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Fallout: 2022

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We gonna be better next year easily. I can see us jumping up to 12 or something before dropping off again in 2024, 2025.
I expect Simmo will do everything in his power to get some wins as a competitor himself and to placate the board. I expect a constant balancing act with selection like 2018 when we had a range of players debut (we had a spring in our step).

No reason why our veterans wont produce solid seasons and with a bit of luck we can get close to a best 22 on field with the odd younger player preferred for roles. My fear is that I think we will be constantly not the worst but in that pick 4-5 range over the ensuing rebuild. Based on location- WA games are heavily weighted in our favour so an poor team has the chance to knock off most comers.
 
dinnaz said:
We gonna be better next year easily. I can see us jumping up to 12 or something before dropping off again in 2024, 2025.
I expect Simmo will do everything in his power to get some wins as a competitor himself and to placate the board. I expect a constant balancing act with selection like 2018 when we had a range of players debut (we had a spring in our step).

No reason why our veterans wont produce solid seasons and with a bit of luck we can get close to a best 22 on field with the odd younger player preferred for roles. My fear is that I think we will be constantly not the worst but in that pick 4-5 range over the ensuing rebuild. Based on location- WA games are heavily weighted in our favour so an poor team has the chance to knock off most comers.
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We aren't making the 8, I think most (all?) around here agree on that. So yeah we're pretty much splitting hairs around whether we finish 18th or 12th.

I expect the bottom 2 will be closer on wins to 14th, 15th, 16th than this year (I.e.not 5 wins compared to 2).

There are a few teams who will be poor, us, essendon, nth, Adelaide look certainties. There will be a few more (could be GWS, Hawks like this year, or other teams).

Noting we double up against at least 3 of these teams, 6-8 wins for the year isn't impossible.

The main points are don't tank, and ensure we play the youth where possible.

On SM-G986B using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
This year was a train wreck but there were some real similarities with another year that was a train wreck for us, a year we only won 4 games and got the spoon.

In 2010

Darren Glass played 8 games
Sam Butler 5 games
Luke Shuey 6 games
Daniel Kerr 4 games
Chris Masten 13 games
Shannon Hurn 15 games
Mitch Brown 13 games
Brad Shepperd 13 games
Mark Nicoski 6 games
Quinten Lynch 14 games
Ashley Hansen 2 games
Adam Selwood 16 games

Not to mention Naitanui, Glass and JK played with injuries all year and guys like Dean Cox and Masto had no pre season at all.

We struggled with injury all year and was never able to get a decent side on the park.

I’m not claiming we will bounce back for a top 4 result in 2023 but consistency and injuries always make things seem worse than it really is.

Funny enough we went into the 2010 draft with 4, 26, 29 and we know how that turned out.

I see some similarities between that year and this one and IF we manage to stay fit I am pretty confident we will not be bottom 4.
 
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swingdog said:
On next year’s ladder position, as others have said, I’d be happy with playing the kids and an improved game plan.

I can see us ending up with the same amount of wins, but closer losses. It wasn’t just that we lost this year, in most games we were barely on the park.
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That was us in 2017 and 2018.
 
ThePuma #9 said:
This year was a train wreck but there were some real similarities with another year that was a train wreck for us, a year we only won 4 games and got the spoon.

In 2010

Darren Glass played 8 games
Sam Butler 5 games
Luke Shuey 6 games
Daniel Kerr 4 games
Chris Masten 13 games
Shannon Hurn 15 games
Mitch Brown 13 games
Brad Shepperd 13 games
Mark Nicoski 6 games
Quinten Lynch 14 games
Ashley Hansen 2 games
Adam Selwood 16 games

Not to mention Naitanui, Glass and JK played with injuries all year and guys like Dean Cox and Masto had no pre season at all.

We struggled with injury all year and was never able to get a decent side on the park.

I’m not claiming we will bounce back for a top 4 result in 2023 but consistency and injuries always make things seem worse than it really is.

Funny enough we went into the 2010 draft with 4, 26, 29 and we know how that turned out.

