Finals Update

[Graeme Tuplin]

Well the finals are done and dusted and the Mad Mondays have commenced.

We have been very pleased with the finals in the valley this year as have been the supporters who have voted with their feet. Early stage attendances across the total finals are up just on 20%.

We have received fantastic media coverage which was topped off by the channel 31 showing of the Div 2 GF.

Just wanted to thank all the clubs that hosted finals and all the club members , volunteers that helped on the days. Well done to Phil Martin , Trevor Spicer and all at Woori with the 2 GF's. Not easy hosting and playing but well done.

We need to start planning for next year. Happy to get any feedback postive or negative about how your saw things during the year and also finals or things that you may like to see happen.

Lets use this forum to continue to make the Valley the place to be for footy and netball.

Graeme Tuplin
President YVMDFNL

 

[Red Hot Tip]

"Happy to get any feedback positive or negative about how your saw things during the year and also finals or things that you may like to see happen. Let’s use this forum to continue to make the Valley the place to be for footy and netball."

Interesting post Graeme. I took it from your last very un professional response with the personal insults that you were only interested in people saying nice things.

I think it is fantastic that you participate in the comp forum and I also think is demonstrates a 'president of the people' leadership style. However the moment someone has a difference of opinion with you - you resorted to cheap insults.

I will try again. I think the standard of umpiring is well below what should be expected in Div 1 football of any comp. If the league wants to block their ears and keep telling themselves that it is in a good state then that is your right. A good friend of mine is involved with running the EFL umpires. It is a well known fact with them that our best umpires (previous grand final umpires) are only worthy of 4th Div games in the EFL.

My point is, how do we attract better umpires into this competition. Can we increase their pay and charge clubs more? Can we offer educational courses with the AFL for free to any umpire in our comp? I am not sure of the solution but we need to work harder to entice the best possible people.

As for your offer to be involved with the umpires come pre season - well what a fine chestnut that is. If I wanted to be an umpire I would have chosen to be one. I didn't. I choose to be involved with a football club and get a lot of enjoyment from it as I am sure umpires do with umpiring.

I find it very frustrating; the way people hide behind telling it exactly as it is, so as not to upset someone. This is a forum for discussion GOOD and BAD. If you read back through the last 1000 posts you will see that negative aspects of clubs/administrators/players/coaches/supporters etc are all discuss under the banner of 'free speech and opinion'. Why should the umpires be any different?

As you have requested Graeme that people participate in discussion, I only hope that this time you can participate in a more professional and mature manner.

 

[Accurate One]

James Langmaid,who I believe was a Yarra Valley umpire for quite a few years prior to this season, was emergency umpire for the EFL Division 1 GF last Saturday.

 

[Graeme Tuplin]

"Happy to get any feedback positive or negative about how your saw things during the year and also finals or things that you may like to see happen. Let’s use this forum to continue to make the Valley the place to be for footy and netball."

Interesting post Graeme. I took it from your last very un professional response with the personal insults that you were only interested in people saying nice things.

I think it is fantastic that you participate in the comp forum and I also think is demonstrates a 'president of the people' leadership style. However the moment someone has a difference of opinion with you - you resorted to cheap insults.

[ [/FONT][/COLOR]

RHT fair call, might have been a bit over the top with the "Tool comment" but it comes out of frustration with comments like "You must be joking local.... I have never seen a lower standard of umpiring in my life. The year has been a disgrace. It is the one thing that is holding this league back. I can tell you that umpires in other comps see this league as the very bottom of the scale. We need to do something to attract better umpires. More pay? Improved education? Something...... " these are not comments that would give the umpire's much encouragement. The facts are we appointed an ex EFL div 1 umpire to head our umpires. Each week they go through different umpiring situations on video as a means of upskilling the umpires. We are most happy with Dom and John. I would like to know how you base your comment "the umpiring is well below what should be expected in Div 1 of any competition"What is this based on?. Your comment about our ex GF umpire only good enough to do Div 4, there could be plenty of things that have happened to them that is effecting their umpiring its a bit rough to broadbrush everyone with this comment and imply the EFL is that far in front of our umpires. Increased pays means increased costs to clubs this is a problem.

