Health Fibromyalgia

[woopedazz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

 

[aussierulesrules]

How about turning the mirror on yourself, if you have the guts? I dare you. Or was that why you posted that link, to tell us a little about yourself?

Hey, what do you know, I can play that game too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_complex

And look, I can also make something up and then make it look like someone else said it, by "quoting" something they have said in one of their posts, deleting what they actually said, writing what I want it to look like they said and then submitting it, so it looks like one of their "quotes" (like in your post above (post no.21, on this page):

So what if I have sex with goats, I know everything and would rather someone stayed unwell than have their condition cured or improved by doing something that someone who isn't a doctor has told them to do. I'm in it to win and look good, helping someone else would just be a bonus!

But I'm done with the games and won't be conversing with you anymore on here, as I have better things to do with my time than waste it on someone like you, who is, as I suggested earlier, completely full of themselves and who thinks they know more about a subject through something they've read in a book, than someone who has lived it for a couple of years and could write a book on it.

You can call me what you will. It won't make you feel any better about yourself.

 

[Messenger]

Did you also "note" how he twisted all I said and quoted me as having said things that I never said at all? And when I challenged him on those things that he then sunk to an all new low, getting abusive? Or is that OK? Like his last "quote" of mine that I certainly didn't say.
Or should we not take a serious discussion seriously just because it's on a "sports forum"? If he doesn't want to get involved in a serious discussion, he doesn't have to. There are probably hundreds of other threads he could go and get involved in.
But for someone that is reaching out for help, it might be their best option, especially if they can find someone who has been through the same sort of thing they're going through, if not exactly what they're going through. If this was something that the medical fraternity understood well and had treatments for, then there would be no problem, they would have been fixed years ago, as they've all been there and tried to get help from them, but when they're unable to help, they have to look elsewhere. If they can get some help here, who cares? Surely if they can get help anywhere that is a good thing? Or would you rather they just keep on suffering, so that someone like him can keep shooting his mouth off on any forum he likes?
If he doesn't want to take a discussion seriously, there are surely other threads he could go to that are more appropriate to take the piss and so on, than a topic like this. Or maybe he thinks going through hell for 8 years is nothing to take seriously. Wow that is so much fun. Classy.

If you can't deal with a few barbs, then you're in the wrong place. I'm well versed in woopedazz's posting. He has posted an opinion you happen to disagree with and find hurtful. It doesnt invalidate his opinion.

 

[Big Jono]

Thaks for your informative posts aussierulesrules, im going to get her to try a few things soon. At the moment regular exercise is working well to relieve and prevent the pain.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Thanks for your informative posts aussierulesrules, im going to get her to try a few things soon. At the moment regular exercise is working well to relieve and prevent the pain.

You're most welcome Jono. Great to hear that she's found something that is helping and I hope it continues. Hopefully that helps her to realise that there are things she can do that will improve the situation and that that gives her the impetus to look into what else she can do to give her body the best chance to be completely rid of it and stay rid of it.

In my experience of this sort of thing, as I said, there's no "magic bullet", that will work for everyone (except I guess for "doing what it takes"!). It's just a matter of becoming self-responsible and really learning how to look after yourself (something I certainly didn't know before I got unwell- you may think you know, but you really may have little idea, especially with regards to things like diet, which can make a MASSIVE difference to many problems, as I found) and when you get yourself in balance and do what your body needs you to do, it will respond in kind and reward you by giving you your energy back, or relieving you of the fibro pain, CFS, asthma (in my case), or whatever. For some it might just be one thing they need to tweak that does the trick, while for someone else they may need a total "overhaul" of many areas, which I certainly did.