I see some similarities between that year and this one and IF we manage to stay fit I am pretty confident we will not be bottom 4.
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I have already detailed why this rebuild is different to past ones and you have conveniently ommitted critical details. The Kelly trade, dearth of top 10's in last 10 year's, holding onto to majority of players from golden years. We don't have the young players we did back then, most outside observers have us locked into a 5 year rebuild, only on here the feeling is different. Naitainui and Kennedy and Sheppherd were excellent picks/trades. We had Shuey Gaff darling all fairly high picks. We don't have anywhere near that here? What sad delusion 😞. D barrett had come out today and said other than o Allen he sees no difference in west coast next year. You might say it's only Barrett but get outside this bubble and you will find most reputable commentators have us short odds for the spoon and on a 5 year long rebuild. But keep telling yourself otherwise
 
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Westcoast88 said:
I have already detailed why this rebuild is different to past ones and you have conveniently ommitted critical details. The Kelly trade, dearth of top 10's in last 10 year's, holding onto to majority of players from golden years. We don't have the young players we did back then, most outside observers have us locked into a 5 year rebuild, only on here the feeling is different. Naitainui and Kennedy and Sheppherd were excellent picks/trades. We had Shuey Gaff darling all fairly high picks. We don't have anywhere near that here? What sad delusion 😞. D barrett had come out today and said other than o Allen he sees no difference in west coast next year. You might say it's only Barrett but get outside this bubble and you will find most reputable commentators have us short odds for the spoon and on a 5 year long rebuild. But keep telling yourself otherwise
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Morning all, love reading this, Dockers88 and his mate Purple. Wishing for spoons everyday!
 
Westcoast88 said:
I have already detailed why this rebuild is different to past ones and you have conveniently ommitted critical details. The Kelly trade, dearth of top 10's in last 10 year's, holding onto to majority of players from golden years. We don't have the young players we did back then, most outside observers have us locked into a 5 year rebuild, only on here the feeling is different. Naitainui and Kennedy and Sheppherd were excellent picks/trades. We had Shuey Gaff darling all fairly high picks. We don't have anywhere near that here? What sad delusion 😞. D barrett had come out today and said other than o Allen he sees no difference in west coast next year. You might say it's only Barrett but get outside this bubble and you will find most reputable commentators have us short odds for the spoon and on a 5 year long rebuild. But keep telling yourself otherwise
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Define a rebuild? Is it just bottom 4 finishes?
 
dinnaz said:
Define a rebuild? Is it just bottom 4 finishes?
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I've already detailed my position many times, I've had the conviction to continually put my views out there and been open to criticism. I think if you want to question someone's else's views you need to have the courage to detail your own first.
 
Westcoast88 said:
I have already detailed why this rebuild is different to past ones and you have conveniently ommitted critical details. The Kelly trade, dearth of top 10's in last 10 year's, holding onto to majority of players from golden years. We don't have the young players we did back then, most outside observers have us locked into a 5 year rebuild, only on here the feeling is different. Naitainui and Kennedy and Sheppherd were excellent picks/trades. We had Shuey Gaff darling all fairly high picks. We don't have anywhere near that here? What sad delusion 😞. D barrett had come out today and said other than o Allen he sees no difference in west coast next year. You might say it's only Barrett but get outside this bubble and you will find most reputable commentators have us short odds for the spoon and on a 5 year long rebuild. But keep telling yourself otherwise
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The AFL media are in general a bunch of **** knuckles who echo the general sentiment, try not to rock the boat too much unless it suits them to drop a shock headline.
People also forget that Barrett and others are good reporters but not good footy brains. They don't know shit about 3/4 of a teams list. I trust a supporters invested knowledge over the so called media experts.

Westcoast88 said:
I've already detailed my position many times, I've had the conviction to continually put my views out there and been open to criticism. I think if you want to question someone's else's views you need to have the courage to detail your own first.
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Well ill take that to mean that a "rebuild" consists of non finals finishes. We will never again be as bad as season 2022 even with everything going wrong as it did this year. We are never a bottom 4 side based on home ground advantage and adept management. We likely finish around 12-14 for a couple of years until pushing for an elimination final in 2025-2026. I would love to have pick 2 for consecutive years (avoiding the spoon), jag a couple of superstars and become the team to beat. Will it happen nope!
 