As you have been with a club you will know that gates use to cover footies and umpire for the day. This is not the case anymore and as we get more YV umpires to do all games you will find that gates probably wont cover these costs which would put extra stress on clubs to generate additional income streams.

The pay rates are set by VCFL and are considered preatty attractive.

My chestnut as you put it about coming to training was not a flippant comment. I really mean it. I would think that guys who have played footy would make great umpires, but we get very little take up from ex players. My own thoughts is that this is a great opportunity and probably needs to be looked at.

Maybe we could spend money on educating the players the benefit of still keeping involved after they have stopped playing.

Also I can make these comments because I trained with the umpire for 6 weeks to find out how things are run and how they go about their business.

I can tell you its organised and structured all aimed at improving the umpires across the board.

I dont have any problem with anyone having a different opinion to me my only challenge would be dont tell me the problem but tell me the solution, because thats whats its all about for me to make the Valley the best place to be for everyone .

Cheers
Graeme Tuplin

 

[Monniehawk]

James Langmaid,who I believe was a Yarra Valley umpire for quite a few years prior to this season, was emergency umpire for the EFL Division 1 GF last Saturday.

Red Hot Tip and Tuppo, I think it was not only the content but the tone of the posts that was astray from the start, and it led to some hubris from both parties. Comments were a bit extreme and only polarised the viewpoints. Your last posts look more conciliatory, so I guess we can discuss it a bit more more objectively.
It is easy to assign blame to a third party - we call them "scapegoats". It is a natural reflex, as Catpower's wayward post also seems to indicate, but when I weigh the relative standards of play against the standard of officiation, they seem pretty much on a par to me. Certainly, I have witnessed worse in the other leagues I follow.
The Forum is a place to air views, but I hope there is a sense of responsibility to promote our footy and to do it fairly, rather than just venting the spleen. Some posters choose humor. Spite, name-calling and extreme statements are counter-productive as well as being embarrassing. I just wonder how many youngsters have been inspired to take up the whistle as a result of some recent comments on here.
Tuppo is right to defend the umps (I admire the motives - just without the personal references next time, Joey!). As he pointed out, they are very well-prepared: far better than the average supporter thinks. At times I get angry and frustrated at the umps during a game, but I am aware of my own prejudices and try to remember that their task is a 'no win' for them. They do make errors (Whoa! revelation time!), but far less than we imagine. 10 minutes listening to a footy crowd is an education in logic dismembered by bias! One could get the impression that umpires are actually a separate species, genetically predisposed to seeing the exact opposite of what actually happened! Having said that, I also observe that clubs are much better at showing respect for the umpires than they were in the past. So is the average supporter, which makes the sudden rash of criticism even more unpalatable to me.
As for taking up the whistle, I too chose not to. I did one half of an u16 practice match about 17 years ago and it scarred me for life - not to mention the damage to a few aspiring footballers! Umpires have a set of skills that escaped me. Joey makes the valid request that posters offer credible solutions along with their criticisms. Not too much to ask.
Yellow cards to both, now let's get on with the game.

 

[Graeme Tuplin]

Red Hot Tip and Tuppo, I think it was not only the content but the tone of the posts that was astray from the start, and it led to some hubris from both parties. Comments were a bit extreme and only polarised the viewpoints. Your last posts look more conciliatory, so I guess we can discuss it a bit more more objectively......(rest of quote removed for space reasons only - RH)

I will take set penalty and serve my 15 minutes. Agree lets get on with it because we have had a cracking year of football and netball topped off with 2 great GF days which really is what we all want. So I go back to my original post. Lets hear from you about the things that worked and didnt and the things we can get better at.

Graeme Tuplin

 

[rip it up]

Out of curiosity, why was the division 1 granny played on a sunday. In my opinion the Division 1 Grand Final is the show piece of the league and should be played on a Saturday.

That aside I thought the Finals series were great with some great games. Thought Woori were on a charge to victory in the 3rd quarter but spent all petrol in the comeback and couldn't take in on. As for divvy 2 great game and day for the league.

