England going forward

[Cruyff14]

I don't think Runnin Blue has quite grasped the fact that very few of us do support England, and even fewer are making any attempt to claim they are good.

I'm sure he'll get it one day.

I can maybe think of three English supporters on here. The rest either don't care or laugh at their failures.

His behaviour is baffling to say the least.

 

[moomba]

Bojan, WR and me were apparently part of a pom fest yesterday.

 

[Latro]

F365 has a summary of the hatchet job the Daily Mail has done on the English players.

My two favourite are:

On Kyle Walker:
– ‘Has endorsed the violent computer game Call Of Duty.’

On Jack Wilshere:
– ‘Fans said he was drunk during an Arsenal victory parade last year.’

Article is here.

 

[Cruyff14]

Bojan, WR and me were apparently part of a pom fest yesterday.

You're virtually English now anyway, been there long enough

 

[Runnin Blue]

I don't think Runnin Blue has quite grasped the fact that very few of us do support England, and even fewer are making any attempt to claim they are good.

I'm sure he'll get it one day.

You aren't kidding anyone

Was an English-fest until I graced your pages here in the "association football" lonely hearts club.

A different opinion is good, even to "yes" men.

 

[Runnin Blue]

I can maybe think of three English supporters on here. The rest either don't care or laugh at their failures.

His behaviour is baffling to say the least.

You must be pretty slow coz I've been here for a week and already spotted more than 3 England supporters.

 

[moomba]

You're virtually English now anyway, been there long enough

I'm getting an Irish passport before Brexit

 

[WealstoneRaider]

Looks like we've got a crusader on our hands

RB, this board is populated in the main by followers of the Premier League, and seeing as 99% of the posters are Aussies, it's safe to say they do not have much love for the English national team. However, they watch English players week in week out, so are well qualified to pass judgement.

Most are also able to engage in discussions without the petty, juvenile doctrine that you served up upon arrival. So straight from the off you've put yourself at a disadvantage. I've noticed that you are now trying to move away from that stance, but you seem to still be at odds with posters despite saying pretty much the same thing that has always been said - that English players are not good enough. Should they be losing to Iceland though and doing far better than they are? I remember Greece winning the Euro's with a bunch of players that were average at best. It shows you don't always need world class players to succeed, just a team that has a plan and knows how to execute it. Why can't England achieve that at the very least? These are some of the questions we are looking at

 

[Runnin Blue]

Looks like we've got a crusader on our hands

RB, this board is populated in the main by followers of the Premier League, and seeing as 99% of the posters are Aussies, it's safe to say they do not have much love for the English national team. However, they watch English players week in week out, so are well qualified to pass judgement.

Most are also able to engage in discussions without the petty, juvenile doctrine that you served up upon arrival. So straight from the off you've put yourself at a disadvantage. I've noticed that you are now trying to move away from that stance, but you seem to still be at odds with posters despite saying pretty much the same thing that has always been said - that English players are not good enough. Should they be losing to Iceland though and doing far better than they are? I remember Greece winning the Euro's with a bunch of players that were average at best. It shows you don't always need world class players to succeed, just a team that has a plan and knows how to execute it. Why can't England achieve that at the very least? These are some of the questions we are looking at

I notice you only showed your face again after I called you out. Expected.

You talk like you are telling me something I don't know. This board is full of Aussies. This board is full of Premier League supporters. No sugar Sherlock. If you don't like my attitude then blame yourself as it was your attitude that perked my interest and made me stick around.

So get used to it

Still waiting for somebody to disprove the fact that English players are traditionally less skillfully gifted as other players around the world and this is a major reason for their failure as a team at international level. This is what the thread's about yeah, hey bruv?

You could try discussing that instead of "wah wah, he called us shite, wah wah, where's my mummy".

 

[moomba]

Still waiting for somebody to disprove the fact that English players are traditionally less skillfully gifted as other players around the world and this is a major reason for their failure as a team at international level.

No-one has claimed England is the most skilful or technically proficient country in world football (or near to it). In fact most on here over the past half a decade have consistently gone on about the low quality of the players representing England. You seem to be desperate to argue a point against yourself on this because no-one has taken a differing view.