Westcoast88 said:
I've already detailed my position many times, I've had the conviction to continually put my views out there and been open to criticism. I think if you want to question someone's else's views you need to have the courage to detail your own first.
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So your idea of a rebuild is to follow clubs like Dockers, North, Saints and Carlton.

Historically our list build have looked more like those of teams that don’t bottom out, Sydney, Geelong, Collingwood.

We are never down for long, and alway close to contenting, it’s why the rest of the comp hates us so much.

We are winners, not losers like your wishing!!
 
Westcoast88 said:
I have already detailed why this rebuild is different to past ones and you have conveniently ommitted critical details. The Kelly trade, dearth of top 10's in last 10 year's, holding onto to majority of players from golden years. We don't have the young players we did back then, most outside observers have us locked into a 5 year rebuild, only on here the feeling is different. Naitainui and Kennedy and Sheppherd were excellent picks/trades. We had Shuey Gaff darling all fairly high picks. We don't have anywhere near that here? What sad delusion [emoji20]. D barrett had come out today and said other than o Allen he sees no difference in west coast next year. You might say it's only Barrett but get outside this bubble and you will find most reputable commentators have us short odds for the spoon and on a 5 year long rebuild. But keep telling yourself otherwise
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The big issue here is 'experts' have no idea about West Coast (or most teams TBH). See 2018, when we were destined for the bottom of the ladder and had missed our window (not just walls, but he was the funniest).

Or Hagdorn delisting Ainsworth this year

A miracle year with everything going right, yeah we make the 8 (that is Shuey and Yeo turning back the clock, along with Nic. Allen coming on, Darling taking over from JK, Barrass continuing, Gov back to his best, etc). Very unlikely.

But we had an absolute shocker of a year in 2022. Most things that could go wrong did. We bring in 5ish high end talents next season (Culley, Chesser, #2, #20, #27). Some of those guys will improve the squad.

I'm thinking 5-8 wins in 2023 is around the mark (not saying I am happy about it, just that is the par score). No way we are as bad as 2022.

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shooshka said:
The big issue here is 'experts' have no idea about West Coast (or most teams TBH). See 2018, when we were destined for the bottom of the ladder and had missed our window (not just walls, but he was the funniest).

Or Hagdorn delisting Ainsworth this year

A miracle year with everything going right, yeah we make the 8 (that is Shuey and Yeo turning back the clock, along with Nic. Allen coming on, Darling taking over from JK, Barrass continuing, Gov back to his best, etc). Very unlikely.

But we had an absolute shocker of a year in 2022. Most things that could go wrong did. We bring in 5ish high end talents next season (Culley, Chesser, #2, #20, #27). Some of those guys will improve the squad.

I'm thinking 5-8 wins in 2023 is around the mark (not saying I am happy about it, just that is the par score). No way we are as bad as 2022.

On SM-G986B using BigFooty.com mobile app
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Well worded, your position allows for hope and possible improvement. Well said!

Unlike Wishing88, who wishes for us to tank, stay last for 5 years and calls it long term thinking!!
 

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ChasingFlags25 said:
Well worded, your position allows for hope and possible improvement. Well said!

Unlike Wishing88, who wishes for us to tank, stay last for 5 years and calls it long term thinking!!
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I don’t think anyone is wishing for us to tank, be terrible or stay at the bottom for half a decade.

Many of us are just realistic enough with where our list is at, the natural improvement of the teams around us who have been bad for years and the need for say someone like Port to really bottom out for us to move up the ladder.

To reiterate, I hope like hell we will improve and win more games. I just don’t expect it for next year (which is fine considering we have been at the top).
 
