Fox Hunting

[darth_timon]

I read an article in The Daily Mail today which rather annoyed me. I would link to the article but it doesn;t appear to be available online just yet. It concerns foxes, their classification by some as vermin, and despite listing some means of deterring them from your property, implies we should go back to hunting them like vermim, replete with red jackets, horses and packs of dogs.

I've issued my response below:

http://wp.me/p4V4lR-ll

I picked up a copy of The Daily Mail today. I don't usually do that, but they're giving away free Lego, so I picked that up for my daughter.

As I flicked through the pages, idly glancing at the articles, I couldn't help but come across an article (well, several in fact) that annoyed me. On page 28, there is an article about foxes.

The article is written by Andrew Pierce, who recounts some unfortunate experiences he's had with foxes. I'm not without sympathy - there are foxes in my neck of the woods. I'll admit to some concern for my little girl - foxes can be dangerous, and yes, they can carry diseases. Pierce refers in his article to tragic incidents where foxes have attacked small children, so yes, the danger is real.

It's also true that foxes can make a lot of noise. They screech at night sometimes, and yes, they have been known to kill family pets.

The thing is, they have been all but encouraged to slip into urban areas by our wasteful society, as we create easy hunting grounds with our rubbish and scraps for foxes to feast on (indeed, given our steady encroachment upon green spaces and natural habitats, we have left foxes almost needing to come to our doorstep to survive).

We've made it easy for foxes to come to us.

Pierce makes the following statements about foxes:

These disgusting and stinking vermin - and that's what they are - should be culled

I've never been on a fox-hunt and have no interest in going on one. But I would love to see a red-jacketed huntsman, followed by hounds, charging through the back gardens of our neighbourhood. Apart from doing us all a service, it would be worth it just to see the look on Joanna Lumley's face

Foxes are not vermin. They are wild animals, driven into urban areas by the expansion of those areas. They would not be in our cities and streets if we were not chopping up their natural homes.

Pierce's declaration about fox hunting is telling. Hunts usually involve several men armed with guns who have several dogs that are sent after a single fox, and somehow, this is dressed up as 'sport'.

It's not sport. It's a throwback to the age of toffs who took pleasure in killing defenceless animals. Sport implies two people or teams with a means to compete. There is no such thing in fox hunting.

Finally, whilst it's true that foxes carry diseases and have been known to hurt people, this is true of other animals. The Daily Mail itself ran an article in 2011 that 6,000 cases of dog-related injuries were reported.

No one is calling for dogs to be culled.

Repeated searches for numbers in regard to fox-related injuries have not revealed any hard numbers (in itself quite interesting - are there too few to warrant articles?).

It's also worth noting that as of January 2015, most of the UK still favours the ban on fox hunting, and rightly so.

 

[medusala]

No one is calling for dogs to be culled...

Dangerous Dogs Act

.

Foxes are not vermin..

WTF

It's also worth noting that as of January 2015, most of the UK still favours the ban on fox hunting, and rightly so.

Jeebus

Someone throw this nonsense in QT

 

[darth_timon]

Dangerous Dogs Act

It's not a means of population control. It deals (humanely, I might add) with dangerous dogs as and when the situation arises. It's also worth noting that incidents involving dogs are far more widespread than with foxes. This doesn't attract the histeria that takes place whenever a fox hurts someone.

Yet we obviously wouldn't declare every dog a danger and a menace. I'm not advocating that, for the sake of clarity.

Fox hunting on the other hand, is done for fun. For sport. Because out-of-touch country toffs think it's somehow sporting to have a pack of dogs, guns and traps to take out one fox.

.

WTF

Did you know that foxes keep rat populations under control, and that incidents where they attack cats and pets are actually quite rare?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/shortcuts/2013/feb/11/urban-foxes-fact-fiction

Jeebus

Someone throw this nonsense in QT

It would be a good place for your response to go.

It's a fact that, as of January this year, a majority of the British public were against fox hunting and supported the ban. I've provided the link that shows that. Do you have any informative to offer in response?

Dangerous Dogs Act

.

WTF



Jeebus

Someone throw this nonsense in QT

 

[little graham]

In Australia foxes are vermin, in England they're not.

I use to hunt foxes, evidently around here farmers can't afford the ammo to go shooting and make an impact, such is their numbers. We had a few wet summers up here, populations went ballistic.

I remember one night one was in our paddock and I chased him to our neighbors. I jumped in the car, drove up the road and pointed my headlights waiting for him to go past. When he did I flattened it and chased him. I was doing about 70, just about to slowly run him over when he made a 90 degree turn. Being a recently sown wheat paddock, the middle of winter, it was quite slippery, when I tried to turn with him, I went into a big slide. Never seen that little phuquer again..

