cop, interviews with physical enforcers on field such as Suban and you'll see that it's the teams job to get the ball to Hill, to protect him from getting crunched. It's not his job to wear front on contact, don't think for a second that the opposition won't take the chance to rub him out for the rest of the game with a good bump.

THEN I'm sure you'll call him soft, when really if Stephen Hill has to win his own ball we've had a massive failure of inside midfielders.

Jayden Pitt is being groomed to stay off the contest as well, in the same mold because when the ball winners play well, with the Hills of the game there, the team looks like a million dollars. That's his role. If he wasn't playing his role, he'd be dropped. It happened to Roberton, it would have happened to Hill.

 

[GordonGecko]

You want to drop the team's most damaging offensive weapon for not putting his body in a position to be targetted by the opposition who make it an objective pre-game to physically target Hill and Fyfe?

Welcome to the modern game, start paying attention to the cheap bumps Stephen and Nathan cop, interviews with physical enforcers on field such as Suban and you'll see that it's the teams job to get the ball to Hill, to protect him from getting crunched. It's not his job to wear front on contact, don't think for a second that the opposition won't take the chance to rub him out for the rest of the game with a good bump.

THEN I'm sure you'll call him soft, when really if Stephen Hill has to win his own ball we've had a massive failure of inside midfielders.

Jayden Pitt is being groomed to stay off the contest as well, in the same mold because when the ball winners play well, with the Hills of the game there, the team looks like a million dollars. That's his role. If he wasn't playing his role, he'd be dropped. It happened to Roberton, it would have happened to Hill.

What arent you people understanding?

No one is asking Hill to become a clearance specialist, to be the in and under extractor.

All that I ask, and it's a fair ask, is to attack the contest when it is your turn.

The two standout occassions for this year have been one on one situations.

Hill vs another in open space. With Banfield and Mckenzie it was Hill who blinked, Hill who didnt commit his body to the contest, Hill who stuck out an arm. Hill who lost the contest and cost his side a goal. Hill who set the tone for softness on field.

When it is your turn, it is your turn.

 

[Clay Davis]

What really stands out for me though is that the club has no leadership in this department from its Captain. If you're being honest, you will accept that Pav also takes the easy path far too often. I detest the way he feigns for a free rather than making a genuine attack on the ball. The umpires have always had stars in their eyes over Pav, as much as the media do, and he's mostly been getting away with it, but recently it seems he ends up lying on his face looking silly while the opposition runs away with the ball. I've seen Pav not make contests he should be able to get to with a genuine desire, fail to impose himself in tackles and yes, I have seen him pull out of a marking contest. I'd cut him a bit of slack if he was playing injured, but the coach says he's not.

I agree with you wholeheartedly here, but if one was to start a thread that criticised Pavlich in any sense, you'd cop a barrage of hellfire and sulking about trolling. It's hard enough to have a sensible discussion, albeit with a critical tone, about what Hill is required to do to become elite.

There are a lot of milquetoasts on these boards who shy away from vigorous debate.

 

[Sigwald]

His opposition bumped and harassed him the whole way there and all MJ did was look for somewhere else to be. The fact that no other players stepped in also paints a picture.

Have noticed this sort of thing before as well. Quite a few of ours are just too nice & decent on the field (Re: Hill fetching the ball as Sylvia ran off as well).

This is where we really miss McPhee & Suban.

 

[mathew20]

Im sorry, I cannot excuse Stephen Hill any longer.

He should have been dropped after his round one non effort which resulted in a Banfield goal.

He has continually taken the soft road in a number of games.

Back then I championed the idea that it would set an example of what is acceptable and what is not.

Clearly, Hill still believes one handed efforts at the ball when traffic is coming is acceptable. It isnt, it's soft and sets the tone for our attack at the contest.

Again on the weekend when Hill had the option of going in low and hard to meet Mckenzie for a contested ball he blinked and attempted to paddle the ball into space with one hand.

He lost the contest, outright, Mckenzie gain possession and Melbourne goaled from Hill's non effort.

Couldnt care less how good he looks getting a handball receive and dashing into space, we all know he can do that.

What remains to be seen is whether he has the belly to cop a hit and halve a contest.

On the evidence thus far, it would appear not.

A lesson needs to be taught.

I have been telling my mates all year that he has the heart of a pea and after last week they now agree.
Rich was a much better option but we are stuck with a player that will not show up when the big games need a player with courage.
Thats the way i see it but i hope i will be proved wrong .