Forward Line Structure

[OldSchool]

Seeing a few of the practice games this season we still seem to often breakdown across half forward.
I tend to think part of the problem is with our preference to only go in with two talls plus Johnno and Browny which I would class as tall smalls along with a couple of other smaller players like McMahon, Gilbee or Guido that are there to try and crumb a few goals.
That set-up works well when our midfield uses the ball effectively but in doing so it often forces us wide because the smaller guys always tend to lead to the flanks rather than down the middle where opposition players are dropping back.
When our midfield is not precise we often find or smaller blokes outmarked by the loose defender and we are then automatically on the backfoot because of the turnover.

I think the simple solution would be to play a third tall across HF who might not necessarily have to take marks but at the very least provide an additional target and to get the ball to the ground if he is not in a position to take the grab where if our midfield pushes forward will provide them with a lot of opportunities.

Suggest that we have a few decent candidates like McGuinness, Hargrave and one from left field would be a player like Harrison.
With Grant going into the defence, we might need to move some of the more versatile defender types like Hargrave or Harrison up forward.
I would be happy if the club was to try McGuinness there this weekend but would also consider some of the other guys.

Anyone have some thoughts on what our forward line structure should look like ?

 

[Mr. Walker]

I guess it depends on how many we have in the forward line.

If we go with a 5 man forward line this year and play an extra man down back then I see 3 talls up forward as one too many. Richmond seem to play the extra tall whereas Brisbane go with Lynch and Brown only - enough said.

I agree with McGuinness as the third mobile tall option but have some concerns with clogging up the forward line with so many big blokes. My solution would be to play the three tall forwards Bandy, Wiggins and McGuinness in a match but not all in the forward line at the same time.

I am trying to think of how many other teams use the 3 talls ploy consistently and Richmond is the only one that readily springs to mind if I don't count O'Loughlin of Sydney.

3 big guys clogs it up too much for me.

 

[Fossie 32]

For me KMac is de man at FF and Bandy at CHF.

 

[Dry Rot]

Is Kmac really a tall?

 

[stefoid]

Do you reckon its just across half forward? My impression from watching the Geelong game was we just werent bringing the ball forward in the right way.

I guess also do we have enough forward smarts? Bandy should be a main target, but is he doing the right thing when the ball is coming up?

 

[OldSchool]

Originally posted by Dry Rot
Is Kmac really a tall?

He is about 190cm and very good at the ground level as well.
Ideal height for a third tall.
Tend to agree with MrWalker that you can sometime go into a game too tall but that is why I think we need a mobile third tall.

 

[OldSchool]

Originally posted by stefoid
Do you reckon its just across half forward? My impression from watching the Geelong game was we just werent bringing the ball forward in the right way.

I guess also do we have enough forward smarts? Bandy should be a main target, but is he doing the right thing when the ball is coming up?

Midfield was under a fair bit of pressure against the Cats. You might be right

 

[stefoid]

I like Kmac at HFF too.

 

[stefoid]

Oops, almost forgot. Crofty.

Wiggins deserves to be tried, god knows we need another true tall in the team.

But Crofty playing FP would be another good option of 3rd tall, and it goes along with my (current theory that we should try pushing some of out better strong contest players forward.

 

[LondonBulldog]

Without a doubt definately three talls. All the best side you three talls or at least three people who play tall. Problem is whether we have three quality talls.

Re: Mr. Walker Bribane for most of the year had Brown, Lynch, Bradshaw. If not Bradshaw it was resting ruckman McDonald or Keating. Throw in Headland or Knotting or even Pike at times last year and they always had a tall forward line. Enough Said.


Essendon :Lloyd, Lucas and Hird

Who are are quality talls? Bandy....and thats about it at this stage and that's our problem. We have no choice but to rely on Brown and Johnson.

 

[jim440]

Originally posted by LondonBulldog
Without a doubt definately three talls. All the best side you three talls or at least three people who play tall. Problem is whether we have three quality talls.

Re: Mr. Walker Bribane for most of the year had Brown, Lynch, Bradshaw. If not Bradshaw it was resting ruckman McDonald or Keating. Throw in Headland or Knotting or even Pike at times last year and they always had a tall forward line. Enough Said.


Essendon :Lloyd, Lucas and Hird

Who are are quality talls? Bandy....and thats about it at this stage and that's our problem. We have no choice but to rely on Brown and Johnson.

When Hawthorn were doing OK they had Holland, Thompson, Barker and Dixon. When Barker got hurt and Dixon couldn't get a kick, see ya later, Hawks.

 

[The Doctor]

I think we look better with 3 talls but the problem is have we got the quality and if so will it rob other areas such as key defensive positions?


My starting forward line would be

HF: Johnson, Bandy, Giansiracusa
F: Robbins, K-Mac, Brown

Int: Wiggins

only 2 talls here but I've brought in Robbins to play a defensive style forward role to chase tackle and hit packs hard. Johnno and Brown needed forward due to inexperience of K-Mac. Wiggo coming in off the bench if extra height is needed.

Scenario 2

HF: K-Mac, Bandy, Giansiracusa
F: Brown, Croft, Alvey

Int: Wiggins

3 talls but using K-mac as a roaming half forward and Croft as the bullocking forward. Consequently I've gone for an extra crumber in Alvey. Johnno and Robbo released upfield.