 

[Tasmaniac]

I assume all the above is U.K. related?

In Australia they are vermin, and if possible (it's not) exterminated. Along with a long list of other introduced species.

Prancing round in red coats with dogs wouldn't get the job done though.

If by hunting, you mean methodical extermination, then yes.

 

[darth_timon]

What I tend to argue is for humane approaches. Traditional rich toff hunting isn't that. It's ineffective as a means of control, and is all about taking pleasure in scaring the animal out of its wits then having dogs rip it apart. It's barbaric.

 

[Thrawn]

I hate when people use the "vermin" tag to justify unnecessary cruelty to animals. The real vermin on this planet are irresponsible and vicious people.

These animals don't choose to be foxes, they are a problem as a result of human interference. Anyone who thinks unnecessary cruelty is ok because they view the animal as a pest are being callous shitbags, and idiots. And this doesn't just go with foxes either, this goes for cane toads, Indian mynahs, stray cats, rodents, etc. Basically any animal with a backbone and cognitively advanced enough to suffer. Just because something is a pest doesn't mean you should kill it in the most painful way possible merely because it's "fun" or "convenient".

I agree with the premise that fox hunting is barbaric, meaning, chasing foxes with a pack of dogs for hours on horseback only for them to slowly rip the animal apart. That isn't hunting, that's a bloodsport. Hunting and/or pest control needn't be barbaric, if people do need to control animals then they should do it with a bit of respect and compassion.

 

[Lebbo73]

I hate when people use the "vermin" tag to justify unnecessary cruelty to animals. The real vermin on this planet are irresponsible and vicious people.

These animals don't choose to be foxes, they are a problem as a result of human interference. Anyone who thinks unnecessary cruelty is ok because they view the animal as a pest are being callous shitbags, and idiots. And this doesn't just go with foxes either, this goes for cane toads, Indian mynahs, stray cats, rodents, etc. Basically any animal with a backbone and cognitively advanced enough to suffer. Just because something is a pest doesn't mean you should kill it in the most painful way possible merely because it's "fun" or "convenient".

I agree with the premise that fox hunting is barbaric, meaning, chasing foxes with a pack of dogs for hours on horseback only for them to slowly rip the animal apart. That isn't hunting, that's a bloodsport. Hunting and/or pest control needn't be barbaric, if people do need to control animals then they should do it with a bit of respect and compassion.

I like to hit cane toads with a 9 iron. You have to be careful though, those big bastards ******* hurt your wrists at impact!

 

[Thrawn]

I like to hit cane toads with a 9 iron. You have to be careful though, those big bastards ******* hurt your wrists at impact!

Here's an interesting site for that sort of thing.

 

[Lebbo73]

Here's an interesting site for that sort of thing.

Thanks for the advice, but I only hit them from behind with my 9 iron. This makes sure that the glands do not spray poison at impact!

 

[blackcat]

when I think of fox hunting, I think meds cooped up at Vaughn Smith's country estate.

medusala

 

[blackcat]

its the Daily Mail

and where did the OP first get the info? if you could not link the webpage, or it did not exist, and you had not bought the DM and the lego.

I like it when they do the spoof lego stop actions of Wolstencraft's Hellfire Club. be damned

 

[medusala]

In Australia foxes are vermin, in England they're not.

Yeah sure, foxes in the UK are vegetarian.

And this doesn't just go with foxes either, this goes for cane toads, Indian mynahs, stray cats, rodents, etc. Basically any animal with a backbone and cognitively advanced enough to suffer.

Sure, lets stop all fishing.

It's a fact that, as of January this year, a majority of the British public were against fox hunting and supported the ban. I've provided the link that shows that. Do you have any informative to offer in response?

A majority of people (this thread no exception) are utterly clueless about country life and the damage that vermin can do. Why should farmers have to put up with livestock losses so a bunch of clueless bleeding hearts sitting in Islington can feel a bit better about themselves?

 

[darth_timon]

Yeah sure, foxes in the UK are vegetarian.



Sure, lets stop all fishing.



A majority of people (this thread no exception) are utterly clueless about country life and the damage that vermin can do. Why should farmers have to put up with livestock losses so a bunch of clueless bleeding hearts sitting in Islington can feel a bit better about themselves?

Your last paragraph misses the point. Foxes can be controlled through humane means (ie, not having a bunch of toffs on horseback with packs of dogs hunting them for so-called sport).

It's against popular opinion to bring that back, yet the Tories might do it anyway.

 

[medusala]

Your last paragraph misses the point.

No it doesn't. The bill had NOTHING to do with animal welfare. It was just the labour party being knobs and pxssing off Tories in country seats.