However things have been done to address this, the academy setups have changed to a huge extent. More time and resources have been able to be be spent training young talented footballers in England than ever before. As someone that has watched academy football over here for over a decade I can tell you right now that the quality of footballer coming through is head and shoulders above what it used to be. But you can't expect these things to happen overnight.

 

[Runnin Blue]

No-one has claimed England is the most skilful or technically proficient country in world football (or near to it). In fact most on here over the past half a decade have consistently gone on about the low quality of the players representing England. You seem to be desperate to argue a point against yourself on this because no-one has taken a differing view.

However things have been done to address this, the academy setups have changed to a huge extent. More time and resources have been able to be be spent training young talented footballers in England than ever before. As someone that has watched academy football over here for over a decade I can tell you right now that the quality of footballer coming through is head and shoulders above what it used to be. But you can't expect these things to happen overnight.

You guys seem hell bent on impressing me by how long you've been in the circle-jerk on here together. Hint: I don't care.

But seriously, ok, let's defuse for a bit. Honest question, what academies are you talking about and how long have they been around? Haven't they been around for a long time? Wasn't David Beckham a product of these academies? Or is this a newer, non-club specific initiative that I am unaware of? Genuinely interested. I am not a troll despite what some think.

EDIT: and yeah nobody has specifically stated that England is the most skillful or technically gifted country in world football, but they are very quick to insult me and tell me to gtfo for suggesting they are not. Hence why I stress the point.

 

[WealstoneRaider]

I notice you only showed your face again after I called you out. Expected.

You talk like you are telling me something I don't know. This board is full of Aussies. This board is full of Premier League supporters. No sugar Sherlock. If you don't like my attitude then blame yourself as it was your attitude that perked my interest and made me stick around.

So get used to it

Still waiting for somebody to disprove the fact that English players are traditionally less skillfully gifted as other players around the world and this is a major reason for their failure as a team at international level. This is what the thread's about yeah, hey bruv?

You could try discussing that instead of "wah wah, he called us shite, wah wah, where's my mummy".

If you just settle down a tad I'll be happy to put you straight on a few things, but you seem too intent on antagonising.

It's clear you don't watch the PL or have much of a grasp on English football past or present. Show some respect first and you'll get some back. I'm not going to waste my time in a troll though, so it's up to you...

 

[Runnin Blue]

If you just settle down a tad I'll be happy to put you straight on a few things, but you seem too intent on antagonising.

It's clear you don't watch the PL or have much of a grasp on English football past or present. Show some respect first and you'll get some back. I'm not going to waste my time in a troll though, so it's up to you...

I've lost count of how many times you've said something along the lines of "I'll set you straight but..."

Yeah buddy, I'll keep waiting for your evidence.

It's clear is it? Love the Premier League. Almost watched every single game 2 seasons ago, didn't watch quite so much last season. Gunners fan and proud.

Let me pre-empt you:

- hur hur Gunners, figures
- you've watched that much PM and know nothing hur hur

You know exactly what you can do with your respect bruv, after all, I am following your lead.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

 

[moomba]

You guys seem hell bent on impressing me by how long you've been in the circle-jerk on here together. Hint: I don't care.

Good for you.

But seriously, ok, let's defuse for a bit. Honest question, what academies are you talking about and how long have they been around? Haven't they been around for a long time? Wasn't David Beckham a product of these academies? Or is this a newer, non-club specific initiative that I am unaware of? Genuinely interested. I am not a troll despite what some think.

Beckham came through in pre academy days. Academies were set up around twenty years ago, but clubs were heavily restricted on how much coaching hours they could provide, and where they could recruit from. It lagged behind other countries in Europe.

A few years back the EPPP plan came into being. It allowed clubs to provide more coaching to their kids, and it also forced clubs that wanted category 1 status (and be able to recruit from all over the country) to have a minimum standard in terms of facilities, number of qualified coaches, amount of coaching time provided and other things like education etc.

Before EPPP clubs were obliged to provide a minimum of 3760 hours of coaching from 9 years old to 21 years old. That compared to Holland (5940), France (5740), Spain (4880). Under EPPP category 1 clubs can now spend up to 8,500 coaching hours as they progress from 9 years to 21. This coaching is now done with more coaches, all qualified and better facilities. If clubs don't maintain that they will lose their category 1 status. Funds have also been provided to lower league clubs for their academy setups although you will find plenty of arguments from some of them that they are actually worse off as a result.

