Frawleys' coaching

[DirtyDogTiger]

There is a lot of negative posting about Spud and his coaching.

And I reckon a lot of it comes from 'reactive' types who feel stung by losing and want someone to blame (pay) for the way they are feeling. These types are quiet after wins and frantic after losses.

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I'm opening a discussion on coaching using examples Frawley as an example. This is because he's had us anywhere from third to thirteenth. had the ups and the downs. Here is an opportunity to tell us what you know about coaching.

Then when you bag spud, we can check here and see if you know what you're talking about.

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The players seem to like him after what i saw against Collingwood.
We know his teams can win games when they're on.
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Tony Jewell said he dumps the plan and goes to Plan B too quickly. Other less illustrious spectators have said he took too long against Melbourne.

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So you all think you know coaching?
A game with 8 posts, 200 rules, 1 ball with a crazy shape, 18 a side, 2 teams, 36 playing individuals, 3 umpires, 2 goal dudes, some guys on the boundary.

You think you can control all that?

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It is up to him to have the boys breathing fire when the siren goes.

He should have his match ups right.

He should have clearly instructed them how to use the ground.

He should have moves worked out when someone is getting belted.

But if the players get creamed like last friday, what's a coach to do?

Some teams cop a pasting. At least in round 2, there's time to fix things.

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Your turn.

 

[oxx]

Tony Jewell said he dumps the plan and goes to Plan B too quickly. Other less illustrious spectators have said he took too long against Melbourne.

Look dog,
Im here after a loss and im here after a win much to the dismay
of many.

I question the validity of his so called "plan b"

What is it exactly?

My spud-motions are more about not letting sleeping dogs lie
than looking for a re-action.

The majority agrees he's a dud anyway.
If he wasn't so stupid he'd know it and QUIT.

 

[1980]

Arent you the same clown that said Frawley will be Richmond's next premiership coach? Shows you how much you know about either coaching or the Richmond footy club.

When Frawley is replaced at the end of the year, we'll see how many other teams fight for his services. The real test of how good a coach he is will be whether he gets another senior coaching job after Richmond or not.

Let it go for now.

 

[corporal]

I've posted regarding this topic to many times considering a get called a "Troll" by yourself because I don't think after 4 seasons that Frawley is up to AFL coaching,

I have a question DDT,

If Richmond do not get into the 8 this years do you think Frawley should be sacked and a new coach be sought after?

If not what course of action should our grossly underacheiving and financially strained club do?

I don't believe we can just blame our list anymore. Our core player group is as good as any club. The message is just not getting through.

 

[Crumden]

An interesting thing has just happened up here with the Canberra Brumbies. Nucifora (the coach) took the Brumbies to the semi-finals last year and the grand final the year before that. The Brumbies are currently sitting clear on top of the ladder. Nucifora has just been told that his contract won't be extended beyond this season. (Even a premiership won't save him).

This situation of coaches or players and clubs publicly deciding to part ways mid-season, but still playing out the season, is more common in the bumsniffers and is a bit foreign to the culture in our great game. But there is no reason why we couldn't do it. Collingwood more or less did it with Shaw.

 

[DirtyDogTiger]

I believe in the current list, the coach and the game plan.
That's my job as a member.

I support the lot of'em.

If frawley doesn't get us into the finals, he ought to take responsibility and offer a resignation.

if it isn't accepted he should make it public and say...'look i took responsibility, I offered it, they refused...i'm still coach'...

He's shown he can do it, when the players do what they are supposed to.

We've tried premiership coaches:
Jeans/walls

Tried our own: Jewell...Northey, Bartlett

we've sacked most of 'em...

Why were our players so lethargic last Friday ?
God Knows...maybe the coaches need to look at the players attitudes and make some late withdrawals before the game due to 'mental apathy' and tell the jounos..that'd send a strong message to the players now huh ?