Foxhunting is in the foxes best interest. A) they get a sporting chance and B) fox numbers are more likely to decline with a ban in place.

"Toffs". Yep those horrible rich people. Best we put them up against the wall

You may as well argue PETA has a point.

 

[Gus Poyet]

I agree with the premise that fox hunting is barbaric, meaning, chasing foxes with a pack of dogs for hours on horseback only for them to slowly rip the animal apart. That isn't hunting, that's a bloodsport. Hunting and/or pest control needn't be barbaric, if people do need to control animals then they should do it with a bit of respect and compassion.

And how do you do that?

 

[Thrawn]

Sure, lets stop all fishing.

Not the point.

A majority of people (this thread no exception) are utterly clueless about country life and the damage that vermin can do. Why should farmers have to put up with livestock losses so a bunch of clueless bleeding hearts sitting in Islington can feel a bit better about themselves?

Why should we have to put up with psychopathic people who torture animals, instead of humanely doing the job?

Farmers don't need to chase a fox halfway across the countryside on horseback only for their dogs to slowly tear the animal apart. They're certainly not doing that for practical reasons. A hunter with a firearm is going to be much more efficient and humane.

The whole point of it is not to be an inhumane bastard when dealing with such animals. Preventing them from doing damage doesn't give someone free license to act like a psychopath.

And how do you do that?

What a dumb question.

 

[medusala]

Why should we have to put up with psychopathic people who torture animals, instead of humanely doing the job?

On what basis isn't fox hunting humane? How long do you think it takes for the fox to die? Its almost instant (and certainly is in the cases where the fox is holed up and killed via shotgun)

Compare that with spot lighting where a decent % of foxes will be gut shot and suffer a slow and agonising death.

 

[Thrawn]

On what basis isn't fox hunting humane? How long do you think it takes for the fox to die? Its almost instant (and certainly is in the cases where the fox is holed up and killed via shotgun)

Compare that with spot lighting where a decent % of foxes will be gut shot and suffer a slow and agonising death.

On the basis that it takes some time for the fox to die as it's been ripped apart by dogs, after being mercilessly chased for a long period of time. It's not almost instant. I'm talking about situations where people don't use guns.

People who can't shoot properly shouldn't be hunting them, bottom line.

 

[Gus Poyet]

What a dumb question.

No it's not, tell us all how you dispose of foxes?

You must be the expert on how to dispose of them in a way that satisfies you, so tell us.

"What a dumb question" sounds just like a deflection because you have nothing to add on the matter due to knowing nothing about foxes.

 

[medusala]

On the basis that it takes some time for the fox to die as it's been ripped apart by dogs, after being mercilessly chased for a long period of time. It's not almost instant. I'm talking about situations where people don't use guns..

No, it is almost instant, particularly when the neck is snapped

People who can't shoot properly shouldn't be hunting them, bottom line.

Have you ever actually shot animals with a spotlight?

 

[Thrawn]

No it's not, tell us all how you dispose of foxes?

That wasn't your question.

Your question was how to do so with a bit of compassion and respect.

The simple answer is not being unnecessarily cruel and a callous a-hole about it, by recognising that it's a living creature that can feel pain just like you or I. Pretty bloody obvious.

Majority of hunters I know have this level of respect with the animals they hunt. Hunting them on horseback and letting dogs slowly tear them apart shows no respect or compassion to the animal at all.

 

[medusala]

Majority of hunters I know have this level of respect with the animals they hunt. Hunting them on horseback and letting dogs slowly tear them apart shows no respect or compassion to the animal at all.

FFS dogs don't slowly tear them apart.

And what does being on horseback have to do with a humane death? Absolutely nothing, its irrelevant so why mention it?

 

[Thrawn]

No, it is almost instant, particularly when the neck is snapped

Now you are bullshitting, because more often than not the neck isn't snapped instantly. A lot of the time the animal is torn apart.

Have you ever actually shot animals with a spotlight?

If people can't shoot at the head or the chest with something like that then they should use a night vision hunting scope.

FFS dogs don't slowly tear them apart.

And what does being on horseback have to do with a humane death? Absolutely nothing, its irrelevant so why mention it?

Yes, they do. I've seen it happen before. Why do you think that form of hunting is banned?

It's because they are tormenting the animal before they are killing it, chasing it and chasing it until it's exhausted. How is that humane?

Let's face it, it's a blood sport.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Majority of hunters I know have this level of respect with the animals they hunt. Hunting them on horseback and letting dogs slowly tear them apart shows no respect or compassion to the animal at all.

Hounds aren't "tearers", they are throttlers. Meaning the majority of the time they will have snapped the neck of it's prey in the first few seconds of catching it.

You sure know your stuff.