I’ve seen lo
Westcoast88 said:
I have already detailed why this rebuild is different to past ones and you have conveniently ommitted critical details. The Kelly trade, dearth of top 10's in last 10 year's, holding onto to majority of players from golden years. We don't have the young players we did back then, most outside observers have us locked into a 5 year rebuild, only on here the feeling is different. Naitainui and Kennedy and Sheppherd were excellent picks/trades. We had Shuey Gaff darling all fairly high picks. We don't have anywhere near that here? What sad delusion 😞. D barrett had come out today and said other than o Allen he sees no difference in west coast next year. You might say it's only Barrett but get outside this bubble and you will find most reputable commentators have us short odds for the spoon and on a 5 year long rebuild. But keep telling yourself otherwise
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Firstly, i don't even know who you are but welcome to the page.

Secondly, i didn't quote you directly or indirectly and my observations were merely a differing opinion on the conversation at the time in regards to our finishing position NEXT year.

Lastly, at no point have i made any predictions about the length of our rebuild, the circumstances surrounding the depth of our list or anything else you rattled on about. I merely stated i see similarities between our last bad year and the one we just currently had and IF you had looked more closely at what i was saying it had something to do with the availability and health of the list.


Since you're new around here allow me to give you a modicum of advice. You are no more an expert than anyone else here and everyone is entitled to an opinion, no one on this page is afraid of differing views or constructive criticism but just try and play nicely with others even if you don't agree with them or you won't last long.


Like my pappy says, Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and most are full of shit.
 
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dinnaz said:
The AFL media are in general a bunch of * knuckles who echo the general sentiment, try not to rock the boat too much unless it suits them to drop a shock headline.
People also forget that Barrett and others are good reporters but not good footy brains. They don't know s**t about 3/4 of a teams list. I trust a supporters invested knowledge over the so called media experts.


Well ill take that to mean that a "rebuild" consists of non finals finishes. We will never again be as bad as season 2022 even with everything going wrong as it did this year. We are never a bottom 4 side based on home ground advantage and adept management. We likely finish around 12-14 for a couple of years until pushing for an elimination final in 2025-2026. I would love to have pick 2 for consecutive years (avoiding the spoon), jag a couple of superstars and become the team to beat. Will it happen nope!
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How exactly will west coast be making finals in 2025 ? So your logic is you a supporter know more than all the outside media, right. Not a view I agree with and seems extremely biased but each to their own. I generally agree with your definition of a rebuild although it's not black and white and some rebuilds can be half arsed. Ive detailed my reasons in many posts as to why I believe this rebuild will take longer and no one has been able to argue against those points as yet.
 
Westcoast88 said:
How exactly will west coast be making finals in 2025 ? So your logic is you a supporter know more than all the outside media, right. Not a view I agree with and seems extremely biased but each to their own. I generally agree with your definition of a rebuild although it's not black and white and some rebuilds can be half arsed. Ive detailed my reasons in many posts as to why I believe this rebuild will take longer and no one has been able to argue against those points as yet.
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Ageing list but pretty hard to access how bad it actually is given that we probably averaged around 30 players to select from each game throughout the season and it wasn't just the older players that were unavailable for selection.
 
ThePuma #9 said:
I’ve seen lo



Firstly, i don't even know who you are but welcome to the page.

Secondly, i didn't quote you directly or indirectly and my observations were merely a differing opinion on the conversation at the time in regards to our finishing position NEXT year.

Lastly, at no point have i made any predictions about the length of our rebuild, the circumstances surrounding the depth of our list or anything else you rattled on about. I merely stated i see similarities between our last bad year and the one we just currently had and IF you had looked more closely at what i was saying it had something to do with the availability and health of the list.


Since you're new around here allow me to give you a modicum of advice. You are no more an expert than anyone else here and everyone is entitled to an opinion, no one on this page is afraid of differing views or constructive criticism but just try and play nicely with others even if you don't agree with them or you won't last long.


Like my pappy says, Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and most are full of s**t.
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Firstly. Not knowing who I am lol. Is that meant to be offensive.
Secondly never said you did quote me ?
Thirdly no issue with you expressing your view, same as I express mine
Fourthly I am allowed to disagree with you, disagreements will happen from time to time on a forum. I disagree with your point of seeing similarities to 2011, I merely expressed a different point of view sorry if I offended you. I felt my post was quite tame to be honest.

