Dynamic Syndications?

[KardiniaPark]

Hey Guys

Im not sure if any of you own horses or know much about that side of things, but i just wanted to run it past you on here anyway. We are thinking of buying a filly out of Dehere / French Soir. 2yo unraced. To be trained by David Payne. A 2.5% share is $4750 and its $27 a week and everything's included in that including syndication fees.

We arent out to make a million dollars just to have a bit of fun. Does anyone know anything about the breeding etc or any tips for joining a syndicate?.

You can check it out here
http://www.dynamicsyndications.com.au/listings/detail.asp?iNews=445&iType=44

Comments would be appreciated!

 

[go fullta]

dehere is a gun sire, one of my favourites

the dam france soir is a chilean mare, so cant tell you much about it! this filly is the 1st to race from the mare!

some say the 1st foals arent much good, because there usually pretty small!

seems a bit expensive for such a little share, but all the best if you get into it!!

personally, im not a fan of syndications, but hey...its what ever floats ya boat

 

[the_fresh]

Not too sure about the mare, I can't find any race stats for her but it may look like she was a group 1 winner. Now this is her first foal which is something I like in dams, she had 4 wins, but doesn't say how many starts, I hate seeing dams who have a heap of starts ie. Sunline, busted a gut on the track but thrown crap.
I would want to see the horse first in person with someone who knows horses, if you're able to see it first do so, you're outlaying $4k plus up front then $27 a week for what could be 4/5 years.
having said that I always recommend at some stage in your life of buying a horse, its the best fun you can have, I've seen it with friends, when i was working in racing & you always hear stories of a group of people who bought shares in a horse and didn't know one another and now are life long friends.

I forgot to post Dehere's stats

01/08/05 to 31/07/06 282 18 19 36 6.4 25.9 57.7
01/08/06 to 31/07/07 335 51 25 39 15.2 34.3 76.4
01/08/07 to 31/07/08 339 38 41 34 11.2 33.3 46.8
01/08/08 to 22/10/08 106 11 8 17 10.4 34.0 58.4
Total 1454 163 132 157 11.2 31.1 62.5
Last 100 100 11 8 16 11.0 35.0 61.9

Track Condition Stats
Fast 8 3 0 0 37.5 37.5 166.3
Good 923 115 91 105 12.5 33.7 71.0
Dead 329 32 24 33 9.7 27.1 50.3
Slow 106 4 9 11 3.8 22.6 17.0
Heavy 88 9 8 8 10.2 28.4 65.3
Sand 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Total 1454 163 132 157 11.2 31.1 62.5

Prizemoney Stats
$0-$5000 68 13 5 13 19.1 45.6 112.8
$5001-$10000 494 57 49 61 11.5 33.8 58.8
$10001-$20000 325 32 35 31 9.8 30.2 48.2
$20001-$35000 230 34 25 17 14.8 33.0 79.8
$35001-$75000 199 18 15 19 9.0 26.1 65.4
$75000+ 138 9 3 16 6.5 20.3 51.8
Total 1454 163 132 157 11.2 31.1 62.5

Odds Range Stats
Odds on-Evens 41 22 7 7 53.7 87.8 92.7
1.1 - 2.5 153 47 27 25 30.7 64.7 91.2
2.6 - 5.0 311 49 48 38 15.8 43.4 74.9
5.1 - 8.0 246 24 20 36 9.8 32.5 74.6
8.1 - 16.0 332 16 16 34 4.8 19.9 60.2
16.0+ 371 5 14 17 1.3 9.7 31.0
Total 1454 163 132 157 11.2 31.1 62.5

Field size Stats
1-5 36 7 7 9 19.4 63.9 41.1
6-7 126 18 12 21 14.3 40.5 82.2
8-10 524 62 55 60 11.8 33.8 57.4
11-12 368 45 36 40 12.2 32.9 64.8
13-15 338 27 21 24 8.0 21.3 59.9
16+ 62 4 1 3 6.5 12.9 78.7
Total 1454 163 132 157 11.2 31.1 62.5

Horse Class Stats
Less than -10 604 80 56 79 13.2 35.6 60.5
-10 to -5 311 35 31 36 11.3 32.8 71.4
-4.5 to 0 333 29 32 20 8.7 24.3 67.0
0.5 to 5 164 17 13 17 10.4 28.7 48.8
5.5 to 9 38 2 0 5 5.3 18.4 48.7
9.5+ 4 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Total 1454 163 132 157 11.2 31.1 62.5