BTW...Melbourne were red hot, and the richmond of last year and before would have gone down by 120-130 points.
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BTW, is that all anyone here wants to share of their coaching knowledge ?

 

[corporal]

Sorry DDT I didn't make to much sense of you post,

I wish Frawley all the best, but I also want a Premiership

By all mean give Frawley the season, however it we are in the 8 this year he has to go, resignation or not.


Have a good long weekend everyone!

 

[DirtyDogTiger]

Originally posted by corporal
Sorry DDT I didn't make to much sense of you post,

That's OK...logon later.

bring ox, coach, req'd, and 1980: share your secrets on AFL coaching.

maybe spud will get curious and logon looking for tips.

have a good weekend.
happy easter

 

[Coach Required]

DDT

I am also a member and I dont have to put up with lame incompetent performances from both the coach and players year after year, like 90% of Richmond members we have had a gutful of the lack of consistency.

There is no 'Ifs' about Frawley getting into the finals, because WE WONT MAKE THE 8, last weeks effort is proof of that.

The biggest mistake Richmond ever made was not giving Swooper another year on his contract, we had a coach who got us into the finals then and we had an air of confidence at the club. At the moment we are still the laughing stock of the competition and thats because of efforts such as last week.

Its upto the coach to make sure the team he has picked are ready to go. I know the coach cant play for them but right from the first bounce we didnt even look like it. Surely they should have been pumped.

Our coach doesnt back the kids enough, doesnt given them appropriate game time and when they are selected doesnt give them enough exposure, if your not going to play a new kid then why select him to sit on the bench in the first place, he might as well sit in the stands.

If you dont believe me then watch on monday if Shulz is selected, watch where he is played and watch when the dud puts him on the field.

Instead he plays hacks like Fleming and Hall all because they have played 1 good game for their entire life at Richmond.

If your going to play Flemming then you might as well put a midfielder of better substandard like Fletcher in, Im not rating Fletcher as a great midfielder again i think he is a dud too but he is better than Fleming.

We put up with the same boring and predictable list every week its about time danny fudley dudley took some chances and became a real coach.

 

[Coach Required]

Ill give you an example of how frawley wastes young talent

Take lil Kraka and Ashley Sampi.

Dudley played this kid basically from the moment we got him, but instead of giving the kid time to adapt he would start him in the fwd pocket as soon as things were going bad for us he would then take him off, for 2 years this kid was being taken off and on to the field, or dropped and then promoted the next week how is a kid supposed to get self confidence if the coach doesnt even have the ability to make a decision and stick to it.

exposure my backside!!!!!!! sitting off and on the bench isnt exposure.


Lets have a look at Sampi, he was hidden away in the WAFL for a year and as soon as he made his debut he was an instant success, he was put into a forward pocket alongside Matera and hasnt looked back !!!!!!!!

Sampi is a year younger than Krak yet I rate this kid more than Andy, its really only been the last 2 games where andy has looked the goods consistantly.

 

[Coach Required]

.

 

[tige19]

Originally posted by DirtyDogTiger
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The players seem to like him after what i saw against Collingwood.
We know his teams can win games when they're on.
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Your turn.

This just shows how little you know, i dont think Frawleys arrogant nature and nose in the air attitude would win many over at all, actually im preety sure it doesnt.
Frawley is a dud, bring in a Wallace or Eade and watch the club rise and thats in all seriousness, honestly can anyone here tell me that Spud would be a better coach than Plough or rocket???.

cheers

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by Coach Required
Ill give you an example of how frawley wastes young talent

Take lil Kraka and Ashley Sampi.

...

I'm not sure that is a fair comparison. Realistically, when Krakouer was drafted, he was well off the standard expected of even a draftee. He was picked on potential alone (a good call, that one) and was widely acknowledged that he would need time to get up to standard physically.

This year is the first time he has had the body to be able to compete, especially in the midfield.

Sampi on the other hand was highly rated and taken with the 6th pick overall in the 2001 draft. Even though he is 11 months younger than Krakouer, I would suggest that Sampi was already more advanced as a player even before he was drafted.