 

[ManInWhite]

Possibly to avoid clashing with EFL GF? I know quite a few people who had an interest in both comps and if both were played same day, they would have only been able to go to Eastern - they ended up going to both.

 

[localfootyguru]

Well done to all at the league on the finals series. The GF's were both great days and certainly both divisions generated some great publicity for the league.

A couple of thoughts:

Keep using Alexandra as a finals venue - great ground and great hospitality. Lets hope Yea may be interested in 2010.

Car parking at Woori is an issue with big crowds - best ground to host finals due to its central location though and good atmosphere. The change rooms are average though and could use a spruce up.

Catering was good on both GF days as well at other clubs hosting finals.

Umpiring has improved significantly from my observations this year and we even had proper umpires in Reserves games which is a great step forward. Heard on the grapevine that "Man in White" will be moving over from the EFL in 2010 as well as a couple of others due to disharmony in the EFL. The EFL umpiring is no better then ours at all!

Kepp playing the 1 Division GF on the day that the EFL 1st division GF is not on as it certainly adds to crowd numbers as people in the area follow both leagues.

Well done to the league on their efforts in 2010 and to you Graeme by posting on here. The only league President that does so which is great!

 

[localfootyguru]

One final piece of feedback.

Keep developing Netball! It has been a massive addition to our league!!! The numbers watching the GF's have been huge and it certainly has helped attract many new people to our clubs and league as a whole.

Some clubs have really embraced the concept and should be applauded!

 

[Graeme Tuplin]

Out of curiosity, why was the division 1 granny played on a sunday. In my opinion the Division 1 Grand Final is the show piece of the league and should be played on a Saturday.

That aside I thought the Finals series were great with some great games. Thought Woori were on a charge to victory in the 3rd quarter but spent all petrol in the comeback and couldn't take in on. As for divvy 2 great game and day for the league.

Rip it up. 2 reasons for the Sunday GF and trying something new

1) Clubs playing in preliminary final on Sunday had only 6 days to come up if GF was played on Saturday. That is the feedback we received from clubs.

2) EFL GF was on Saturday and we thought we may drag some people who would like to see both GF's which proved to be the case.

Interestingly, we have improved our working relationship with the EFL this year which lead to the new certificiate 4 sports administration course (this was the EFL course and they allowed us to participate) and last week they advertised our Grand Final on their webpage which was fantastic.

GT

 

[Red Hot Tip]

Well umpired Monniehawk....ha ha.

Points taken Graeme. My only solution(other than $$$ incentives) is perhaps the clubs could fill out some form of assessment on the umpires at the end of each game like they do in other leagues. I guess this way the umpire advisor would then have something to evaluate each umpire on as, correct me if I am wrong, our umpire advisor actually umpires most games(due to necessity) and couldn't possibly get around to see how the umpires are going. Not foolproof but better than nothing at all.

Localfootyguru, I have received some PM's from ManinWhite who has confirmed what you suggested. Looks like we may get him (a very experienced umpire from what I have read) and a few others back to YV. Great news as just like footy clubs depth is a pure luxury.

Finally Graeme, I thought overall the YV had a fantastic year. Congratulations to you and your committee. I thought the interleague was a real highlight as was the final series in both divisions.

 

[ManInWhite]

Localfootyguru, I have received some PM's from ManinWhite who has confirmed what you suggested. Looks like we may get him (a very experienced umpire from what I have read) and a few others back to YV. Great news as just like footy clubs depth is a pure luxury.

I can't speak for others so not worth getting too excited yet. And remember, "experienced" doesn't equate to brilliance - it just means I've been around for ages and been everywhere!!!

 

[Monniehawk]

Well umpired Monniehawk....ha ha.

Loved the passion from you both! And thanks to Rusty. A well run and valuable forum. Some good points have come out of the year...