Distance Range Stats
<=1000 160 28 19 14 17.5 38.1 110.4
1001m-1300m 589 62 53 59 10.5 29.5 54.6
1301m-1500m 330 36 26 37 10.9 30.0 58.4
1501m-2000m 267 25 25 36 9.4 32.2 47.4
2001m-2400m 77 10 8 7 13.0 32.5 100.4
2401m+ 31 2 1 4 6.5 22.6 46.8
Total 1454 163 132 157 11.2 31.1 62.5

Age of Horse Stats
2yo 84 12 3 11 14.3 31.0 122.4
3yo 345 52 40 41 15.1 38.6 57.7
4yo 266 36 32 28 13.5 36.1 61.9
5yo 245 23 22 24 9.4 28.2 68.0
6yo 221 20 17 24 9.0 27.6 45.2
7yo+ 293 20 18 29 6.8 22.9 60.0
Total 1454 163 132 157 11.2 31.1 62.5

Days from Last run Stats
1-6 days 27 1 4 3 3.7 29.6 33.3
7-13 days 447 55 41 53 12.3 33.3 72.4
14 days 174 18 13 15 10.3 26.4 49.4
15-21 days 335 40 28 35 11.9 30.7 68.3
22-41 days 186 17 20 20 9.1 30.6 43.9
42+ days 285 32 26 31 11.2 31.2 63.2
Total 1454 163 132 157 11.2 31.1 62.5

Weight Carried Stats
Less than 51k 20 1 1 2 5.0 20.0 17.5
51-52kg 57 5 8 4 8.8 29.8 97.4
53-54kg 469 29 47 41 6.2 24.9 54.6
55-56kg 455 54 40 53 11.9 32.3 61.9
57-58kg 363 61 33 46 16.8 38.6 73.7
59+kg 90 13 3 11 14.4 30.0 50.0
Total 1454 163 132 157 11.2 31.1 62.5

Barrier Position Stats
1-3 420 45 43 51 10.7 33.1 69.5
4-6 434 54 47 41 12.4 32.7 61.4
7-10 443 46 34 50 10.4 29.3 55.1
11-13 127 14 7 14 11.0 27.6 48.7
14-16 27 3 1 1 11.1 18.5 117.8
17+ 3 1 0 0 33.3 33.3 433.3
Total 1454 163 132 157 11.2 31.1 62.5

 

[Exhale You]

seems a bit expensive for such a little share, but all the best if you get into it!!

The filly sold for $110,000 at the sales, so at the price KP mentioned, it works out to be $190,000.

All syndicators mark up their horses a fair bit, but i've not really had anything to do with expensive horses like this one, so i've no idea of the selling price is exorbitant.

I watched a quick video of the filly walking and she's looked a lovely type, and being out of a Group 1 winner (albeit in Chile), she would be pretty tempting, i imagine.

 

[master bate]

Don't buy it, they will have more money and we will all have to put up with more of their ads and his stupid voice -
'I'm Dean Watt from Dynamic Syndacations'
'Golden Slipper won it' 'Cox plate won it'
'Race the best with the best'
Always makes me change the channel.
It's nearly as bad as Frank Walker from national tiles.

I don't know much about pedigrees or syndications (but I'm confident you get good service and tickets and all those things these days), but I know owning a race horse is good fun.

 

[sethlad]

Havent dealt with a syndicator recently but there are a couple of posters here who have recent experience

Deej who is here infrequently has horses with Prime,Im sure he'd be happy to share his experiences,good & bad.

Its a fairly painless (apart from the $$$) entry point although Dynamic appear to be at the higher end of the market.
They had massive success in a hurry & have traded off that fairly cleverly,as you would.
Not sure what their recent form is like,a bit like Slade I guess.

seth

 

[KardiniaPark]

Thanks guys!

I thought about getting a cheaper one but id like a crack at winning in the city on a saturday and having 2.5% of that excites me a hell of a lot more than 40% of something running around on a tuesday arvo at Port Macquarie. Not that theres anything wrong with Pt Macquarie

 

[Pres]

No way would I go for something like this. $80k mark up on a $110k filly to me is verging on the unethical.