 

[cairo tiger]

said it before said it again nice bloke cannot coach
why are we havingto repeat ourselves?

 

[diggler]

You just have to hear him talk on TV/radio and it is plain to anyone that he is an absolute bore!
Its a rambling monologue, interspursed with yeah nah's and tired old cliches.
It reminds me of listening to country hour and farmers talking about their crops, or what the hefers sold for by the tonne!!!
No disrespect to farmers, but I dont want them coaching my side.
And he is trying to inspire an AFL side!!!!
I had the pleasure of listening to Northey, pre and after match. Now he was someone who got his message through.
Whilst we are not premiership material, he clearly cannot motivate the side.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

Originally posted by corporal
By all mean give Frawley the season, however it we are in the 8 this year he has to go, resignation or not.

So your saying that even if we finish say.. 6th, he will still be sacked? After finishing 14th and 13th the last two years?

Cmon...

The same threads about Frawley when its round 2/3 is sickening.

 

[froars]

Sorry DDT, i wouldn't have a clue about how to coach footy - i leave that up to the people we pay to do it - and hopefully effectively.

I wouldn't have a clue how to play it - never played much, just kick to kick with the kids in the street lol.

I do know how to support though and have an opinion when i think i need to contribute that. And i like a perv on the boys - oops, there goes all my credibility lol

I watch games, and the thing that ****s me the most is the way we go wide all the time. If that's part of the game plan you support, it's crap. Watching Brisbane last night going straight down the middle to Lynch et al was just fantastic to watch. Why do we insist on going wide?

But as you say, we know F-all - we're just here to bag Spud.

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by froars


...

I watch games, and the thing that ****s me the most is the way we go wide all the time. If that's part of the game plan you support, it's crap. Watching Brisbane last night going straight down the middle to Lynch et al was just fantastic to watch. Why do we insist on going wide?

...

And you should hear Tommy Hafey go on about that! He openly states that he must be the best coach going around because both Denis Pagan and Leigh Matthews (5 out of the last 8 premierships) implement a direct copy of his plan.

Where it falls down for us seems to be when we run off half back. While we may criticise the likes of Chaffey, Fiora and Tivendale for this, some cursory analysis will show that it is not really their fault.

It falls down because players up the field (ie., in the midfield) are not working hard enough. They all should see that the ball has been won and will be coming out imminently. There should therefore be as many as 5 or 6 options running in different directions, giving the half back choices of viable long options.

When this stagnates and their is nothing on offer upfield, the half backs are forced to kick around amongst themselves.

This really is only visible to those watching the game live as you can see the whole field.

Next time you are at the football, watch the players taking the ball out of defense and try and look upfield to see what options are available.

Playing a single CHF like we do in Morrison presents a quandary. We want Morrisson to stay around CHF to provide a contest in this vicinity.

What we could also use is the CHF pushing up the ground to provide a bigger marking target to help the half backs out.

Solution is to obviously play 2 CHF's. One (Morrisson) stays and works the traditional CHF zone while a second (Schulz) roams up the ground to become a quasi midfielder.

This is leaving Richo at home in the goalsquare with some small - man support.


(P.S. While I may not know how to coach a team, tactics and strategy are something I have studied now for a number of years)

 

[DirtyDogTiger]

onya Froars

Good on ya Froars...

great reply/ love the honesty.

A couple of things.

NO ! I don't support going wide with panicky short over possesings. I don't reckon Frawley does either...I like them going straight up the corridor and hitting the scorers or the goals themselves.

I 'd say Spud does too because when the players do it, it works.
Richo prefers it too.

What happens there is :either the players have gone the wrong way or get pressured in that direction.

or maybe because we have chased the opposition and won the ball in that pos'n.

Either the way they are still in the wrong spot and have to do whatever they can to straighten up.

That's when it can look crook.