• The forum is a good communication tool for the Board as well as 'grass roots' fans. Appreciate your input, Tuppo and there are some very good posters who have entertained and informed.
• The Alex factor has been a revelation and worth the travel to a quality finals venue.
• Finals were very well run. Congrats to all involved.
• Yes, the Netball has been a terrific fillip for the league. (Just tell Billy H that 1/. He shouldn't claim credit - it was the VCFL initiative 2/. I did not try to stop it when President, as he tries to report on radio!)
• Umpiring is "better" because the instruction is back on the mark. We lost direction by over-umpiring for a little while.
• Sunday GF did concern me because I didn't understand why, but it appears to have worked.
• Let's hope that from now on the Interleague game gets the attention from players, clubs and fans that it deserves.
• Silvan gone - are Upwey the new whipping boys?!!
• Travel is becoming a big issue and needs to be looked at. Fans have raised some salient points.
• Under 18's should get some urgent attention now. A coordinated development program involving lights and twilight fixtures please...
• Monky's contribution deserves praise.
• Has the Board thought about presenting a named medal i.e. the Gittos Medal (unashamed plug!), to the winning coaches, rather than just a player's medal?
• Can we now afford a bigger presentation trailer? That one was generously built 12 years ago by a well-known Woori Life Member.

 

[Johnny Football]

Well done to all at the league on the finals series. The GF's were both great days and certainly both divisions generated some great publicity for the league.

A couple of thoughts:

Keep using Alexandra as a finals venue - great ground and great hospitality. Lets hope Yea may be interested in 2010.

Car parking at Woori is an issue with big crowds - best ground to host finals due to its central location though and good atmosphere. The change rooms are average though and could use a spruce up.

Catering was good on both GF days as well at other clubs hosting finals.

Umpiring has improved significantly from my observations this year and we even had proper umpires in Reserves games which is a great step forward. Heard on the grapevine that "Man in White" will be moving over from the EFL in 2010 as well as a couple of others due to disharmony in the EFL. The EFL umpiring is no better then ours at all!

Kepp playing the 1 Division GF on the day that the EFL 1st division GF is not on as it certainly adds to crowd numbers as people in the area follow both leagues.

Well done to the league on their efforts in 2010 and to you Graeme by posting on here. The only league President that does so which is great!

I am not sure parking is an issue, the look and atmosphere at the EFL granny was fantastic with not a car in site, even looks much better especially with a big crowd. It then comes down to quality surface and change rooms for the big day. Obviously car parking restrictions outside the ground can cause issues, but could be good for local economy after the game

As for the umpires, my gripe is that they ball watch and miss incidents when the ball leaves a contest or behind play (not all)

Agree with Alex, a well run club with great hospitality, good ground surface and rooms

 

[sportguru]

I think the finals went really well, from what I heard both Olinda and Alex where good new venues, and where very well run.

How do clubs without the facilities to run finals get into the act, Woori and Gembrook probably use it as a major fund raiser, Woori would have to have done very well across the 2 GF's.

Also raises the issue of Home GF's, a lot of work goes into the season from a huge number of volunteers in all clubs, surely there must be a way to not give one club an absolute free kick - there must be a back up ground to cover the possibility.

Also need to look at Unders - fantastic effort from Monbulk and Mt Eve to get teams together and make the GF. Maybe Unders played after the Seniors under lights could be a good experiment - we would need lighting to be improved, but not out of the question

 

[Graeme Tuplin]

Loved the passion from you both! And thanks to Rusty. A well run and valuable forum. Some good points have come out of the year...

• The forum is a good communication tool for the Board as well as 'grass roots' fans. Appreciate your input, Tuppo and there are some very good posters who have entertained and informed.
• The Alex factor has been a revelation and worth the travel to a quality finals venue.
• Finals were very well run. Congrats to all involved.
• Yes, the Netball has been a terrific fillip for the league. (Just tell Billy H that 1/. He shouldn't claim credit - it was the VCFL initiative 2/. I did not try to stop it when President, as he tries to report on radio!)
• Umpiring is "better" because the instruction is back on the mark. We lost direction by over-umpiring for a little while.
• Sunday GF did concern me because I didn't understand why, but it appears to have worked.
• Let's hope that from now on the Interleague game gets the attention from players, clubs and fans that it deserves.
• Silvan gone - are Upwey the new whipping boys?!!
• Travel is becoming a big issue and needs to be looked at. Fans have raised some salient points.
• Under 18's should get some urgent attention now. A coordinated development program involving lights and twilight fixtures please...
• Monky's contribution deserves praise.
• Has the Board thought about presenting a named medal i.e. the Gittos Medal (unashamed plug!), to the winning coaches, rather than just a player's medal?
• Can we now afford a bigger presentation trailer? That one was generously built 12 years ago by a well-known Woori Life Member.

