Society/Culture Feminism - Pt III

[Gralin]

That's why I think feminism should be purely about sex with no regard for gender. Gender equality is a different fight.

Also no, gender equality was a feminist idea

 

[Chief]

Ev I think I've showed that they are mostly the same.

 

[Gralin]

That's your point, and it seems Chief and Gralin agree.

My stance is that female rights are being highjacked by the trans movement. Females have every right to separate themselves from trans women based on biological differences that affect them. I would think they should include trans men in their fight too.

But they don't include trans men, s**t most of the GCs fighting for women's rights haven't said anything about Roe v Wade, because it's not actually about women's rights.

When the Proud Boys agree with your movement its a red flag I'd have thought

 

[CM86]

That's your point, and it seems Chief and Gralin agree.

My stance is that female rights are being highjacked by the trans movement. Females have every right to separate themselves from trans women based on biological differences that affect them. I would think they should include trans men in their fight too.

What do you mean, by "highjacked"?

Can you go into detail about why you think that, and what the reason behind it might be?

 

[Evolved1]

So all trans women are stronger than all women? That's obviously not true.

My friend's trans daughter who was quite tiny and went through transition with puberty blockers is in no way as strong as my own cis male son who is a year younger.

I think you understood my point.
I was speaking in generalities, and yes there will be differences especially with those who transitioned before puberty.

What are the differences? When you say "safety" I'm thinking safety from danger of assault etc. is that what you're talking about?

By safety, I mean
1. there are physiological differences which mean the average trans women is (on the balance of probablility) going to be stronger than the average adult cis woman.
2. trans women are more likely to be physically assaulted by bigots.

 

[Lethality]

That would be because of all the media saying its not inclusive from the people trying to not be inclusive

Maybe. They're not considered offensive terms so presumably they're used everywhere. Bette is focused on abortion rights so it's conceivable that she might interpret a term like "birthing people" a certain way right now

 

[Chief]

My stance is that female rights are being highjacked by the trans movement.

Is it really? Which people have been informing you about this issue?

 

[Evolved1]

What do you mean, by "highjacked"?

Can you go into detail about why you think that, and what the reason behind it might be?

Feminism used to be about female rights. By highjacked, I mean the definition has been broadened to include womens (ie trans) rights.

I have no idea as to the reasons why. Do you?

I'm not against the trans community at all, though some here would disagree. I'd just rather feminism be treated separately, and as I said...I include trans men under that banner.

 

[CM86]

The anti-trans community come out SCREAMING about how confusing it all is, and how hard it is to accept etc.

Then they use that as evidence that society will reject it.



Create a problem, then use that problem as evidence to support your position.

 

[CM86]

Feminism used to be about female rights. By highjacked, I mean the definition has been broadened to include womens (ie trans) rights.

I have no idea as to the reasons why. Do you?

I'm not against the trans community at all, though some here would disagree. I'd just rather feminism be treated separately, and as I said...I include trans men under that banner.

You saying it's been "highjacked", implies a reason. Intent.

What's the reason?

 

[Chief]

I think you understood my point.
I was speaking in generalities, and yes there will be differences especially with those who transitioned before puberty.

I understood your point, I just don't think it is at all valid.

By safety, I mean
1. there are physiological differences which mean the average trans women is (on the balance of probablility) going to be stronger than the average adult cis woman.
2. trans women are more likely to be physically assaulted by bigots.

1. Stronger than the average man?
2. So... ?

This seems like you're trying to really force a lot into some pretty insignificant differences that are often going to be as big as they are between individual cis males or cis females anyway.

It sounds like you're saying that all trans women are just butch blokes in a dress so they are not going to have any issues.

 

[Evolved1]

Is it really? Which people have been informing you about this issue?

That's based on views taken from social media. I don't encounter this stuff irl.

 

[Gralin]

Feminism used to be about female rights. By highjacked, I mean the definition has been broadened to include womens (ie trans) rights.

I have no idea as to the reasons why. Do you?

I'm not against the trans community at all, though some here would disagree. I'd just rather feminism be treated separately, and as I said...I include trans men under that banner.

Sex based rights....

Because women's rights isn't good enough because it doesn't exclude people you want to exclude.

This is again the whole problem with ehat you want to do. The term TERF is trans exclusionary radical femist/feminism.

So yeah you're lining up with the people who have a problem with the trans community.

