F1

[Smokin]

Originally posted by Satay Mat
call it what you like....

so long as you do not then hold up the F1 Champion as a great driver.

The best driver could have come last.

Why don't they give a trophy to the best mechanical engineer ???

Each to their own I suppose

But the constructor is given as much praise as the driver.

The best driver can come last - absolutely no doubt.

But its not about the best driver, its about the best team.

Schu winning the driver championship is as much a win for Ferrari as it is a win for him.

 

[milo]

It's s money thing. Ferrari has the most.

It's obviously not an achievement for Schu if it's handed to him on a platter.

 

[red+black]

(bump)

to those of you sprouting who does and does not understand the "sport" called Formula One, just have a look at Yahoo and the quoted headlines from around the world, and YES, including Italy.

The death of Formula One

Ferrari blasted worldwide

Ferrari slammed for "Formula Farce"

Italy turns on Ferrari

Ferrari ruin everything

Guess a lot of people don't understand the "sport".

There should not be a drivers championship, just a constructors championship if this is condoned and goes unpunished. Or "teams" should have one driver and one driver only. What if this happened in every race for a season? Oh well done Michael, you really are the world's best formula one driver, you must be so proud. Teams may well have a #1 and a #2 driver, and they may well have their rules, but the governing body is in charge of the sport and should strip points off for this kind of crap. It damages the sport by bringing it into disrepute. What's the point of staying up to watch a contrived race?

 

[Winston Wolf]

Is anybody holding a gun to your heads ? forcing you to watch F1 ?

Obviously the biggest whingers in here either : -
(a) don't like F1 or
(b) don't watch F1 or
(c) don't understand motor sports or
(d) hate Ferrari or
(e) are jealous of Ferrari's and Schuey's success or
(f) all of the above

SO......GET A LIFE !!!

And I would be highly suprised if you actually like any form of motor sport !!!

 

[Boofhead]

You guys who are knocking F1, then don't watch it. I don't like horse racing.

Solution: I don't watch it. So don't bitch about it.

And those who say that Michael Schumacher is nothing special. You truly are idiots. He strived for Jordan, Belted them for Benneton, and now he is the best driver in a FERRARI. Pure Ignorance.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Winston Wolf
Is anybody holding a gun to your heads ? forcing you to watch F1 ?

Obviously the biggest whingers in here either : -
(a) don't like F1 or
(b) don't watch F1 or
(c) don't understand motor sports or
(d) hate Ferrari or
(e) are jealous of Ferrari's and Schuey's success or
(f) all of the above

SO......GET A LIFE !!!

Wrong. F1 is my second favourite sport behind Footy...ive loved it for 15 years and have a whole heap of memorabilia and videos on it. Just because you dont like contrived results doesnt mean you dont like or 'understand' the sport. Schumacher has been my favourite driver ever since i met him at West Lakes in 1991 and got a signed photo with him. I just dont like contrived results like that. Takes away from the event.

 

[red+black]

Originally posted by Winston Wolf
Is anybody holding a gun to your heads ? forcing you to watch F1 ?

Obviously the biggest whingers in here either : -
(a) don't like F1 or
(b) don't watch F1 or
(c) don't understand motor sports or
(d) hate Ferrari or
(e) are jealous of Ferrari's and Schuey's success or
(f) all of the above

SO......GET A LIFE !!!

And I would be highly suprised if you actually like any form of motor sport !!!

a. i do like F1
b. i do watch F1
c. i do understand motor sports
d. i do not hate ferrari
e. whatever
f. whatever

you are obviously in the MINORITY. read the press reports, and they include statements from current and former drivers and constructors.

wake up to yourself.

 

[red+black]

Originally posted by Boofhead
You guys who are knocking F1, then don't watch it. I don't like horse racing.

Solution: I don't watch it. So don't bitch about it.

And those who say that Michael Schumacher is nothing special. You truly are idiots. He strived for Jordan, Belted them for Benneton, and now he is the best driver in a FERRARI. Pure Ignorance.

You really are soft aren't you? a little over defensive perhaps? who likes horse racing anyway? i don't think anyone has questioned michael's skills. he will go down as one of the greatest drivers ever. do you see people complaining about formula one when crap like this DOESN'T happen? admittedly it is rare, and lucky for the sport and the fans that that is the case, because it wouldn't want to occur more than once in a blue moon.

i'll be watching the remainder of the season, no problems. i'll get over it. people like you are probably used to taking credit for other people's achievements. you're a joke.

 

[gPhonque]

Compare it to this:

We're in Round 8 (or whatever round) and Matthew Lloyd has kicked 9 goals for the match. We're 30mins into the final quarter.

Essendon are well in front.

James Hird is running into an open goal with no defenders in sight of him.