Fiftly I never said I was an expert. It seems to me your the one who can't handle an opposing view threatening that I wont be here for long if I keep it up. People will disagree with you in life mate, geez get over it i disagreed with you. I didnt abuse you. You seem to have taken this very personally. Id hate to see how you handle disagreement in the real world.
 
Westcoast88 said:
Firstly. Not knowing who I am lol. Is that meant to be offensive.
Secondly never said you did quote me ?
Thirdly no issue with you expressing your view, same as I express mine
Fourthly I am allowed to disagree with you, disagreements will happen from time to time on a forum. I disagree with your point of seeing similarities to 2011, I merely expressed a different point of view sorry if I offended you. I felt my post was quite tame to be honest.

Fiftly I never said I was an expert. It seems to me your the one who can't handle an opposing view threatening that I wont be here for long if I keep it up. People will disagree with you in life mate, geez get over it i disagreed with you. I didnt abuse you. You seem to have taken this very personally. Id hate to see how you handle disagreement in the real world.
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I think the general consensus is we all understand your position on long term thinking/ rebuild strategy.
Maybe we are all just sick of reading it every time someone posts an opinion that’s optimistic or looking positively towards our future.

The club can’t choose to finish last for the next 5 years. We have the largest membership in the AFL and the expectation on the club is to be winners!

And to date, we have been one of the luckiest supporter bases in the country, and I can’t see that changing.
 

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ChasingFlags25 said:
I think the general consensus is we all understand your position on long term thinking/ rebuild strategy.
Maybe we are all just sick of reading it every time someone posts an opinion that’s optimistic or looking positively towards our future.

The club can’t choose to finish last for the next 5 years. We have the largest membership in the AFL and the expectation on the club is to be winners!

And to date, we have been one of the luckiest supporter bases in the country, and I can’t see that changing.
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Never said we should finish last 5 years running. Threatening to have someone be kicked off the forum just for disagreeing is pretty low. Im entitled to keep talking about it if it keeps being brought up. Funny how the ones who don't like it are the ones who disagree. You must want an echo chamber
 
Westcoast88 said:
Never said we should finish last 5 years running. Threatening to have someone be kicked off the forum just for disagreeing is pretty low. Im entitled to keep talking about it if it keeps being brought up. Funny how the ones who don't like it are the ones who disagree. You must want an echo chamber
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Yes you did, and you called it ‘Long Term Thinking’

I haven’t threatened you with removal from this forum.

Just don’t agree with your believe or any of your forward thinking. In all posts your just plain wrong, or can’t possibly foresee what happens in 2025 or beyond!
 
Westcoast88 said:
I have already detailed why this rebuild is different to past ones and you have conveniently ommitted critical details. The Kelly trade, dearth of top 10's in last 10 year's, holding onto to majority of players from golden years. We don't have the young players we did back then, most outside observers have us locked into a 5 year rebuild, only on here the feeling is different. Naitainui and Kennedy and Sheppherd were excellent picks/trades. We had Shuey Gaff darling all fairly high picks. We don't have anywhere near that here? What sad delusion 😞. D barrett had come out today and said other than o Allen he sees no difference in west coast next year. You might say it's only Barrett but get outside this bubble and you will find most reputable commentators have us short odds for the spoon and on a 5 year long rebuild. But keep telling yourself otherwise
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Westcoast88 said:
Firstly. Not knowing who I am lol. Is that meant to be offensive.
Secondly never said you did quote me ?
Thirdly no issue with you expressing your view, same as I express mine
Fourthly I am allowed to disagree with you, disagreements will happen from time to time on a forum. I disagree with your point of seeing similarities to 2011, I merely expressed a different point of view sorry if I offended you. I felt my post was quite tame to be honest.

Fiftly I never said I was an expert. It seems to me your the one who can't handle an opposing view threatening that I wont be here for long if I keep it up. People will disagree with you in life mate, geez get over it i disagreed with you. I didnt abuse you. You seem to have taken this very personally. Id hate to see how you handle disagreement in the real world.
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"I have already detailed why this rebuild is different to past ones and you have conveniently ommitted critical details."