That is where different approaches like naturopathy, Traditional Chinese Medicine, Ayurveda (which has reportedly been practised in India for around 5000 years), etc, can help so much, as they are more of a holistic approach and they will take the time (probably hour long sessions to start) to really look into you as a whole, not just deal with the symptoms and they basically aim to get your body into the sort of shape it needs to be in to be able to beat things like this on its own, which it's more than capable of doing, in my experience and the experience of others. (In TCM, for instance, whoever was responsible for the health of a particular village apparently wouldn't get paid unless everyone in the village was healthy. (As opposed to only getting paid when treating someone who is not well). So over the past few thousand years, it's fair to say they've learned a lot about the human body and what it needs to stay in balance and healthy and strong and able to fight off diseases and so on. Diet of course plays a huge part, but it's not just what to eat, but how to eat, when to eat, how much to eat, etc and they also will most likely work to strengthen your digestion, with things like digestion stimulating herbs, acupuncture and teaching you how to relax (which relaxes your digestion- try eating when you're tense or really stressed- which those with Fybro or CFS most likely are- and you'll see why that is important). There's not much point in eating good foods if your digestion isn't strong enough to digest them well and mine was incredibly weak when I first started getting TCM treatment. But over time they worked to strengthen it and when I put together all the other things I realised I needed to do, my digestion started to really flow and then the energy started to finally flow again.

I'd say you've got to really want to do it, though, and that is probably why I had so much success. In the beginning I was incredibly sceptical of all those sort of things and like most in this part of the world at the time, thought they were "hocus-pocus" or whatever, but I was just stupid, ignorant and young and once I started trying some of those things (because it looked like they were my only choice left) I soon realised they could work fantastically well for all sorts of things (which would be why some of them are starting to become much more widely used now- positive word of mouth is starting to dispel the myths). So once I started to see some positive health benefits (albeit not to the relentless exhaustion/fatigue, in the beginning) I basically threw myself full-on into whatever it was I believed might help me from then on, doing what they wanted me to do, pretty much to the letter. That enabled me to see if what they were advocating worked for me and if it didn't I would move on to the next thing, until I found the various things that helped me out and when I put all the things that worked, or helped, together (it was pretty much bits and pieces of various approaches) the results were brilliant and better than I ever hoped they would be, as I not only became free of the horrible relentless physical and mental fatigue/exhaustion, but felt better than I had ever remembered feeling before in my life.

Getting someone to take that first step can be difficult, though (as it was for me, I basically just took that first step in that direction to get Mum to stop nagging me to try it- thanks Mum) and a good place to start may be to find someone who practices Western Medicine and one or two of the other approaches (for me, the first one practised WM and Naturopathy and I remembered yesterday that the one I saw for a few weeks at the very end (in Caloundra, when it all turned around) practised WM, TCM (the main reason I went to him) and Naturopathy, from memory) and they can be a good way to ease into it. They can hit these things from multiple angles and with multiple "tools" and if they're as good as the ones I saw, will be able to tell which approach (or combination of approaches) will help you the most.

There's not much your body can't deal with if you consistently give it what it needs (working/finding out exactly what it needs can take a bit of time though, as there's no such thing as "one size fits all", in my experience). You've got to work out what works for you, not the next guy, or the majority and that is one of the major things I eventually learned from it all, with a lot of help. Try to fight it or mistreat it, on the other hand, and trouble will ensue. You've got to work with it, not against it, if you want it to work well.

All the best!

(PS- I've also just added quite a bit more to what I wrote to External Inputs- (post 18 in this thread, above) so there may be some more in there now that may help.)

 

[External Inputs]

Thanks for the informative posts aussierules, I appreciate you took the time. I've had a bit of a downturn over the last few days, so haven't felt up to replying.

You're right about the perfectionism, and in my case, workaholism, which snuck up on me over quite a few years. I'm sure it played a part in my troubles, and have read since, that people like me seem more likely to come down with this sort of complaint. Of course, at the time you think you're doing the right thing, and are tough enough to handle it. Also, having your neck in the noose financially makes slowing down an unpalatable prospect. My situation was probably more complex than that, but mentally, I did drive myself very hard, and although I grew to hate working (all addicts hate their addiction), it's the socially acceptable addiction, which often draws praise rather than condemnation. That, along with no easy way out of the situation I'd gotten myself into, that I could see anyway, laid the groundwork for the health issues.

I had a bad gut infection (campylobacter) and three months later I started to feel a bit tired. Slowing down didn't help, but it was only minor, and understandable I thought, considering how hard I'd been working. I then had a long term relationship break-up and slowly started feeling worse, went to the doctors and was diagnosed with very low iron. That was the beginning of the long and torturous path.