Lloyd is running with him.

Hird, rather than kicking the goal himself and possibly depriving Lloyd the chance for his 10th decides to handball to Lloyd, who duly kicks the goal and brings up his tenth.

Ok - it doesn't effect the result of the game, (although neither does Barrichello letting Schumacher past - Ferrari still win) but Lloyd goes into the record books as having kicked 10 when in fact, he had one handed to him by a teammate.

 

[M29]

Am I the only one here who watches it for the crashes?

 

[Winston Wolf]

red+black

don't assume i'm in the minority, cos I didn't like the team orders given on Sunday either, (any more than Barichello did) But I accept the fact that they are part of the unwritten rules of the sport and always have been in F1.

until they are specifically outlawed, they are at every team's disposal, no matter what you and I think about them.

if you really want to add some constructive criticism, then speculate on what you think FIA will actually do at the June 26 hearing that they have summonsed the Ferrari team to. Will they have the b.a.l.l.s. to strip Ferrari of points ? and enforce a rule change ? can they actually do it ?

 

[Smokin]

Its not the first time this sorta thing has happened.
If it was such a problem, they woulda changed the rule by now.

It's not fair on rubens, of course - but Ferrari isnt there for Rubens to win a drivers championship. Thats the reality that people have to face.

Footballers often sacrifice for the team - its no big deal.

Rubens is under contract with Ferrari to do what they say - and he did.

If he doesnt like it, he shouldnt have signed the contract. He hasnt made a big fuss about it anyway.

And for articles condemning it - remember Ferrari is the most hated team in the world (and most loved) - very predictable.

 

[Desredandwhite]

Schumi was on 40ish points, RB on 6. The team did what it had to do to benefit its #1 driver... They already had 16 points sewn up with the 1-2 finish. They did nothing ILLEGAL per se by the rules. How silly do you look if you end up losing the drivers championship by 2 or 3 points? RB was far back enough points-wise so that his extra 4 points wouldn't have done diddly squat for the championship.

having said that, the incident has left a bad taste in my mouth, and at least Schumi had the decency to be embarrased by it.

Until they change the rules, teams will do what is best for the team.

 

[elt]

Very disappointing result but in no way unexpected. Teams will always do whatever they can to win and ensure a championship. The result may well appear contrived but it is within the rules so if you want to blame someone, blame the FIA for not outlawing it.

Sure they wailed and threw their hands in the air when it happened in Australia but until they decide to actually force the issue it's nothing more than crocodile tears.

For that reason I don't think they can bring down any penalty against Schumacher or Ferrari for the team orders. Where Schuey may be in trouble is for the antics that went on at the presentation. The FIA may try to get him for that seeing as they can't do much about the race itself.

Just on the points being made about the drivers' championship. People are saying that the winner is not necessarily the best driver. I agree. But put it in a team sport context. In team sports individual awards aren't nearly as meaningful as the team collectively winning.

We don't automatically assume that you have to win the Brownlow to be a champion do we? Would Lloydy kick 100 goals in a wooden spoon team? Once you place the drivers' championship in context it makes more sense.

 

[milo]

Rubens will regret it at the end of his career. Currently has 1 (i think) F1 victory. Obviously could have been more and the rcords will understate his actual achievements.

 

[mongrelpunt]

Barrichello is the number 2 driver. The only way that will change is if Schumacher's leg falls off in the next race.

If Barrichello says no to the team, the second he steps out of the car, he steps out of Ferrari forever.

Ferrari are the most expensive team in F1 (or maybe across the world in racing), and they can buy and sell Barrichello or anyone else for that matter. If Barrichello won't take the bump (so to speak), they will just delve into the mountains of people who would love to drive for Ferrari, and make him #2.

Once Schuey has enough points for the championship (not many to go to clinch it) he & Rubens can race amongst each other, and try to win each race. Barrichello may not have won in Austria, but with that car behind him, there is no doubt that he won't win another.

Just one thing, once the championship is Schumachers, if Michael was leading a race and Barrichello was second, I'm sure that the team would say to Michael to let Barrichello through and take the win. One thing better than winning a championship is having both drivers 1st and 2nd in the championship, as well as blitzing everyone in the constructers. Would show how dominate the Ferraris were this year. (its a very big if, but you wait and see)

 

[red+black]

i have no problem with Ferrari doing what they did. It was within the rules. But it is time for the FIA to act. Change the rules to avoid such happenings. The reason it hasn't come to a head before is because it is rare, but each time it happens brings the issue to the fore yet again. I think the rules should be changed starting next year. For the current incident, I don't think Ferrari should be stripped of points. I think Rubens should be declared winner and get the 10 points, while Michael get the 6 he deserved. Personally I doubt anything will be done. If it happens again this year, then maybe action will be taken.