And what's with the $27 a week? Since when did it cost >$55k a year to train and race a thoroughbred?

US Mortgage Brokers have more conscience than some of these syndicators.

 

[Bobby Beecroft]

No way would I go for something like this. $80k mark up on a $110k filly to me is verging on the unethical.

And what's with the $27 a week? Since when did it cost >$55k a year to train and race a thoroughbred?

US Mortgage Brokers have more conscience than some of these syndicators.

Agreed why pay a middle man when there is no need too.
Trainers are always looking to take on new owners, so I'm not sure why the need to pay someone to be the go-between exists.

Trainers are always plugging open days & generally it's just an annual occurrence. Pick a few trainers, look at their websites & ring the stables.
Explain your budget & they will certainly give you an indication as to whether they have something suitable on the horizon.

Perhaps not so much Freedman & Hayes, but there many excellent trainers metropolitan or country that will be looking just for the likes of yourself.

 

[Mordecai]

Good thread.

Any other recommendations on how to come into horse ownership?

What's the best way to go about it?

 

[The Dustbin]

Dynamic are a rip off. Not sure if other syndicators do it and unless it has changed, you pay for Dean Watt and staff's airline tickets, accommodation, fax, phone calls etc etc for and during the sales.



If your looking for just fun, Shelley Hancox has a nice package of 5 horses with 5 different trainers for a one off fee of $950 which will cover everything for 3 years.

http://www.hancox.com.au/hancox_racing.html

 

[Exhale You]

And what's with the $27 a week? Since when did it cost >$55k a year to train and race a thoroughbred?

I just noticed that.

They're effectively suggesting that training with David Payne costs $4320 a month.
Now i've not owned a horse in a few years so i'm a little out of the loop, but back then it was about $2000ish a month with a good, solid city trainer (obviously a bit more for the likes of Freedman and Hayes).

It's certainly something i'd be asking Dynamic about before i handed over my hard earned.

 

[KardiniaPark]

There is a $50 monthly fee that goes to dynamic syndications which i included in that $27 a week.

Its the Wifes money and it seems its a bit much for her right now. We just got a new bathroom and shes paying off the car and the house so probably not the best timing. Its dissapointing but she said definately next year but right now i guess she will just go with a gai waterhouse horse.

Its $999 all year to cover all costs but thats just to race it you dont actually own it. So your share of the prizemoney is only 1% but its a little interest anyway. The name of it escapes me at the moment. Ill post it when i find the name. It will race in sydney so we can watch it and it won its second start at kembla grange by 5 lengths so it obviously shows some promise.

Its probably safer than jumping straight into a high dollar syndication like the dehere filly. But if it comes out and wins its first start by 12 ill be definately crying like a baby. But yeah as mentioned it is a large markup on its original price but thats racing i guess!.

I think the gai horse is called nectareign?. If not its something very similar to that.

 

[KardiniaPark]

I just goodgled nectarine and its trained in perth so i have no idea what the mrs is on about. It did however win its last start by 5 1/2 lengths so at least she got that bit right!

 

[Pres]

Good thread.

Any other recommendations on how to come into horse ownership?

What's the best way to go about it?

Harro just read Bobby Beecroft's post - sums it up perfectly. Just pick a trainer you like - outside the top flight - head to an open day, explain your budget and go from there.

Most of these trainers set up syndicates to race horses just like the syndicators (without anything like the same mark up).

 

[discoduck]

alot of trainers are up around the $4000 per month now when racing. training fees, vets, floats, gallop charges, trials, noms, acceptances, a bandaid - you get charged for every little thing they do to your horse. and then when they win a race, when effectively they've done their job, alot of them take another % of prizemoney as a bonus (on top of what is taken out of stakes by Racing Vic for the trainer).

i love the industry and love owning racehorses, but the owner is definitely worse off than any other player in the game - unless you own the big race winners.

 

[Exhale You]

alot of trainers are up around the $4000 per month now when racing.

Really? Wow.

I loved owning shares in a couple of horses, but at $4k a month, it's now well and truly out of my reach.

 

[discoduck]

Really? Wow.