Anyway, under EPPP a 9 year old who will be the first proper beneficiary of the setup will currently be playing U12/13/14's. Doesn't happen overnight, and it's why people need to have a bit of patience waiting for the plan to work.

EDIT: and yeah nobody has specifically stated that England is the most skillful or technically gifted country in world football, but they are very quick to insult me and tell me to gtfo for suggesting they are not. Hence why I stress the point.

Well, if you slag off other posters you shouldn't be surprised when a few have a go back at you. Particularly when you are calling them out for having an opinion that they don't have, have never expressed and aren't likely to.

 

[Runnin Blue]

Good for you.



Beckham came through in pre academy days. Academies were set up around twenty years ago, but clubs were heavily restricted on how much coaching hours they could provide, and where they could recruit from. It lagged behind other countries in Europe.

A few years back the EPPP plan came into being. It allowed clubs to provide more coaching to their kids, and it also forced clubs that wanted category 1 status (and be able to recruit from all over the country) to have a minimum standard in terms of facilities, number of qualified coaches, amount of coaching time provided and other things like education etc.

Before EPPP clubs were obliged to provide a minimum of 3760 hours of coaching from 9 years old to 21 years old. That compared to Holland (5940), France (5740), Spain (4880). Under EPPP category 1 clubs can now spend up to 8,500 coaching hours as they progress from 9 years to 21. This coaching is now done with more coaches, all qualified and better facilities. If clubs don't maintain that they will lose their category 1 status. Funds have also been provided to lower league clubs for their academy setups although you will find plenty of arguments from some of them that they are actually worse off as a result.

Anyway, under EPPP a 9 year old who will be the first proper beneficiary of the setup will currently be playing U12/13/14's. Doesn't happen overnight, and it's why people need to have a bit of patience waiting for the plan to work.



Well, if you slag off other posters you shouldn't be surprised when a few have a go back at you. Particularly when you are calling them out for having an opinion that they don't have, have never expressed and aren't likely to.

Nah mate, the slagging off started at me, not the other way around. Don't invent things to suit your agenda and don't get prissy if you boys don't like it coming back at you.

Ok. Around twenty years ago? So, should we not be seeing the products of these academies by now? Could you point me to a few please?

On that subject, what did you think of the BeIn Sports crew saying that these players enter these academies as kids and come out the other end with a sense of entitlement, thinking they are greater players than they are and having the individualness and flair coached out of them until they are basically proficient at everything but special at nothing?

 

[moomba]

Just on that 9 year old. Coming into this season they would have had the following coaching to date:

Old academy system - 560 hours
Holland - up to 1020 hours
France - up to 940 hours
Spain - up to 840 hours

Bit of guesswork here with the ages but under the new EPPP setup they will have received 1200 hours of coaching, probably more than that.

 

[Runnin Blue]

Just on that 9 year old. Coming into this season they would have had the following coaching to date:

Old academy system - 560 hours
Holland - up to 1020 hours
France - up to 940 hours
Spain - up to 840 hours

Bit of guesswork here with the ages but under the new EPPP setup they will have received 1200 hours of coaching, probably more than that.

So your saying this system will produce world class players some time in the future maybe 8-10 years from now?

How did Belgium do it so quickly? Iceland? Spain?

 

[moomba]

Nah mate, the slagging off started at me, not the other way around. Don't invent things to suit your agenda and don't get prissy if you boys don't like it coming back at you.

Whatever. To be honest I couldn't give a toss what you say, but you're quick to hand out the insults and equally quick to have a cry when anyone says anything back to you.

Ok. Around twenty years ago? So, should we not be seeing the products of these academies by now? Could you point me to a few please?

As I said if you'd bothered to read there has recently been a significant change to the academy system. EPPP started in 2012/13, and the first kids to go through the whole system under that setup will be 12/13 years old.

On that subject, what did you think of the BeIn Sports crew saying that these players enter these academies as kids and come out the other end with a sense of entitlement, thinking they are greater players than they are and having the individualness and flair coached out of them until they are basically proficient at everything but special at nothing?