Scenario 3

HF: Brown, Bandy, Johnson
HF: Croft, Wiggins, Garlick

Int: K-Mac

this time I've strengthened half forward line and getting Brown and Johnno closer to midfield action and used a couple of tall marking options across FF. Garlick as an experienced and specialist crumber. K-mac to interchange as a leading forward if Wiggo and Croft too static.

Scenario 4

HF: Brown, Grant, Johnno
F: Robbins, Wiggins, Croft

Int: K-Mac, Garlick

A more robust and rugged forward line aimed at keeping the ball in the forward line while keeping a quality half forward line to add polish.

 

[SCRAY72]

Originally posted by Dry Rot
Is Kmac really a tall?

He is about 188cm and more importantly plays tall.
Guys like Archer and Solomon are great players because they are under 190cm and can mark overhead.
K-Mac is a confidence player and if he holds his marks early he will go on with it.
I agree with the Wiggins, K-Mac, Bandy forward set up with rotations of the mediums and smalls. Brown, Johnson, West, Gia,Garlick,Gilbee etc.

 

[stefoid]

Originally posted by LondonBulldog
Without a doubt definately three talls. All the best side you three talls or at least three people who play tall. Problem is whether we have three quality talls.

Re: Mr. Walker Bribane for most of the year had Brown, Lynch, Bradshaw. If not Bradshaw it was resting ruckman McDonald or Keating. Throw in Headland or Knotting or even Pike at times last year and they always had a tall forward line. Enough Said.


Essendon :Lloyd, Lucas and Hird

Who are are quality talls? Bandy....and thats about it at this stage and that's our problem. We have no choice but to rely on Brown and Johnson.

we wont progress relying on Johno and Brown. We have to be preapred to do some hard yards and perservere with the talls we have.

 

[stefoid]

Originally posted by stefoid
we wont progress relying on Johno and Brown. We have to be preapred to do some hard yards and perservere with the talls we have.

...although, Johno on a HFF might be interesting because he could either crumb to Bandy or offer a marking target in his own right.

however I think we need him more as a midifielder.

 

[OldSchool]

We could actually throw in an extra tall mobile forward to create some match up problems for the opposition.
One line up forward option which I think could still work would be a combination of:

Hargrave Bandy McGuinness
Johnson Wiggins Brown

Hargrave or McGuiness would start on a defensive wing and have to push forward to provide the additional forward target. Both are also handy at the ground level and are good kicks.

Another option with a different look would be
Harrison Bandy Johnson
Brown McGuinness Garlick

I actually think Harrison might be worth a look at up forward because of his mobility.

We do have a number of options so it will be interesting to see if the coach is willing to experiment.

 

[Dry Rot]

On this topic, what do you think are the characteristics of a classic HFF? and FP? And who would be your picks respectively in the comp?

 

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Dry Rot
On this topic, what do you think are the characteristics of a classic HFF? and FP? And who would be your picks respectively in the comp?

Brad Johnson and/or Nathan Brown

 

[OldSchool]

Originally posted by Dry Rot
On this topic, what do you think are the characteristics of a classic HFF? and FP? And who would be your picks respectively in the comp?

To me a player like Paul Husdon was the classic prototype half forward flanker. Just tall enough, 186cm, to warrant a taller player required to mind him and just quick enough to exploit a slow defender. A deadly kick that could light up the scoreboard in a short time and was also great at passing the ball off to other forwards. One of the other requirements for a HFF is to also be defensively minded and to place pressure on the defender when they are in possession. This was not Huddo's strength.
Johnno does a very good job for us as a half forward but is perhaps a better midfielder. Johnno is very accountable defensively.

For the forward pocket, I dont think you can go any further than Browny but like Johnno he is also a great midfielder. You need the ability to hold your marks on a fast lead and also the ability to crumb a goal.
Simon Garlick plays the FP position well and is a good interchange with Browny.

If Nathan Eagleton can ever find consistent form he has the ability and skill to play as a small HFF.

 

[stefoid]

Harrisons ground skills are underwhelming.

Originally posted by Dry Rot
On this topic, what do you think are the characteristics of a classic HFF? and FP? And who would be your picks respectively in the comp?

half forwards:
supposedly a difficult position to play because you can be starved of opportunites -- I guess you have to pay more attention to your teammates space behind you and not clogging it up.

1) reading the play / footy smarts
2) good overhead
3) good at ground level
4) field kicking

Best in comp : James Hird

(small) forward pocket:
typically an opportunist role, creating something from nothing
1) quick thinker / plays on instinct
2) good at ground level
3) goal kicking
4) acceleration

Best in comp: Nathan G

 

[Dry Rot]

Thank you OldSchool & Stefoid. I now realise we at least an extra 2 players short.

 

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Dry Rot
I now realise we at least an extra 2 players short.

disagree with that. No need to worry about our HFF's

we have arguably the 2 best HFF's in the comp in Johnson and Brown. We also have Giansiracusa.

key positions is where we are short.

 

[stefoid]

Where does Brad Murphy play -- supposed to be a half forward I think?

 

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by stefoid
Where does Brad Murphy play -- supposed to be a half forward I think?

yes he is and he fits some of the descriptions above in this thread.

 

[OldSchool]

For anyone who went today, how did you see the extra tall in the forward line working especially since we didn't have Bandy ?
I thought that Skipper and Harrison provided a target and at the very least made sure that they did not get outmarked.
A huge improvement on last week