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England going forward

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ADL9798 said:
Just watched Hodgson's press conference (the 2nd one where he actually answered questions). No surprises, suffice to say his incompetence is matched only by his arrogance.

"I don't really know what I'm doing here. I thought my statement last night was sufficient."

How about the fact that you've been paid £14m over 4 years and you've presided over 2 of England's worst ever performances at major tournaments, taken the national team backwards, and that maybe for once in your career you might like to take responsibility for your failings. Obviously he isn't obliged to do anything, but I think we've all had enough of listening to him repeat those often used lines/lies about his magnificent achievements and his position as a much respected elder statesman of the game on par with Alex Ferguson. It was good to see him show accountability for a change albeit reluctantly and it seems only after being coerced.

I can handle incompetence, there are many incompetent managers out there. My issue with Hodgson lies with his arrogance - he has never shown any willingness to accept constructive criticism and learn/adapt his methods, and that is why we are seeing witnessing exactly the same failings of this England side as we saw of the Liverpool side he managed 6 years ago.

Forget England, the game in general will be better off without him.

As for England and their chances of success going forward, the type of manager they pick to replace Hodgson is by far the single most important factor.

Look at the strengths of this group of players, look at the way they play at club level - aggressive pressing, fast transition, quick, direct passing into feet.

Forget looking for a manager with decades of experience, it's irrelevant if their experience is in a style that is no longer effective and/or does not match these strengths. Look for a coach who understands these strengths and can develop a system to allow these players replicate them at international level. There are many coaches out there who fit this criteria, some are currently managing in the UK, many of them are abroad. Fortunately in the form of one of the most highly paid jobs in the game the FA have a significant carrot on their line to tempt any would be suitors.
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I got the feeling he resigned just to avoid having to answer questions about the game! His contract was up anyway so it made no real difference.
 
Posted this in another thread a year ago. Pretty well reflects my thoughts on the search for the next England manager. I'd imagine I would've probably said something similar after the 2014 World Cup and the 2012 Euros.

ADL9798 said:
Roy Hodgson is just a square peg in a round hole for me and this disconnect will continue to hamstring the English national team and confuse the players until they instate a coach whose philosophy actually matches the FA's mission statement

What had Joachim Löw won before they put him in charge of the German national team? Nothing of consequence really, but that inexperience clearly didn't matter to the German FA nearly as much as the fact that he was an intelligent manager whose philosophy aligned with their plan and the vision they had for German football going forward.

This idea that you need to have 30 years in the game and a 5 page list of honours to be a successful England manager has been debunked pretty comprehensively over the last 15 years. Why not try the German approach and go for a round peg for a change when they pull the plug on Hodgson.
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This England squad has a lot of good young talent, it's not a "worst world cup in 50 years" or "beaten by Iceland" bad, they need managers who aren't dinosaurs to develop them into something good

Obviously the English FA itself is clueless but a lot of that cluelessness could be masked if there's a good manager with a plan in charge, which has to come abroad, and for the English tabloid to tolerate someone who isn't English being in charge of the team
 

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Doctor Gero said:
That hour long radio piece that Kizza put up yesterday had a decent point. Point was made by Chris Waddle, you look at where these players have come from... All top clubs in England, who have big budgets and buy good players so these players would be good right?

The point he made was that some of these players are merely pieces of the puzzle, not the key pieces of the puzzle. yes Cahill plays for Chelsea but it's Fabregas, Hazard, Costa etc that makes the team tick. Coutinho, Eriksen, De Bruyne, Dembele, Sanchez, Ozil etc etc. So how can you expect these players to excel on the world stage when for the most part they're not the drivers of success at club level. Important pieces for their club puzzles no doubt but not the key piece.
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Kane and Alli are vital players for Spurs and made the PFA team of the year
Sturridge is Liverpool's best player
Henderson is Liverpool captain
Rooney is Man United captain
Hart is a leader at City
Vardy scored 20+ goals in a league winning side

I don't think "the players aren't good enough" route is the right one to be going down which is what it sounds like Waddle was alluding to in a roundabout way. Not good enough to what? Beat Iceland? A lot of players in that England squad play significant roles for their club sides and are very good, technically skilled players.
 
Sozabarus said:
Kane and Alli are vital players for Spurs and made the PFA team of the year
Sturridge is Liverpool's best player
Henderson is Liverpool captain
Rooney is Man United captain
Hart is a leader at City
Vardy scored 20+ goals in a league winning side

I don't think "the players aren't good enough" route is the right one to be going down which is what it sounds like Waddle was alluding to in a roundabout way. Not good enough to what? Beat Iceland? A lot of players in that England squad play significant roles for their club sides and are very good, technically skilled players.
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I think the point Waddle was making was that the players who dictate the play at most PL clubs are not the English ones, ie: Silva/KDB, Ozil/Cazorla, Eriksen, Coutinho, Fabregas etc. Put a quality playmaker in the England side and I think it makes a massive difference, problem is there isn't one.
 
Sozabarus said:
Kane and Alli are vital players for Spurs and made the PFA team of the year
Sturridge is Liverpool's best player
Henderson is Liverpool captain
Rooney is Man United captain
Hart is a leader at City
Vardy scored 20+ goals in a league winning side

I don't think "the players aren't good enough" route is the right one to be going down which is what it sounds like Waddle was alluding to in a roundabout way. Not good enough to what? Beat Iceland? A lot of players in that England squad play significant roles for their club sides and are very good, technically skilled players.
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Difference between being good players and key players.

Kane and Alli got on the end of all the hard grunt work done by Dembele, Alderweireld, Dier. They were the grunt of the team... We won games without Kane and Alli but struggled when those "drivers" were out of the side.
Rooney is past it now. No shame in that.
Henderson as captain... come on now.. Get serious.


