Analysis Free kick Cox.

[Scodog10]

Where's the big fella at?

Last night we saw one mark from him, four of his six possessions came from free kicks, he had just one hitout and he would've made Witts seem imposing given how limply he attacked a few contests. His previous appearance v Carlton was worse.

He played a lot like a bloke that had just one match in a five week period and skipped one of those to meet a politician. At 25 (26 by the time 2017 kicks off) I'd advise him to get a wriggle on and start making the most of every opportunity at this level. I'm not saying he's not going to make the grade more opening up discussion about the lack of progress from him over the past 8 weeks. Given he's foreign to the game continual improvement is crucial because no doubt everyone remembers Marty Clarke and what happened once the improvement slowed.

The one question I'll leave everyone to ponder is if he weren't really ridiculously super tall what would he have going for him as an AFL footballer? Following on from that what's the point of being that tall at AFL level if you go through games with 1 hitout and 1 mark?..

 

[MightyPies2010]

Its probably been mentioned elsewhere, but he did appear to hurt his shoulder fairly early in the first quarter.

In saying that, I 100% agree that he needs to continue to develop rapidly next year.

 

[Apex36]

Was just thinking along similar lines. He was crap last night, really should have ended up with about 2 posessions because those 4 frees were all very soft. He's never going to be a big accumulator around the ground, so if he's going to make it as a forward he really needs to work on his contested marking over the offseason. He's missing way too many that should be sticking given no defender can get close to spoiling at full stretch. I remember the commentators lauding Rance last night for spoiling a mark of Cox's, when in fact his fist didn't even get close, Cox just dropped it.

I hope he keeps improving, but it's a bit scary to think we might be relying on him as a best 22 player next year with no depth if we don't recruit another KPF.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Calm down.

Wasnt everyone ripping on Aish for the first half of the year too because somehow everyone expected him to be at Brownlow medal levels immediately?

Cox has been playing our game for 2 years. Total. In his life. He's playing in a terrible side, guided by TERRIBLE coaches. I'm surprised he's even as good as he is.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Where's the big fella at?

Last night we saw one mark from him, four of his six possessions came from free kicks, he had just one hitout and he would've made Witts seem imposing given how limply he attacked a few contests. His previous appearance v Carlton was worse.

He played a lot like a bloke that had just one match in a five week period and skipped one of those to meet a politician. At 25 (26 by the time 2017 kicks off) I'd advise him to get a wriggle on and start making the most of every opportunity at this level. I'm not saying he's not going to make the grade more opening up discussion about the lack of progress from him over the past 8 weeks. Given he's foreign to the game continual improvement is crucial because no doubt everyone remembers Marty Clarke and what happened once the improvement slowed.

The one question I'll leave everyone to ponder is if he weren't really ridiculously super tall what would he have going for him as an AFL footballer? Following on from that what's the point of being that tall at AFL level if you go through games with 1 hitout and 1 mark?..

If he was shorter he would not have made it.
His height is his point of difference.
But he is no star, I'm not sure he'll develop to be better than a good tall third type.
At least he prepares well and puts in according to all reports.
But he's no Paul salmon.
If he got to that level, well, we would be a whole lot better

 

[Go Woods]

Another pre season under his belt should see him improve greatly next year...still plenty of upside and certainly worth a senior spot on the list in 2017

 

[Scodog10]

Was just thinking along similar lines. He was crap last night, really should have ended up with about 2 posessions because those 4 frees were all very soft. He's never going to be a big accumulator around the ground, so if he's going to make it as a forward he really needs to work on his contested marking over the offseason. He's missing way too many that should be sticking given no defender can get close to spoiling at full stretch. I remember the commentators lauding Rance last night for spoiling a mark of Cox's, when in fact his fist didn't even get close, Cox just dropped it.

I hope he keeps improving, but it's a bit scary to think we might be relying on him as a best 22 player next year with no depth if we don't recruit another KPF.

The accumulation aspect of things is something I definitely agree with I'll personally be content with him as an 8 possession 1 goal a game player if he gives us something else.

What we need from him, IMO, is to either accumulate those possessions from marks or contribute more in the ruck. If he gives us 5 marks or 10 hitouts last night instead of relying on free kicks to stay involved it becomes an acceptable performance. Last night though was anything but that.

FWIW my thoughts on his marking are that a) we kick it to him horribly and b) he needs to put in a lot of one on one work with Rocca because I'd be able to shift him under the ball currently.

 

[Scodog10]

Calm down.

Wasnt everyone ripping on Aish for the first half of the year too because somehow everyone expected him to be at Brownlow medal levels immediately?

