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Fallout: 2022

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And the loss of Sheppard to concussion as well.

3 things.

1. Simpson can't come out and say the complete opposite to Nisbett.
2. We have to keep the ageing players as their replacements are ****ing shit or a couple of years away from being ready.
3. We truly were ****ed with injuries (a lot of unavoidable ones too) and Covid (i've now had it twice and the second time maybe it's because of injuries but i am wrecked all the time so can imagine in so many ways it's like wiping out a preseason if it happens at the wrong time. Having been through a minor ankle recon plus syndemosis atm it's a long injury. I used to work part time, do weights and walk 10+ KM a day with my big dog. Just the time off the leg has killed my cardio, loss of about 4kg's of muscle and addition of 5kg's of fat. I'm only eating twice a day too and healthy as well. A little hard when your calorie requirement goes from 2700-3000 to half that.
 
Balls In said:
I'm glad Cornes shone a light on our decline as a club. A decline that has grown steadily worse over 4 years and delivered our worst season ever. For some reason Perth media wont do this.
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Yeah until Cornes mentioned it, I hadn’t noticed
 

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Deplorable trumpster said:
It's not very hard to do better than 2 wins. Pretty low bar you are setting there. Are you arguing that we are still a top 8 team and that this list in general and the current best 22 will get better over time rather than worse if it is left unchanged from what it is now? You left those key points untouched.
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No team will get better over time if left untouched as the game is always evolving. We clearly need to be regenerating our list and are doing so.

Could this squad be a top 8 team? I think any list that has reasonable KPP has the ability to bounce back quickly, as small players are readily available and able to make an impact quickly in a team. For this to happen next year, we would need a very good run with injury (so our best stay on the park) and the team to be able to execute the new gameplan. Possible, but not likely.
 
My worry is that we have a pretty good run with injuries next year and bounce back to say 10th. Then at the end of the next year the hierarchy will say 'we are heading in the right direction'. Then 2024-25 we end up 10th again or maybe even get into the finals - only to make up the numbers.
Better to be down lower on the ladder (with better draft picks) BUT make hard decisions that are more likely to see us seriously contending sooner rather than just finishing 7-10th for years.
 
Grahame said:
My worry is that we have a pretty good run with injuries next year and bounce back to say 10th. Then at the end of the next year the hierarchy will say 'we are heading in the right direction'. Then 2024-25 we end up 10th again or maybe even get into the finals - only to make up the numbers.
Better to be down lower on the ladder (with better draft picks) BUT make hard decisions that are more likely to see us seriously contending sooner rather than just finishing 7-10th for years.
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Yeah, what you described is what happened to Freo. I don't think they have a list to win a premiership as their KPF aren't good enough. Maybe Amiss fixes this, but it could be another 4 years before he is able to lead the forward line.
 
Rowan18 said:
Yeah, what you described is what happened to Freo. I don't think they have a list to win a premiership as their KPF aren't good enough. Maybe Amiss fixes this, but it could be another 4 years before he is able to lead the forward line.
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That Hogan trade..
 
Grahame said:
My worry is that we have a pretty good run with injuries next year and bounce back to say 10th. Then at the end of the next year the hierarchy will say 'we are heading in the right direction'. Then 2024-25 we end up 10th again or maybe even get into the finals - only to make up the numbers.
Better to be down lower on the ladder (with better draft picks) BUT make hard decisions that are more likely to see us seriously contending sooner rather than just finishing 7-10th for years.
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10th looks like our absolute top possible finishing position next year. Even if one club drops out of the 8 (usually 1-2 do), there are 4 waiting for that spot who should all improve (Saints maybe the one team who don't).

We should win more games against teams around us (Hawks, Adelaide, Essendon, GWS, Nth - we are capable of beating all of them with a fit list), but I don't see us snagging 3-5 wins against top 8 sides. Maybe 1 or 2 (like this year... thanks Collingwood!), but not more than that.

It's almost guaranteed we have a top-8 draft pick next year (top-10 likely even if there are a couple of early F/S or academy players). In a draft that is meant to be stronger (and stronger on KPP).

2024 I expect we will be on the path to improvement, way too early to predict a finishing position (somewhere middle part of the ladder would be reasonable) - but I don't think we should be expecting or wanting top-5 picks in 2024 or 2025.
 
TBH with retirements coming and very little in behind them I think we are in this position outside of a potential dead cat bounce next year for the next 3 years before we start to see a ladder climb. This is so easily the worst i've seen our list it's not even close.
 
WCE_phil said:
TBH with retirements coming and very little in behind them I think we are in this position outside of a potential dead cat bounce next year for the next 3 years before we start to see a ladder climb. This is so easily the worst i've seen our list it's not even close.
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It makes you question how the hell its been allowed to get in the shape that it is currently…..
the refusal to cull no hopers after two years and hang on to cloggers for 6-8 years really is baffling..you don’t have to be a genius to see who can play and who cant and move them on. Make the recruiters and list management team earn their cash and find replacement players who can enhance a list not cloggers think outside the box and get players, not athletes with potential to be players.
 
The list would be in much better shape. If we recruited some athletes. We've recruited 1 athlete in Petch and can't keep him on the park.

We've recruited a list deadening volume of average footballers. We have been far too risk averse in the area of the draft we have been inhabiting.
 