Personally i l lean this way.
Come from defence the opposite way the ball came in and bring it back through the def corner of the centre square.

then straight up the corridor to the score zone.

ignore leads to the pocket.

Always go the scoring zone, even if the guys are covered. (Hello crumbers)

Therefore frequency and quality of penetration increases chances of a mark,kick,goal.

This is predictable but it's simple and up to the players to work harder if it's not going well.

When it works well, the disposal to goal ratio is nice and low.

plan B is: see plan A/work harder/want it more.

Ball disputes are different. Go hard/win the footy/handball shepherds/run past/hand balls recieved.

But that's just me.

 

[DirtyDogTiger]

Originally posted by CJH
(P.S. While I may not know how to coach a team, tactics and strategy are something I have studied now for a number of years)

It shows, BTW I betcha you could coach , if you thought about it

 

[froars]

It shows, BTW I betcha you could coach , if you thought about it

Me telling men what to do - i think not. They have not listened to me in the past - can't see them listening to me in the future lol.

But when you've got so many big fellas on our forward line, it seems crazy to me that you would go via the black stump to get it down to them. Straight down the guts as quick as you can get it. Just keep it moving forward rather than zig zagginig all over the place with short kicks leaving enough time for everyone to man up.

Good point CJH about the midfield not working hard and running for 5 or 6 options - you never see it, hence always looking for the boundary line.

DDT, i wouldn't have a clue - and no doubt TOO or someone will come and say so. And i suspect most of us wouldn't have a clue either. Would be very hard to coach a side like ours. We are armchair critics and not out there in the heat of it. But you talk about the Tigers game plan and that you support it. I can't see any plan at all - and if there is one, it ain't working.

 

[froars]

See i can't even read properly - you said CJH should coach lol

 

[DirtyDogTiger]

Originally posted by froars
Straight down the guts as quick as you can get it. Just keep it moving forward rather than zig zagginig all over the place with short kicks leaving enough time for everyone to man up. .

Love it.

Originally posted by froars
Good point CJH about the midfield not working hard and running for 5 or 6 options - you never see it, hence always looking for the boundary line.

Great point.

Originally posted by froars
But you talk about the Tigers game plan and that you support it. I can't see any plan at all - and if there is one, it ain't working.

Go back to the Collingwood game...rewind your tape...i know a weeks a long time in footy. You can't see a plan when the players don't use the plan. They were a bit off last Friday,

we'll be back.

They need more confidence and belief.

 

[Crumden]

Originally posted by froars


Good point CJH about the midfield not working hard and running for 5 or 6 options - you never see it, hence always looking for the boundary line.

Brisbane were a perfect example of this last night. As soon as they took possession (or looked like taking possession) they were running forward of the ball. Of course it takes not only hard running, it also relies on confidence in your team-mates to get the ball and then not turn it over. If players know there is a good chance of being rewarded, they will work harder to go forward. If they think the ball will be turned over by their team-mates and they are going to have to bust a gut getting back again, they may leave a little in the tank going forward.

 

[One-eyed Tiger]

Originally posted by CJH
Playing a single CHF like we do in Morrison presents a quandary. We want Morrisson to stay around CHF to provide a contest in this vicinity.

What we could also use is the CHF pushing up the ground to provide a bigger marking target to help the half backs out.

Solution is to obviously play 2 CHF's. One (Morrisson) stays and works the traditional CHF zone while a second (Schulz) roams up the ground to become a quasi midfielder.

This is leaving Richo at home in the goalsquare with some small - man support.

Agree 100% and it stood out like a sore thumb against melbourne with Bizzel playing loose in defence.

The other thing our forward line lacks is a mobile forward (like Hamill or Robertson) who can take a grab but isn't all at sea when the pill hits the deck. I always thought that this was the sort of position made for Joel Bowden.

How about a 4-2 setup up forward with Morrison, Bowden, Brown and Shulz across half-forward with Richo and Rodan deep in the forward line?