I don't think I have FM, I used to get sore muscles and joints after eating, but that's dissipated over time and I've never had the pain I've read FM sufferers have to deal with. I used to exercise regularly before I got sick, and continued with that, despite it taking much of the meagre energy levels I had, because I'd been told it often helped CFS. It didn't in my case, despite continuing with it for some time, and often feeling like it was going to kill me.

Although I used to be a worrier, and quite stressed, once I was sick, I couldn't find the energy to bother with any of that. I couldn't even get angry, just too weak and tired to be bothered. The whole meditation thing you mentioned had been suggested to me before, by someone who I'd met during my 4 hour IV chelation sessions for my lead and mercury levels. A combination of me still being convinced I had a physical problem, and meditation seemed more a mental thing to me at the time, and the fact the the person making the suggestion was a real pain in the arse who never stopped banging on about something or other (even the nurses would do some guarded eye rolling), lead me to disregard the whole thing.

Since then though, I've thought, even though I don't feel mentally stressed at all, (I have an income, despite not working, and the business, the main source of stress is gone), it's obvious there's a lot of physical stress still going on. Maybe the meditation will help, and since I don't have a plan B after what I'm trying now, I may as well give it a try. There's nothing to lose at this point.

One frustrating issue (out of many) is that previously, despite the overwork, I've always been healthy, and used to exercise regularly. I watched what I ate religiously, was a vegetarian for many years, hardly ever drank alcohol, took supplements for anything I might be missing out on, and yet still it wasn't enough to avoid this problem. I know of others who have a similar story, and it's hard not to feel cheated when you see mates who eat anything, drink too much, are way overweight, and still can get up and go to work, while I can't.

Another frustrating issue is the expectation that doctors will have the answers, which, if you've not had many health problems, seems fairly reasonable. It's very disillusioning to present to so many doctors and specialists, do everything they recommend, no matter how difficult, pay an eventual mountain of money, and still have no resolution. Eventually they shrug their shoulders and say there's nothing more they can do for you, so you're just cast adrift to somehow draw your own conclusions from self analysis, despite not being well enough to do so much of the time.

Anyway, thanks again aussierules, no one truly understands like someone who's been through it.


.

 

[fairdinkum]

Honestly expected there to be more sufferers (and friends/relatives/etc) out there in the bigfooty universe than is evident in this thread.

Pleasant surprise, really.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Thanks for the informative posts aussierules, I appreciate you took the time. I've had a bit of a downturn over the last few days, so haven't felt up to replying.

You're right about the perfectionism, and in my case, workaholism, which snuck up on me over quite a few years. I'm sure it played a part in my troubles, and have read since, that people like me seem more likely to come down with this sort of complaint. Of course, at the time you think you're doing the right thing, and are tough enough to handle it. Also, having your neck in the noose financially makes slowing down an unpalatable prospect. My situation was probably more complex than that, but mentally, I did drive myself very hard, and although I grew to hate working (all addicts hate their addiction), it's the socially acceptable addiction, which often draws praise rather than condemnation. That, along with no easy way out of the situation I'd gotten myself into, that I could see anyway, laid the groundwork for the health issues.

I had a bad gut infection (campylobacter) and three months later I started to feel a bit tired. Slowing down didn't help, but it was only minor, and understandable I thought, considering how hard I'd been working. I then had a long term relationship break-up and slowly started feeling worse, went to the doctors and was diagnosed with very low iron. That was the beginning of the long and torturous path.

I don't think I have FM, I used to get sore muscles and joints after eating, but that's dissipated over time and I've never had the pain I've read FM sufferers have to deal with. I used to exercise regularly before I got sick, and continued with that, despite it taking much of the meagre energy levels I had, because I'd been told it often helped CFS. It didn't in my case, despite continuing with it for some time, and often feeling like it was going to kill me.