Monniehawk comments as follows:
Yes agree forum should be for communication. I believe that at board level should be used as a proactive tool not just re-active.
Alex worked well (afternoon teas are taking on legend status from all reports the best 3 buck's spend in footy) as did Olinda. Personally like to see Yea get involved as well. Will come into consideration at finals de-brief
Netball - fantastic. Controlled continued growth will be in our planning. To be honest the key driver was Ben O'Brien and its been a great get.
Umpires agree. Have heard some good rumors about new guys next year which can only help.
Sunday reason as advised in previous post. Facts, this year we took $28,306 compared to last year $20,774. Gates not the only reason but its a strong argument and helps.
Interleague will be good next year. We look like playing Bellarine again who are still hurting from this years result and early reports is that it will be at Skilled Stadium, what a great opportunity for our players. Agree we want everyones buy in.
Yes Upwey should be the wipping boys. Take the pressure of the board.
The travel is a consideration and is continually looked at. Hard to make a black or white call either way.
Agree unders this year worked well with the cross over games, but I have said a number of times I reakon its one of our most important challenges. We can not allow this to just drift on and say it will be right. Its right across the VCFL
Monkey has been fantastic to his club and also this league and a most valuable contribution.
Naming rights are a hard one, because over time they can start to loose touch with the person involved. happy to take on notice and refer to board for consideration
Its a living miracle that over the past 10 years we haven't lost anyone through the floor ( especially when the boys start jumping up and down) or the whole thing hasnt tipped over. I agree its time to upgrade to something a bit bigger

Keep up good work love to hear you thoughts

GT

 

[Blue Tongue]

I am not sure parking is an issue, the look and atmosphere at the EFL granny was fantastic with not a car in site, even looks much better especially with a big crowd. It then comes down to quality surface and change rooms for the big day. Obviously car parking restrictions outside the ground can cause issues, but could be good for local economy after the game

Parking is an issue in this league on Grand Final day - maybe not in the EFL where you can get the train to Bayswater station and walk to the ground.

Don't see much public transport in the Yarra Valley though - especially on a Sunday!

 

[Front Row]

Graeme, what is the reason we no longer use the Kilsyth ground to showcase YV footy.

- Surface was second to none
- Change rooms were fair and of decent size
- The size of the ground was perfect for Valley footy
- There were bitumen tennis courts on site which could easily catered netball
- good neutral location for many clubs, if Alexandra was no issue, then Kilsyth is no issue.
- Close enough to attract plenty of people from the EFL over for a look,
- Great viewing for spectators.

Parking may have been an issue, but there was plenty of room in surrounding roads.

Fits a lot of needs for the league, and something that really seemed like was over before it started,

 

[ManInWhite]

Wasn't Kilsyth being used by the Eastern Rangers this year? Would they have had power of veto?

 

[Front Row]

it was originally a joint venture with both Eastern and YVMDFL, Ranges haves been there for a few years now and i remember finals in '06 played there when the Ranges had already used it all year as office and training base

 

[Footy Rules]

The league washed there hands of it, they put a fair amount of money into it & l thimk some disagreements with Eastern & it all got a bit to hard for them.
l know plenty of my mates from this side enjoyed when there were games at the oval.

 

[St Bongo]

Was at Kilsyth last week for a trial game Eastern v Dandenong. Playing surface was pretty ordinary (there had been a bit or rain) and the surrounds showed no indication of any significant financial investment. Would have been an inferior venue for finals compared to those that were used.