I suspect there is an element of truth to it. Watching the game the other night I could only see Sturridge and Wilshere that looked to me like they were playing a natural game rather than a programmed approach. I think Sterling has a natural side to his game, Walker in defence and Lallana. That's about it. I'm not sure it's an academy thing, I recall Rooney coming out of Everton's academy looking like one of the most natural footballers ever, but even he looks a bit programmed now.

I watched a lot of Man City's U16 and U18 games not that long ago and you could see it in a lot of the kids. They did what they were expected to do in a certain circumstance, in terms of where they ran, where they passed, even how they signalled for the ball. It was very robotic. Effective but not natural. Plenty of senior players like that, I reckon Henderson is one that stands out to me as doing the programmed thing time and time again. It's not a bad thing, but I think a lot of the natural game has been drummed out of English footballers.

I don't see it so much at our academy now, and others like Chelsea. Even England at under age levels are looking a lot more natural than they used to. It's a long process, but I think a more natural fluent game is being encouraged at academy levels.

 

[moomba]

So your saying this system will produce world class players some time in the future maybe 8-10 years from now?

How did Belgium do it so quickly? Iceland? Spain?

Answer is they haven't done it quickly. Belgium and Spain are years ahead of England in terms of getting an effective academy system. Iceland won a knockout game, and good for them.

 

[Runnin Blue]

Answer is they haven't done it quickly. Belgium and Spain are years ahead of England in terms of getting an effective academy system. Iceland won a knockout game, and good for them.

Belgium did do it quickly, they started producing world class players from their systems extremely quickly. Went from no system to exemplary in 10-15 years. You would think the English should have a head start on that, since their academy system is already 20 odd years in.

According to BeIn, Iceland have set up systems ridiculously quickly and been showing results since 2011. With a population of 300,000 or thereabouts.

Spain, I can't be arsed looking up when they began their revolution tbh.

 

[moomba]

Seeing as you don't seem to be listening or reading I'll bow out now.

 

[Runnin Blue]

Seeing as you don't seem to be listening or reading I'll bow out now.

Righto mate. You fellas seem to do that when you can't force someone to agree with you. Listening to what exactly? You try to make excuses for the English soccer system? Tell you what, we'll all come back in 20 years and see the fruits of this labour you are on about.

Cheerio.

 

[WealstoneRaider]

So clarify your position on why you think the English team is failing? I get that you think our players aren't good enough, but as Moomba has explained to you money is being invested with some of the best and most expensive training camps set up anywhere in the world. It's not easy to understand or explain it, so I think when you see opinions like yours saying "you're just shit hahaha" it's not really bringing anything new to the table

 

[Runnin Blue]

Are you talking to me?

I have stated many times why I think they are failing and you have read my opinions, you even said my opinions are shyte and I don't know what I am talking about. I'll be nice and repeat myself even though you continue to avoid answering my own questions.

I'll give you a quick summary: they are technically below par (in skills) compared to the top teams. They overrate themselves. Their fans overrate them. The English seem to equate speed (Raheem Sterling) with skill (Eden Hazard). Also scoring spectacular goals from having cracks from outside the box does not a technically skilled player make. I have watched 30 years of lauded English players who can run fast but not beat a technically proficient defender one on one. English footballers seem to have one or two tricks in their kit bag but not much else, their favourite being the step over. Of course there are always the odd ones out that surprise you, but they are the odd ones out.

You cannot honestly think that your average English player is technically on par with an average Italian, Spanish, Brazilian player. This is why English players have traditionally struggled when trying to play in a highly technical league like Serie A.

English need to take the blinkers off, address skills, learn some humility (BeIn presenters seem to agree with all this, some of them are English btw), don't overrate a bog average player. And right now, get a foreign coach ffs. It'll take a little time, but good things do.

New academies will not fix the English mentality, which is borne of arrogance. Sounds harsh but look at the absolute shocked and angry reaction from the English hosts on the broadcast. I tell you what, I was not shocked at all that Iceland beat England. At all.

There's plenty more but it's 12.30 and cbf.

So I gave you a courtesy, want to give me one and answer my questions for once? Why are my opinions "shyte" mate?