The point he was making was that the England players who invariably came from the better clubs consisted of good players but not the players that make their side tick. The only one would be Dier. Rooney makes Utd tick nowadays? If Henderson is that guy for Liverpool you have deep problems. Alli isn't that guy... yet. Wheelchair Jack certainly isn't. Sterling isn't. Lallana isn't.

So how many apart from Dier and Hart play a crucial, I mean absolutely critical role in their side winning? and that's the City Hart not the England Hart.
 
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elhadjihenry said:
I think the point Waddle was making was that the players who dictate the play at most PL clubs are not the English ones, ie: Silva/KDB, Ozil/Cazorla, Eriksen, Coutinho, Fabregas etc. Put a quality playmaker in the England side and I think it makes a massive difference, problem is there isn't one.
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He's not there yet and he's had his confidence knocked about a bit this season, but Sterling could definitely grow into that mould.
 
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Sozabarus said:
Kane and Alli are vital players for Spurs and made the PFA team of the year
Sturridge is Liverpool's best player
Henderson is Liverpool captain
Rooney is Man United captain
Hart is a leader at City
Vardy scored 20+ goals in a league winning side

I don't think "the players aren't good enough" route is the right one to be going down which is what it sounds like Waddle was alluding to in a roundabout way. Not good enough to what? Beat Iceland? A lot of players in that England squad play significant roles for their club sides and are very good, technically skilled players.
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This is the polar opposite of what the BeIn Sport commentary team said in the post match wrap up, which was hard to watch btw. The anger.
 
ADL9798 said:
He's not there yet and he's had his confidence knocked about a bit this season, but Sterling could definitely grow into that mould.
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Probably the most likely to grow into it at this stage and has two pretty good mentors at City to help him get there. Wilshere has the potential but doesn't seem like he will ever live up to it or stay fit enough to be a fixture in the NT. Wenger also sees the Ox as someone who will end up being a central mid, but not sure he has the finesse to be a #10.
 
Wilshere is much better suited to the role, he has way better skills on the ball than Sterling but, like others have said, he can hardly stay on the park, which is a shame as I like watching him play.
 

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Abba Lonie said:
Reckon moving to City has hindered his development a bit? He was electrifying at times during Brazil 2014.
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Big move, big fee, new set of team mates. It's a lot of pressure for a young kid and while I don't think he's been as bad as people have said this season he hasn't progressed as I thought he would. No doubt that Pep will be able to get the best out of him though.
 
I take the point about England not having someone who is "the key player" for their club side but I don't know what this has to do with not being able to beat Iceland? Not only being unable to beat them, but being outplayed by them.

England have gone from overrating their squad, to underrating it. England probably did need to lower their expectations a bit but they've been lowered to a pathetic level that I don't think is right or fair on the players.

What it's also not doing is getting to the root of the problem. Hodgson going is obviously a good thing, but the people who employed him and then stuck by him are still there and will be making the decisions on who the next manager is and that is not a good thing.
 
Guys like Wilshere, Sterling and Lallana are much better players than most players who dictate games for the mid tier international sides. Guys like Gylfi.

The difference is Gylfi gets week to week exposure to being the top guy while the others have Ozil, Silva and Coutinho etc. taking that mantle on. I do get what Waddle meant now.

Imagine if someone like Wilshere was fit. He'd still be bit part at Arsenal compared to Ozil. But if he was at Everton or west ham he'd be carving it up! I'd say he'd match even Payet tbh and I hate the shit.

Sterling moved to city where even if playing well isn't in their top 3 attacking options. For the here and now that's not good for him or England. If he can learn from them and develop his game sure it'll be best for everyone. But can't help but think sterling at Liverpool being close to top dog with Coutinho goes on to have a much better Euro 2016
 
NFGKizza said:
ogden reckons england should appoint klinsmann

******* hell...

he bloody well basically opens up with 'even though america lost 4-0'. ******* great start mark.
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He wouldn't be the worst person to get into the system, whether that's as coach or in another capacity. He did play a key role in turning around German football after '98 and most would agree England and the FA need to have changes made.
 

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Doctor Gero said:
He wouldn't be the worst person to get into the system, whether that's as coach or in another capacity. He did play a key role in turning around German football after '98 and most would agree England and the FA need to have changes made.
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NFGKizza you've read Das Reboot. Is this true? I am sceptical.
 
Wow, one of your own (and one of your "legends") agrees with me. Funny that.

"But don't you think for one minute that there is more pressure on the England team than there is on the Spanish team, the German team, the Italian team. The expectancy in those countries is higher than it is in our country. We tend to be quite realistic because we're quite used to failure."
"Look at the game before [Italy's 2-0 win over Spain] - Italy went out there and they had a real game plan.
"You could see the coach on the sidelines orchestrating everything, they played a pressing game for a while, then they sat for a while.

"You could see that every single player on that pitch knew exactly what his job was at any given time and the positions they should be in. the organisation and the game plan was obvious and it worked."

"We didn't really have the players to change the system. We haven't got any wingers - we've only got Raheem Sterling, who is bang out of form and confidence."
"We've always been a bit tactically behind and it's unquestionable that we've always been technically behind. There will always be exceptions to the rule - and we are teaching our young players better now - but it's only really in the academies where we get any decent coaching.

"We are getting technical footballers. If you look at our under-21s, under-19s and under-17s, they play the same kind of football that we see the Spanish players, Italian players playing, keeping the ball on the floor.

"Gradually that influx of young talent will come through in our first team. Hopefully they will improve our performances over time because we can compete technically."
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http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/36658398
 

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