Although I used to be a worrier, and quite stressed, once I was sick, I couldn't find the energy to bother with any of that. I couldn't even get angry, just too weak and tired to be bothered. The whole meditation thing you mentioned had been suggested to me before, by someone who I'd met during my 4 hour IV chelation sessions for my lead and mercury levels. A combination of me still being convinced I had a physical problem, and meditation seemed more a mental thing to me at the time, and the fact the the person making the suggestion was a real pain in the arse who never stopped banging on about something or other (even the nurses would do some guarded eye rolling), lead me to disregard the whole thing.

Since then though, I've thought, even though I don't feel mentally stressed at all, (I have an income, despite not working, and the business, the main source of stress is gone), it's obvious there's a lot of physical stress still going on. Maybe the meditation will help, and since I don't have a plan B after what I'm trying now, I may as well give it a try. There's nothing to lose at this point.

One frustrating issue (out of many) is that previously, despite the overwork, I've always been healthy, and used to exercise regularly. I watched what I ate religiously, was a vegetarian for many years, hardly ever drank alcohol, took supplements for anything I might be missing out on, and yet still it wasn't enough to avoid this problem. I know of others who have a similar story, and it's hard not to feel cheated when you see mates who eat anything, drink too much, are way overweight, and still can get up and go to work, while I can't.

Another frustrating issue is the expectation that doctors will have the answers, which, if you've not had many health problems, seems fairly reasonable. It's very disillusioning to present to so many doctors and specialists, do everything they recommend, no matter how difficult, pay an eventual mountain of money, and still have no resolution. Eventually they shrug their shoulders and say there's nothing more they can do for you, so you're just cast adrift to somehow draw your own conclusions from self analysis, despite not being well enough to do so much of the time.

Anyway, thanks again aussierules, no one truly understands like someone who's been through it.


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Hey there EI, you're most welcome and sorry for the tardy reply, I hope you've picked up a bit (or a lot!) in the meantime.
Sounds like a similar thing that as you said "laid the groundwork for the health issues" to what I went through. For me, it was school that I had begun to really hate with a passion and it probably began to really suck the energy out of me (as did the terrible diet (for me), the lack of sleep and other things that weren't beneficial to my health).
I did really well there, but as I think I said, would really push myself to do well (with help from others, who also drove me hard) and I wasn't enjoying it one bit any more, or doing it in a healthy way. As I realised later (when the condition gave me the chance to take stock of my life and where I was heading), I was just sort of heading down a path that I thought was what I wanted, but I realised I was more just following the herd, or doing what others wanted me to do, or taking the "safe" path, rather than doing what I felt passionate about and what I found fulfilling and what made me happy.
When you're in that sort of emotional/mental/spiritual state, where you're hating what you're doing and not exactly looking forward to the path you're heading down, it pretty clearly makes your body more susceptible to any viruses, infections, chemical reactions, etc that it may come into contact with. Your defences are definitely down, to a degree, as you will have less chance of fighting things like that when a part of you doesn't really care if you beat them or not.
That's why I was saying how important it is for you to make sure you find things you can still do, or experience, that really make you happy and give your life meaning, as it is one hell of an uphill battle to get out of the sort of situation you're in without that.
For me that came when I went up north with Mum. I had lost so much weight, due to not having the energy to do much at all (which in turn greatly reduced my appetite) that I realised I wasn't going to survive the winter in Melbourne, as I was feeling the cold so badly (I think it was only March when I realised that, as I was going to bed, then, with the heater on and multiple doonas and winter PJ's and was still cold and it wasn't even close to the cold time of the year). I knew that if I was feeling the cold so badly then, there was no way I was going to survive the winter, so we packed up the car and started driving north, not sure where we would go, or end up, or what we would do, but I knew I just had to go to a warmer place, so we packed up the car and took off. Basically just taking it a day at a time and still looking for answers anywhere we thought that could help, along the way. (Mum did a brilliant job, because she was in her late 50's at the time and not in great health herself. )
One thing it did do, though, was really give me something to look forward to every day, as I love to travel and explore and take photo's, so even though I had so little energy (only enough to walk maybe 50 or so metres at a time, before I was completely exhausted) I was probably happier and more "alive" than I had been since the whole thing started and once I eventually got the physical things in place, a couple of months later, on the Sunshine Coast, I'm sure that helped to turn the whole thing around.
Like you, I was aware that it wasn't a mental thing and for the most part of it I wasn't really that stressed about most things either, because, for one thing, I was no longer on the path I hated anymore (I had no intentions of returning to school, to complete year 12, by that stage), so I pretty much felt I had been "saved" from a life that was going to suck, and a lot of the other major health issues I'd previously had (like the asthma, chronic catarrh, acne and lack of sleep) had been cleared up by the changes in diet and so on I'd undertaken, but the meditation, as I said, was also largely about physical relaxation, as well as resting the mind.
The method I learned is one where you go through each part of your body and first tense it up and then relax it and then you move onto the next area and do the same thing, until you're in a complete state of physical relaxation. You could be amazed at how many parts of your body can be tense without you even realising it. Eventually you get to your head and the goal is to then really relax your mind and quieten it down, all the while doing deep breathing, which is great for you. This gives your mind and body a great break and allows it to really rejuvenate and heal and conserves energy. And even though you might not be stressed about work and so on, you can bet that you will have some sort of stress about your physical situation and the fact that nothing you've done so far has gotten you free of it. This will most likely help to relieve you of that stress and help you to just focus on what it is you need to do.
As I said, for me, the meditation really helped to quieten my mind, which then helped me to see things more clearly and to realise what had worked for me and what hadn't and what it was I needed to do to get my energy and so on back.
Like a lot of the things I tried along the way, in isolation it probably wouldn't have made any noticeable difference to my overall energy levels, if just done on its own, but when combined with all the other things that worked for me over a 2.5 year period, it was one of the pieces of the puzzle that really helped enormously, when combined with the others.