You're speaking directly to me and claim i have conveniently omitted critical details. I don't know who you are and haven't engaged you in any form of conversation so i'm a little confused how you could've already pointed anything out to me if we haven't spoken. This is why i mentioned i don't know who you are.


I welcome you to the board and you reply

"Not knowing who I am lol. Is that meant to be offensive."

Take a deep breath.



You proceed to inform me of these omitted details which apparently include but i'm certain are not limited to.....

"The Kelly trade"

"dearth of top 10's in last 10 year's"

"holding onto to majority of players from golden years"

How is any of this relevant to what i said? All i mentioned is there were similarities between our last poor year where we won 4 games and this year where we won 2. Those similarities were an injury plagued playing list and lack of consistency which is what i made comment of.


Now you're explaining to me that "most outside observers have us locked into a 5 year rebuild"

Where did i mention anything about our rebuild or the length of it?


After all of this you make the passing comment "what a sad delusion".

Why am i sadly deluded exactly?


I recommend the way you speak to people on here will go a long way to how you are perceived since you seem to be a little combative after commenting i am sadly deluded and there is no issue with disagreeing with someone but to do it with some respect to which you reply

"It seems to me your the one who can't handle an opposing view threatening that I wont be here for long if I keep it up."

"geez get over it i disagreed with you"

"You seem to have taken this very personally"

I find you a little obtuse but it seems to me you're the one that's taking things personally, i'd prefer to know what you are exactly disagreeing with me over since it's not quite clear. Are you disagreeing with me that we had injuries in 2010 similar to this year and if we were fit this year we may have won more games or that if we are fit next year we won't win more games?




Just so we are clear i'll summerize for you. I merely explained i don't know who you are, i'm perplexed why you are quoting me and giving me a lecture pertaining to my post, which you obviously had issue with when none of the above is relevant to my post.

I stated there are similarities between 2010 and this year due to injuries and lack of consistency, nothing more and that as a result of injuries and lack of fit players we struggled to win games. I never said it was the only reason we struggled this year, or that a rebuild wasn't required, or we don't have depth or quality young players, or anything in regards to the length of our rebuild and i challenge you to go back to my post and show me where i did.

I don't think many on this board wouldn't believe that we wouldn't have won more games IF the entire playing squad was fit and i hardly think it's a stretch to assume IF we have a fully fit team next year that we will win more games and it's possible we don't finish bottom 4.

Don't forget to pay close attention to the word IF. I even made it capitols on that post too as if to emphasize to those who may miss the point of the post all together, which i'm going to point out.........you did.
 
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ChasingFlags25 said:
I think the general consensus is we all understand your position on long term thinking/ rebuild strategy.
ery time someone posts an opinion that’s optimistic or looking positively towards our future.

The club can’t choose to finish last for the next 5 years. We have the largest membership in the AFL and the expectation on the club is to be winners!

And to date, we have been one of the luckiest supporter bases in the country, and I can’t see that changing.
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ChasingFlags25 said:
I think the general consensus is we all understand your position on long term thinking/ rebuild strategy.
Maybe we are all just sick of reading it every time someone posts an opinion that’s optimistic or looking positively towards our future.

The club can’t choose to finish last for the next 5 years. We have the largest membership in the AFL and the expectation on the club is to be winners!

And to date, we have been one of the luckiest supporter bases in the country, and I can’t see that changing.
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Spare us the “we all” and “we are all” rhetoric, you don’t speak for this board. You past performance guarantees future performance theory is naive in the extreme, it did little for Carlton and Essendon.

You post like an 8 year child. If you are an 8 year old child, then that’s fair enough. Otherwise, grow up.
 
plays tall 1 said:
Spare us the “we all” and “we are all” rhetoric, you don’t speak for this board. You past performance guarantees future performance theory is naive in the extreme, it did little for Carlton and Essendon.

You post like an 8 year child. If you are an 8 year old child, then that’s fair enough. Otherwise, grow up.
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12, but your close!
 

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