I apologise for getting so rude and personal last night.

 

[Winston Wolf]

no offence taken red+black

as you can see F1 is a very passionate sport to many of us, and it is bound to generate some heated discussion

BTW, what do you make of some reports which are saying that Schuey's actions on the podium are being investigated by FIA, and that it was a serious breach of protocol ?

 

[red+black]

it's funny that what happened on the track might go unpunished, yet the breach of protocol at the podium might get a serious looking into.

i reckon the incident is giving rubens some sleepless nights.

to be honest, i wouldn't have an issue with the team orders if it was deemed absolutely necessary eg. last couple of races. i mean, honestly, we all know that michael will win this year, even without the bonus 4 points from the weekend. whether he's just putting on a front for the press, michael himself has expressed regret about the incident and admitted that even at the last second, by slowing down he tried to convey to rubens that maybe they should break team rules.

we all know how good michael is, and he simply didn't need the points. as if montoya is going to be seriously chalenging for the title come season's end.

i think nothing will happen. unless the same thing occurs in a race before the june 26 hearing.

 

[oh_my_hat]

I don't really care about it either way but it is a bit silly to argue that it is a team sport and then try to defend this move. If it was truly a team sport as suggested and the constructors championship was paramount then surely it wouldn't matter what order the 2 Ferraris finished as they still get maximum points no matter what.

Another thing that made me laugh the other day was that a friend was trying to tell me that if Schmacher was in a Minardi he would be finishing in the points every race (barring accidents/mechanical failures) and even win a few races. It's great to be a fan of the man and he is a great driver but c'mon...

 

[shiva25]

Poor old Rubens.Only 1 race win in his whole career and gets 1 taken off him by a bunch of phuckwits who decide its better for the team to let shuey win.
I wonder what all those who had money on Rubens to win would be feeling like now.What a bunch of aassholes

 

[shiva25]

Originally posted by gPhonque
Compare it to this:

We're in Round 8 (or whatever round) and Matthew Lloyd has kicked 9 goals for the match. We're 30mins into the final quarter.

Essendon are well in front.

James Hird is running into an open goal with no defenders in sight of him.

Lloyd is running with him.

Hird, rather than kicking the goal himself and possibly depriving Lloyd the chance for his 10th decides to handball to Lloyd, who duly kicks the goal and brings up his tenth.

Ok - it doesn't effect the result of the game, (although neither does Barrichello letting Schumacher past - Ferrari still win) but Lloyd goes into the record books as having kicked 10 when in fact, he had one handed to him by a teammate.

What a ridiculous comparison
How can you compare kicking goals in a game of footy with f1 racing whereby not only are teams wanting to win a title but drivers are also trying to be world champion as well
Ferrari would have got the points regardless of whether rubens had won but in doing so have robbed rubens of world championship points to which he is entitled to to challenge for the drivers championship

 

[Smokin]

Originally posted by shiva25
but in doing so have robbed rubens of world championship points to which he is entitled to to challenge for the drivers championship

Wrong.

Under his agreement with Ferrari, he is the #2 driver, which means Schu is #1 driver and as a team, their first priority is to get Schu to win the drivers championship, THEN try to get Rubens to come second. In that order.

Its why if Schu ever gets in front, and Rubens is second, Rubens will back off a bit, allowing Schu to pull away lap after lap. Same thing.

It is why he quoted his contract - under his agreement he is not there to win (unless something happens to Schu). He didnt have to sign that contract, but if he wants to drive for Ferrari, thems the rules.

Under current laws this is perfectly legal and thats how they operate. Ferrari wasnt the first to do this, and if they dont change the rules, wont be the last.

 

[oh_my_hat]

Perhaps an angle you Schumacher/Ferrari apologists could explore to justify this charade that was the decision by Ferrari under the ‘team sport’ banner is that by pushing Schumacher to the driver’s championship it also enables them to keep the coveted NUMBER 1 race number on one of their cars for another (next) season.

Wasn’t this an issue back in 1996 or 1997 when a driver (let’s call him Damon Hill) won the World Driver’s Championship and then switched teams (let’s call them Arrow’s) and took the number 1 race number with him (or was attempting to) which caused a huge upheaval. It would be a miracle if all this detail was accurate but I am sure that this issue fits somewhere into this equation under ‘racing is a team sport’ argument.

 

[Smokin]

Tell me -

Why didnt Williams, with Alan Jones and Carlos Reutemann, not win the 1981 world championship?

Why did the press howl them? Why were they critisized so heavily?

Cant have it both ways, oh fair and unbiased media!


Is it different to Inzaghi getting brought down in the area, then the order is sent out that Del Piero must take the penalty?