I'm not at all surprised that you trying to keep exercising like you were, once this started, didn't help, as your body was probably running on empty by that stage, so trying to push it further was about the last thing it needed, unfortunately. It would have just drained any reserves you had left and left you depleted. Like asking someone who has just run a marathon and is exhausted to go off and immediately run another one. If they do manage to do it, they're going to pay the price for a long time to come. For someone in your state, that gets multiplied, as you have a much lower energy base to begin with. What it hopefully did, though, was teach you a lesson of what not to do, which means that doing the opposite in that situation will almost certainly work. If you're that tired, rest. You've almost certainly deserved it and you simply NEED IT. You just have to trust that and go with it. The more you try to fight it, the more worn out you become. It's like someone who is learning to walk again, after an accident, stroke, or whatever. You need to start with baby steps, etc and build things up gradually again.
One major thing the whole experience taught me was to learn to listen to my body and not to try and boss it around, because, like a car, it needs what it needs and if you don't give it what it needs, or you do things to it that are bad for it, it's going to "break down", sooner or later. If you work with it, though, it can do amazing things.

It's obviously hard for me to be able to say what the missing link(s) in your puzzle may be, as I'm not seeing what you're doing every day, but through all the TCM I had, I learned very clearly that balance is the key. When you're in balance and doing what you need to do your body is going to work well, all things being equal. If anything is out of balance, or you're not doing what you need to do, then things are not going to work at their optimum and you're going to be less of a chance to get well.
In my case, it was also getting right back to basics that did the trick. Like in sport, when someone is way out of form, the best solution is usually just to strip everything bare and get right back to basics and pretty much start again, or get back to the point where it's easy again and then progress from there, once you're ready and feel you've got it again. As I said earlier, baby steps, if necessary.
In my case and it sounds like yours as well, I was looking for a magic bullet and so were some of those who were treating me, looking for complex answers to what turned out to be a fairly simple question.
At the end of the day, you're lacking energy, big time and need to get it back, or get more, from now on. That's the bottom line.

So what gives you energy? Those are the things you need to do. What takes away your energy? They are things you need to avoid as much as possible.

Examples of things that give you energy: Eating food that is good for YOU (experimentation may be necessary to find out what truly works for you and then finding a healthy balance within that), digesting that food really well (the easier the food is to digest the less work your body has to do), drinking enough water and other healthy liquids, getting enough exercise for you at the point you're at right now (even if that's just something like walking to the letterbox. Tomorrow you may be able to go a little further.). Getting enough sleep. Loving your life and looking forward to each day, living in the moment, etc.