Cox has been playing our game for 2 years. Total. In his life. He's playing in a terrible side, guided by TERRIBLE coaches. I'm surprised he's even as good as he is.

I don't believe I ripped into him. He's struggled for almost half the season now so questions need to be asked at some stage.

Also once on a senior AFL list time learning the game is largely irrelevant. It's performance and improvement that a player will be judged on. Cox is providing neither currently.

That being said the coaching group and development staff definitely have their role to play in this to. In a strong football environment he would be playing seconds this week amd would have missed just one of the games he was rested for.

Edit: there's a big difference between Aish and Cox in terms of talent anyone doubting Aish was ill advised. Aish was put on this earth to play AFL footy everything he does is AFL quality. Cox on the other hand is playing because he's tall. They are literally incomparable.

 

[OniAu]

Wheres a project player from America at, who is in his second year of footy.

Maybe ask where Travis Cloke is at, a player who has 240 odd games and is averaging less goals this season than this so called American bust that's being hinted at. Who I might add is possibly on 10 x more salary than this "flakey" American who has shown a heck of a lot more than Trav has this year.

Delist Cloke and persist with Mason , at least he wants to be there and can cause a contest. The free kicks for last night were bad umpiring decisions and hardly Masons's fault, he put himself in that position a lot more times than Cloke and even White did.

 

[Rusty Beam]

I love the fact that he creates contests and generally brings the ball to ground, but given all his inherent unchangable deficiencies (ie lack of defensive pressure), he really needs to maximise the areas he can.

He needs to clunk those contested marks, or really he shouldn't be in the team.

I just hope we don't bank on him and look to draft another young kpf to develop alongside Moore.

 

[Maggie5]

I agree and have expressed my concerns previously.
Needs to learn to use his body better. There was a game where he did that and if he didn't mark he brought the ball down for crumbers but last night was not good for him.
Might work in a different set up but with White and Cloke it doesn't work.

 

[Scodog10]

Wheres a project player from America at, who is in his second year of footy.

Maybe ask where Travis Cloke is at, a player who has 240 odd games and is averaging less goals this season than this so called American bust that's being hinted at. Who I might add is possibly on 10 x more salary than this "flakey" American who has shown a heck of a lot more than Trav has this year.

Delist Cloke and persist with Mason , at least he wants to be there and can cause a contest. The free kicks for last night were bad umpiring decisions and hardly Masons's fault, he put himself in that position a lot more times than Cloke and even White did.

I believe there's a multitude of threads already shitcanning Cloke so why bring it to this one?

Given we've excused Cox for the umpires shit work why don't we analyse the other two times he held the ball in his hands in 90% game time? What does he do off the ball? How well does he go on the hit up lead? Does he create space for other forwards or is he always anchored to the square when not in the ruck?

Are those areas of his game improving enough for him to be a contributor of a top four team? Because that's what its all about isn't it. Building a premiership list and the lack of continuous improvement is starting to concern me.

 

[PicaBoo]

If we would have decent crumber we would get a lot more joy out of Cox.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

I don't watch a lot of basketball due to the peripheral bullshit but am I right in saying that in basketball, the ball is not often taken at full stretch above the head, let alone at speed over a distance?
Should this be true, Cox would need another season or so of running at the ball with some speed and taking it at full stretch above the head. He seems to have the basketball tendencies to place the arms out in front and take the ball in front of the eyes which presents problems for defenders who have to chop the arms. When he learns to use his body to shield the ball and the umpires do their job, there'll be more free kicks to piss off the opposition supporters and commentators who struggle to keep up with the rules. This of course is largely dependent on whether our players learn to kick the ball to a spot rather than over his head or dropping it short.
As for his ruck work, his leap timing was way off on a few occasions.

 

[jmac70]

After watching him drop marks in the VFL last week, I was really surprised to see him selected for the AFL. Bucks said before the game that he was a "like for like" replacement for Moore. I would love for someone to explain how Cox is in anyway similar to Moore.

 

[1892]

Bad management with injury not form necessitating his inclusion and it was a mistake to select him for the Richmond game. Last week was the first VFL match he's played since he was managed out of the seniors a month ago. He kicked a couple of goals early in that VFL game, but didn't do much else and looked like he needed another run. In terms of being managed out of seniors, he was looking tired, which is understandable given he's new to the game. While a week or 2 break was probably required either through bad timing or bad management we overcooked it, the VFL bye and VP visit hurt here.