Gender crits use sex based rights, a term they made up because its all about biological essentialism for them.

Maybe. They're not considered offensive terms so presumably they're used everywhere. Bette is focused on abortion rights so it's conceivable that she might interpret a term like "birthing people" a certain way right now

Funny how she's using the arguments of the people that aren't actually pro abortion now though

 

[Evolved1]

You saying it's been "highjacked", implies a reason. Intent.

What's the reason?

I don't know. I could guess, but I'd be putting my head on the guillotine here.

 

[Gralin]

That's based on views taken from social media. I don't encounter this stuff irl.

Your views are being informed by the GCs and other TERFs then because you're using their terms and arguments

 

[CM86]

I don't know. I could guess, but I'd be putting my head on the guillotine here.

Well... there it is, right?

Like, you know you don't have a solid reason for saying it. You know you don't have a solid argument to support any statement you make.

You just want to termite.

 

[Chief]

That's based on views taken from social media. I don't encounter this stuff irl.

Any people in particular?

 

[Evolved1]

Your views are being informed by the GCs and other TERFs then because you're using their terms and arguments

What does GC mean?

 

[CM86]

"I support feminism! I support it so much that I don't think they should support certain things."​

You don't support feminism, you want to restrict and control feminism...

"No I support feminism, I just don't want it hijacked by the non-women".​

You're the one attempting to hijack the movement.
You want to control what is and isn't feminism, and how it can and cannot be supported. You're trying to hijack feminism to reduce the rights of transsexuals, because you oppose transsexualism.

 

[Evolved1]

1. Stronger than the average man?

The average trans women is stronger than the average cis woman. It's obvious, no? They can defend themselves in a 1-1 fight with an adult male as much as I can.

2. So... ?

So, they need protection from bigots. Do you disagree?

This seems like you're trying to really force a lot into some pretty insignificant differences that are often going to be as big as they are between individual cis males or cis females anyway.

It sounds like you're saying that all trans women are just butch blokes in a dress so they are not going to have any issues.

It sounds like you didn't read my posts because I didn't post anything of the sort.

 

[Gralin]

What does GC mean?

Gender Critical.
Whether directly or indirectly you're getting your language and frame of reference from the people that actually want trans people to not exist.

It's not surprising, they get mainstream media platforms. Usually where they talk about being the victims of trans activists.

They won't write trans woman, they don't use trans is an adjective same as cis. They won't ever use cis at all, it's a slur to them. they will say biological woman and transwoman with no space because they don't want people thinking of trans women as women.

They talk about predators, big men, groomers, they talk about sex based rights, about being erased because they are trying to portray trans women as oppressors

The ****ed up part is that many of these people are no longer really feminsts at all, a lot of them started as feminists but they are now so consumed with destroying trans women that they've lost focus on everything else.

 

[CM86]

trans women They can defend themselves in a 1-1 fight with an adult male as much as I can.

You've so little understanding of this.

I'm sorry you've been taken advantage of by certain youtubers. I wish you'd spend more time looking into this issue.

 

[Evolved1]

"I support feminism! I support it so much that I don't think they should support certain things."​

You don't support feminism, you want to restrict and control feminism...

"No I support feminism, I just don't want it hijacked by the non-women".​

You're the one attempting to hijack the movement.
You want to control what is and isn't feminism, and how it can and cannot be supported. You're trying to hijack feminism to reduce the rights of transsexuals, because you oppose transsexualism.

Nope, I want no control. Give it to females.

Take a look in the mirror...It's you and the other men here who want to control feminism.

 

[Gralin]

Nope, I want no control. Give it to females.

Take a look in the mirror...It's you and the other men here who want to control feminism.

Not the other males?

 

[Evolved1]

Gender Critical.
Whether directly or indirectly you're getting your language and frame of reference from the people that actually want trans people to not exist.

It's not surprising, they get mainstream media platforms. Usually where they talk about being the victims of trans activists.

They won't write trans woman, they don't use trans is an adjective same as cis. They won't ever use cis at all, it's a slur to them. they will say biological woman and transwoman with no space because they don't want people thinking of trans women as women.

They talk about predators, big men, groomers, they talk about sex based rights, about being erased because they are trying to portray trans women as oppressors

The ducked up part is that many of these people are no longer really feminsts at all, a lot of them started as feminists but they are now so consumed with destroying trans women that they've lost focus on everything else.

Why do you oppose sex based rights?