Examples of things that take away your energy: Eating too much (for what you're able to handle right now). Eating too little. Exercising too much. Exercising too little. Sleeping too much. Sleeping too little. Drinking too much. Drinking too little. (BALANCE is the key). Doing any of these things at times when it's not appropriate. Doing things you really dislike, or don't believe in. Stress. Negative environmental factors, etc.

The more of the former you can do and the less of the latter, the greater the chances of your condition improving and you getting your life back. Again, it may require some experimenting and taking some chances. And trust your gut/intuition. It will lead you where you need to go, if you let it.

It may even pay you to ask anyone that is seeing you on a daily basis (if there is anyone, especially if they live with you) what they think may be out of whack in what you're doing on a daily basis. They may not have any medical training, or whatever, but maybe they've observed something, that those who have treated you aren't aware of, and may have a gut feeling that it could make a positive difference to your health and energy. The key that unlocks the door to your energy may come from a place you least expect it.

 

[Mooster7]

I believe it's a real condition but very rare. So rare that I'm convinced that 99% of the people diagnosed with it don't have it. They're just nuts. As proof I offer 2 pieces of worthless evidence:

My brother's wife
and this crazy lesbian I work with.

Both absolute loony. My brother's wife is a nurse and seeking some strange sort of Chinese treatment where they stab her with needles and make her smell things burning in a bowl. The crazy lesbian is a paramedic and is seeking relief through witchcraft. Her treatment involves being stabbed with pointy things and smelling pieces of exotic tree bark burning in a bowl.

Neither has shown any sign of improvement from either fibromyalgia or their annoying, persistent insanity.

Off topic, but are there any Chinese witches?

 

[JPA_L 27]

I know man who use to be a drummer in my band who claims to have this disease. To me he is just complete sham.

For on this man, can play drums intensely for 3 hours yet. If you had a disease like Fybro you wouldn't be able to do that. To me he is just a hypochondriac and lazy as well.

His mother originally had it so I believe he got the idea from their. The fact that he constantly feels sick and believes it because of his condition is stupid as he constantly drinks and smoke. That is why he feels sick not becuase of his made up condition.

Overall, he is nut job who needs to support budging off welfare, who needs to wake up and smell the roses.

 

[fairdinkum]

I know man who use to be a drummer in my band who claims to have this disease. To me he is just complete sham.

For on this man, can play drums intensely for 3 hours yet. If you had a disease like Fybro you wouldn't be able to do that. To me he is just a hypochondriac and lazy as well.

His mother originally had it so I believe he got the idea from their. The fact that he constantly feels sick and believes it because of his condition is stupid as he constantly drinks and smoke. That is why he feels sick not becuase of his made up condition.

Overall, he is nut job who needs to support budging off welfare, who needs to wake up and smell the roses.

Do you also believe dyslexia is a 'made up condition'?

 

[woopedazz]

Do you also believe dyslexia is a 'made up condition'?

No, because it exists and there is evidence for it.

'That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.'

 

[fairdinkum]

Recently got to thinking about this topic again. Looking back, it seems the thread was somewhat dragged down by excessive posts from one or two users.

Anybody have any experiences or insights to share?

My fiance was diagnosed with fibro early last year, shes 28. I am a bit offended at the suggestion it is all in her head.

She gets debilitating pain in all her joints and limbs with no rhyme or reason (aside from it happens more when the weather changes quickly or goes to extremes) and it could come and go for the rest of her life.

When she has it she is miserable as she cant do anything apart from lie down and try to take her mind off it, she has stopped taking the medically prescribed drugs for it as their effectiveness was waning and the side effects were pretty poor. Now im currently trying to get her to go to a naturopath to find some long term natural management strategies for it.

Has anyone else gone down this path? Any results, good or bad?

If you are still posting on this site, may I ask how things have gone for her since?

 

[woopedazz]

I probably came on too strong looking back.