He doesn't get enough footy around the ground to be a full time ruck, so unless he develops the ability to clunk marks like Cloke in his prime, he's always going to be a role player for mine. We've seen how much defenders panic, so at his height an 8-10 possession 1-2 goal per game player would be sufficient. Especially if we finally fill the small crumbing forward void.

Also don't think Cloke and Cox work as a forward combination, just makes it too easy for defenders to run the footy out of our backline.

 

[Maggie5]

Bad management with injury not form necessitating his inclusion and it was a mistake to select him for the Richmond game. Last week was the first VFL match he's played since he was managed out of the seniors a month ago. He kicked a couple of goals early in that VFL game, but didn't do much else and looked like he needed another run. In terms of being managed out of seniors, he was looking tired, which is understandable given he's new to the game. While a week or 2 break was probably required either through bad timing or bad management we overcooked it, the VFL bye and VP visit hurt here.

He doesn't get enough footy around the ground to be a full time ruck, so unless he develops the ability to clunk marks like Cloke in his prime, he's always going to be a role player for mine. We've seen how much defenders panic, so at his height an 8-10 possession 1-2 goal per game player would be sufficient. Especially if we finally fill the small crumbing forward void.

Also don't think Cloke and Cox work as a forward combination, just makes it too easy for defenders to run the footy out of our backline.

Actually in the combination I think it is White that stands out and that is why I couldn't understand why he was not rucking.

 

[danielnajdek]

At least he kicks straight at goal.

 

[Anzacday]

If we would have decent crumber we would get a lot more joy out of Cox.

Exactly what we need, a couple of little ones hanging around underneath him.

 

[Justlokan]

The one question I'll leave everyone to ponder is if he weren't really ridiculously super tall what would he have going for him as an AFL footballer? Following on from that what's the point of being that tall at AFL level if you go through games with 1 hitout and 1 mark?..

I agree that he is out of form or injured, so he shouldn't have played last night but earlier this year posters were gushing about his athleticism.
I recall Sandilands was essentially useless in his first couple of seasons but he was kept on the list simply because of the potential his height provided. Ditto with Witts. Aside from Nic Nat and to a lesser extent Grundy, I don't recall too many rucks that did well straight away.

 

[Scodog10]

I agree that he is out of form or injured, so he shouldn't have played last night but earlier this year posters were gushing about his athleticism.
I recall Sandilands was essentially useless in his first couple of seasons but he was kept on the list simply because of the potential his height provided. Ditto with Witts. Aside from Nic Nat and to a lesser extent Grundy, I don't recall too many rucks that did well straight away.

The key difference there, IMO, is that all those you mentioned are ruckman and he'll never be our first choice ruckman whilst Grundy is fit. Without that first ruck exposure he's left to fill a peripheral role which he's not quite productive enough in his marking or ruckwork to fill adequately ATM (it may come with time).

How's about this from left field. Would we have been any worse off last night playing Goldsack as the relief ruck? I don't rate his marking or ruckwork, but Cox gave us neither and I know Goldsack would have provided a shitload more at ground level.

 

[bucksisbest]

He needs to atleast stop getting moved around in contests so easily and get his arms above his head if he is actually going to scare teams a little bit.

As Isaid before he was dropped last time he is pretty much a totem pole atm.

 

[TimothyJ23]

Was lumbering around like a heavily-loaded packhorse for most of the 2nd-3rd-4th quarters last night. Needs to work on pace/fitness/turn of speed

 

[The Young Chevalier]

My opinion on Cox is that everything he has done this year is a bonus. Which means we shouldn't be relying on him to be a number 1 forward or even necessarily a number 2 forward. IMO we should aim to pick up a young KPF in the draft or in free agency. Ideally Cloke can stay 1 more year because there aren't many KPF's available and next year might be different, although if Cloke wants to much money or want's to leave-he can go.

 

[1892]

The key difference there, IMO, is that all those you mentioned are ruckman and he'll never be our first choice ruckman whilst Grundy is fit. Without that first ruck exposure he's left to fill a peripheral role which he's not quite productive enough in his marking or ruckwork to fill adequately ATM (it may come with time).

How's about this from left field. Would we have been any worse off last night playing Goldsack as the relief ruck? I don't rate his marking or ruckwork, but Cox gave us neither and I know Goldsack would have provided a shitload more at ground level.

If we were going to ignore form Gault would have been the most like for like replacement for Moore, rightfully that selection didn't occur. White can ruck and has been recently, so we only needed a forward option. Goldsack would have given us better balance and also allowed the option of switching Howe forward if we needed to mix it up. Oxley as a forward also intrigues me, but I'd like to see more than one half in the VFL.