 

[Graeme Tuplin]

Front Row, we entered a joint venture with Eastern Ranges and took on Kilsyth as a back up ground for our league (used by Olinda & Silvan when their grounds were being upgraded ) and also to be used for finals. This worked OK originally but then there were some changes in the arrangement which made it less attractive to our clubs. In addition, when we did have the finals there because of the small number of cars that could fit in the ground we had to put a lot of cars in surrounding roads and the council then charged us for traffic control operators, which made it less attractive. But the final straw was that we were asked to contribute a substancial amount of money over 5 years to pay for upgrading of lights which in the main would only be used by Eastern ranges and we could not justify the ongoing relationship. Agree it was a good surface at the time.

 

[Cagga]

Rip it up. 2 reasons for the Sunday GF and trying something new

1) Clubs playing in preliminary final on Sunday had only 6 days to come up if GF was played on Saturday. That is the feedback we received from clubs.

2) EFL GF was on Saturday and we thought we may drag some people who would like to see both GF's which proved to be the case.

GT

Graeme sorry for the late feedback but I think it was clear I didnt like the Sunday idea & still dont. Before giving feedback I thought I would check with others who participated (players & club volunteers) on the day as I place their opinion higher than supporters - without them we have no comp.

My understanding further to your reasons above the other decision making was due to a) Line marking b) camera crew options & c) AFL prelim Finals in Melb possibly on a Sat. These all seem very minor & can be sorted apart the AFL. Lets not worry about the AFL as 9/10times they will probably play night Prelims for prime time TV.

*$8K extra to the bottom line from the previous year due to the gate, was this due to the Sunday Granny & no EFL clash? I dont think so. It has more to do with the particpating Clubs & their support base. Upwey x2 teams, Monbulk x2 teams, Woori x 1 & home ground & Mt Eve netballers & unders. These are all strong supported clubs & lastly the weather was kind. Lets compare these gate takings (remember prices have gone up over last 5 yrs If memory serves me correct) over a 5yr period then a true reflection on gate can be taken. Lastly where was last years GF & what were the conditions of the day? Here is our answer

*6 day break - does this matter at our level? In reality we think not. But if it is so important why did we still have 6 day break for 2nd div? Solve it play 2nd div with Sunday finals (like EFL do with lower Div's) & leave all 1st Div on Saturday. This gives all 7 day break.
This then comes back to where we were 5+yrs ago wanting to also showcase 2nd Div on Sat. But what about 1st Div our premier Div? We have to have some priority & I think 1st Div gets it as the premier div.

*In conjunction with this we talked about the clash with EFL. We never used to have this clash. Many times we started our season the same week as EFL 2nd Div, thus avoiding the clash. Did we drag in 600+supporters from the EFL to boost our gate up by $8K? I dont think we did. Lets be generous we reckon 100-120 at most.

*Grounds for GF the big 4: Woori Gembrook Warby Healesville
Woori is a winner hands down, atmosphere, ground size, rooms, netball, parking, location. Some questions on the surface this year & if we were Upwey would be happy playing Woori at home? maybe a backup needs to be in place...
2nd Warby As with Woori atmosphere, ground, location, Rooms are ok, only lacks Netball & parking struggles
3rd Healesville: Rooms good, surface good, parking good, atmosphere struggles, ground size a little big. No Netball
4th Gembrook by the length Flemington Last. All same as Healesville, bonus they have Netball. BUT the Wind! this kills every positive it has, players, supporters & support staff hate it, nobody is ever comfortable. Yes it can get windy at some of the other venues but double it & thats what it will be like at Gembrook.

*U18's Serious look at this - there needs to be a roundtable forum for all clubs to come up some ways to keep this going strong. We were all happy with the comprimised competition worked well. Though only 3 times throughout the year did we play full 18v18 on the ground. Most clubs 1-2 on bench, some none.

*Future Structure of the League - all & sundry are talking about including players who I know usually dont give a rats tossbag about league stuff. From a club / player point of view we need to understand a League vision - 5 yr plan or something along these lines, so it becomes clearer for all. Graeme with all due respect the plan of 1999 of 10 & 10 is outdated as many changes in teams has occurred. Promotion / relegation used to be a positive but it seems to have lost its luster as the travel side of things is a bigger issue.

Sorry for the longwinded view but I hope this helps
Cheers Cagga