I loved owning shares in a couple of horses, but at $4k a month, it's now well and truly out of my reach.

yep - in the city anyway. $90 per day plus GST covers the $3000 mark, with incidentals usually getting up the total up around $4000.

that's why those young fellas down at warrnambool are becoming very popular. they remain about $60 per day, have the beach and much more affordable.

 

[KardiniaPark]

Just an update!

I spoke to Matt from Dynamic and told him it was a bit outside the price range so he offered another filly out of AL MAHER / FRANGIPANI. Same deal as the other filly but its only $2937 for 2.5%. Plus the trainers fees etc. Works out a lot less upfront so hopefully i can convince the missus to get into it. Shes a really nice looking girl and its 60% sold so we better get moving quick!.

We will discuss it over the weekend and hopefully she has a crack at her cos the breeding seems really good , danehill x snippets lines so thats good enough for me but its not my $$$$ so ill see how it goes!

WISH ME LUCK!!!!!!

 

[Pres]

Really? Wow.

I loved owning shares in a couple of horses, but at $4k a month, it's now well and truly out of my reach.

The price quoted I understand relates to $90 per day when the horse is in full work. Very minor amounts only when spelling (which is a significant portion of the year).

You should be able to train and race a horse for circa $30k per year all up.

 

[Lockyer24]

I reckon anything out of Danehill is worth a crack at - although I'd prefer one with the first letter E

Side question related to DS - anyone know where Tennants Tiara is at this spring?

 

[KardiniaPark]

The price quoted I understand relates to $90 per day when the horse is in full work. Very minor amounts only when spelling (which is a significant portion of the year).

You should be able to train and race a horse for circa $30k per year all up.

For sure pres.

From what i understand its $24-29k max per year. Obviously when you only have a small share like me its only $13-17 a week max which is very very cheap and the initial outlay is the main problem for most not the upkeep.

I also understand that it doesnt cover big race noms? Lets say the horse we get is awesome wins its first three starts by 8 lengths, 6 lengths & 14 lengths. Hey im a dreamer! Im pretty sure races like the slipper, magic millions etc isnt included ?.

So therefore the problem is that youd have to pay entry fees out of your own pocket because they take the prizemoney won and it cant be touched for a year. After that year they cut you a cheque> Can that money be used for large $ amounts like slipper nominations?.

...heres me worried about paying up for the slipper lmao!!!!!!!!!!!.

But its a valid question surely if we get a good one is it not?. If we cant touch it for 12 months can dynamic syndications touch it and use it for noms?. I think this is the only worry i have, i have NO IDEA how much noms would be but im guessing it would be a nice penny considering the prizemoney on offer. But hey if she'd won her first three by a combined 28 lenths like i said then they'd be payin me to race her hahahahaha.

Thanks guys , any input would be helpful

 

[sethlad]

So therefore the problem is that youd have to pay entry fees out of your own pocket because
they take the prizemoney won and it cant be touched for a year. After that year they cut you a cheque>

Youre kidding?
They expect you to pay but not get anything it earns for a year?
Thats gotta be wrong......end of prep maybe but not a year.

seth

 

[KardiniaPark]

Youre kidding?
They expect you to pay but not get anything it earns for a year?
Thats gotta be wrong......end of prep maybe but not a year.

seth

Yeah seth im pretty sure thats the deal. I guess they have so many syndications going that its easier that way?. But hey when i win the slipper i wont mind waiting a few months for my share of a few million!.

But yeah i was a bit taken aback when he told me that as well, its the only way we can get into the game and get a decent horse though ya know?. And its not all about the money. We dont mind outlaying the $ as long as we have some fun and if at the end of the year they can give us a cheque all the better. Really we are just dipping our toes in before we take a big leap if ya know what i mean.

 

[Mordecai]

Harro just read Bobby Beecroft's post - sums it up perfectly. Just pick a trainer you like - outside the top flight - head to an open day, explain your budget and go from there.

Most of these trainers set up syndicates to race horses just like the syndicators (without anything like the same mark up).

Many thanks to you and Bobby Beecroft. Now is probably not the right time for myself but it is defenitely something that interests me - I will use the above method when the time is right.

What are some of the good horses that have just come out of nowhere for minimal spend? What are the chances for prize money type success? (I know that's largely not what it is about but I'm still interested)

I recall Mandela had a story about it being a relatively cheap horse.