Grahame said:
My worry is that we have a pretty good run with injuries next year and bounce back to say 10th. Then at the end of the next year the hierarchy will say 'we are heading in the right direction'. Then 2024-25 we end up 10th again or maybe even get into the finals - only to make up the numbers.
Better to be down lower on the ladder (with better draft picks) BUT make hard decisions that are more likely to see us seriously contending sooner rather than just finishing 7-10th for years.
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Thats my worry aswell. If we squeak our way to say 7 wins they will compare it to the 2 wins for this year and say the decision not to actually start rebuilding the list was justified and everything is going in the right direction. Then a proper collapse will come in 2024 and 2025.

The thing that will force change is money. If memberships fall off a cliff because the public don't buy their narrative that will force them to change. They clearly think if they can get to 6 - 8 wins next year they can sell that to us as we are on our way back to the top 4 and we will buy it and keep renewing our memberships. I know i won't buy it. But i don't if the average supporter will.
 

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I'm not worried about a bounce back next year, just about the make-up of the 22 to get there.

If we win 8-10 games with a young team that's a step in the right direction. If we're fielding an old team with 2500-3000 games experience each week and hovering in the bottom 6 then we're cooked.

We'll have something like 18-20 players 23 or under on the list next year. How many will get a game?
 
Scotland said:
I'm not worried about a bounce back next year, just about the make-up of the 22 to get there.

If we win 8-10 games with a young team that's a step in the right direction. If we're fielding an old team with 2500-3000 games experience each week and hovering in the bottom 6 then we're cooked.

We'll have something like 18-20 players 23 or under on the list next year. How many will get a game?
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I think that at this moment in time we would be well advised to use some of the cash we have in the bank to step over the soft cap and pay whatever the tax is for doing that and beef up our scouting team and try and find some young players on the fringes at other clubs that we think could give them more opportunity than they are getting where they are and maybe add some value to them and try and get them to put their hand up to come to us. The list situation is so awful that it requires emergency measures to try and improve it.
 
RookiePick said:
The list would be in much better shape. If we recruited some athletes. We've recruited 1 athlete in Petch and can't keep him on the park.

We've recruited a list deadening volume of average footballers. We have been far too risk averse in the area of the draft we have been inhabiting.
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Petch also has a problem in that he isn’t really any good.. he is another definition of a bloke now their 5 th year who got a 3 year contract extension based on not much as surprise surprise he is always injured…

No doubt in pre season will hear for the third year in a row how he is a standout in intraclubs and training drills because his pace stands out against all the plodders we have on our list.. it would be selwood v yarran on rinse and repeat.
 
Scotland said:
I'm not worried about a bounce back next year, just about the make-up of the 22 to get there.

If we win 8-10 games with a young team that's a step in the right direction. If we're fielding an old team with 2500-3000 games experience each week and hovering in the bottom 6 then we're cooked.

We'll have something like 18-20 players 23 or under on the list next year. How many will get a game?
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My issue isn’t so much with the older guys who are still almost up to it as the kids need mentors. (And we know that most of them won’t be around in 2-3 years.)
I’m probably more concerned playing middle tier guys who have shown nothing more than occasional flashes in their 50 to 100 games. Waterman, Petro, Rotham, Langdon, Witherden, Nelson, SPS etc. They should only get games if there are no kids for a specific position.
 
Grahame said:
My issue isn’t so much with the older guys who are still almost up to it as the kids need mentors. (And we know that most of them won’t be around in 2-3 years.)
I’m probably more concerned playing middle tier guys who have shown nothing more than occasional flashes in their 50 to 100 games. Waterman, Petro, Rotham, Langdon, Witherden, Nelson, SPS etc. They should only get games if there are no kids for a specific position.
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I think we can write off everyone in bold...apart from waterman who i think has 1 more year to prove himself.
 
My question is how do we know if these young guys can play or not? Most of them haven’t been played in their natural position at AFL level for more than ten minutes due to the credits crew getting rushed back in, despite being out of form or fitness. We’ve all seen how ONeill has improved when given the chance to play in the middle instead of a flank constantly.
I wanna see Clark, ONeill, Winder, Trew etc played in the middle repeatedly at afl level to see if they have enough skill and desire to make it. It’s what we should have been doing this year and given the old blokes a rest.
 

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Eaglemaniac said:
My question is how do we know if these young guys can play or not? Most of them haven’t been played in their natural position at AFL level for more than ten minutes due to the credits crew getting rushed back in, despite being out of form or fitness. We’ve all seen how ONeill has improved when given the chance to play in the middle instead of a flank constantly.
I wanna see Clark, ONeill, Winder, Trew etc played in the middle repeatedly at afl level to see if they have enough skill and desire to make it. It’s what we should have been doing this year and given the old blokes a rest.
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Agree completely. But to me there’s a difference in the ‘credits crew’ between those who have been champs and those who continue to get games on the basis of ‘potential’ even after 50-100 games.
 
Grahame said:
Agree completely. But to me there’s a difference in the ‘credits crew’ between those who have been champs and those who continue to get games on the basis of ‘potential’ even after 50-100 games.
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What about those who spud it up at WAFL level being gifted games in the AFL just to see if they can magically get gud at the higher level?
 

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