Future of Super Rugby

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I'm actually surprised that the kiwis just dont pull out of the Super Rugby concept.
The old NPC was probably the best provincial comp in the world at the time.
 
balmainforever said:
I'm actually surprised that the kiwis just dont pull out of the Super Rugby concept.
The old NPC was probably the best provincial comp in the world at the time.
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It's purely to do with money unfortunately, both the NZ NPC and the SA Currie Cup are the two best domestic competitions in world, at full strength. Unfortunately, the revenue can't be generated in the same way as being in England and France can. They have the £ pound and € euro, but more importantly the population behind them to generate disproportionate commercial rights and pay-TV revenue. This is what Wales have to deal with also, despite having the £ pound and historically bigger clubs, the overall low population of Wales means less money generated through revenue deals for once great rugby clubs.

If all three original SANZAR nations go it alone, they will end up in the same way as soccer in Brazil and Argentina: producing the best players, having the biggest domestic teams by attendance and support; but without the pay-TV money, commercial rights money and exchange rate to keep the best players playing in their country, the domestic scene will collapse into becoming a feeder system for the richer European clubs.

It's a real shame. :pensive:
 
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Am I alone in thinking that the model with one team in each of Japan and Argentina is completely flawed even without the absurd distances of travel? RSA <--> Aust <--> NZ is bad enough but it used to work OK with tours. * flying from South Africa to Japan for one game. And * flying from Perth to Buenos Aires.

41 Jaguares players have been capped for Argentina. 33 Sunwolves players have been capped for Japan.

By comparison the Force and Rebels have 9 Wallabies each. The Reds, Brumbies and Waratahs have about 10-15 each on average.

It's a provincial competition and we've allowed two unions to join and effectively enter their test sides if they so choose. Argentina came 4th at the last World Cup, they're no mugs. They've started winning Rugby Championship matches too. The Super Rugby model is effectively circumventing their need to have provincial sides playing internationally like Aust, NZ & RSA. Japan has the Top League which runs August to January. Where does that sit with the introduction of the Sunwolves, who play February to August?

Japan in, actual Southern Hemisphere nations not represented. The whole thing just seems completely half arsed.
 

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And this year the Japan Top League clubs withdrew a lot of support from the SunWolves, turning a lot of the squad into a journeyman team. This is yet another problem SANZAAR needs to address.

The SunWolves are reminding me of the Paris St Germain débâcle in British Super League. Same thing happened there.
 
Is there a workable solution with the current 18 teams? There have been rumours of South Africa wanting to participate in Europe but I don't know how that would look since the Champion's Cup runs October to May (ie Southern Hemisphere Summer) and already has 20 teams in it anyway.

Force for example play 15 games this year; 8 at home, 3 away within Oz, 2 away in NZ, 1 away in RSA and 1 away in Argentina. Seems an odd way to structure an 18 team comp.
 
I suppose the other way would be to play everyone once, home or away. The South Africans will not be happy about the travel disadvantage they have, but I think what can be done is to make the travel arrangements just as hard for everybody. If, in the past, the South Africans and the Jags have to go on long, energy-sapping tours; then maybe they could structure a schedule whereby the east coast and New Zealand teams do the same? At the moment, the Force, Jags, SunWolves and South Africans have a tough travel schedule, maybe the key is to make travel equally as s**t for all teams and even the competition out that way? I know there was an evening effect when the competition first went to Super 14, it gave us our first South African champions.

I think this could be the concession they give to South Africa, in place of automatic finals spots, especially considering that those finals spots are there to alleviate their travel problems. The other concession, from Australia to both NZ and South Africa, would be less domestic derbies, which only Australia wants, but that's our problem, not theirs. I would also stop having the SunWolves games in Singapore, maybe teams can fly up from Australasia to Japan at the end of a tour, or fly straight to Japan from SA and Argentina in a bye week?

There are other problems of course. Should the Kings, as an internal South African political issue, really be tolerated by Australia and New Zealand? Should the SunWolves really be involved if they aren't fielding a full-strength team?

And what about the TV presentation? So many games are on at ungodly hours. Where's the free-to-air coverage? Etc...

Personally, I would like to see the Kings dropped, as it gives teams eight home matches and eight away, and the South African rugby public weren't really behind them in the first place.

But I'm starting to ramble on now.
 
Tours are going to be part and parcel of any SANZAAR provincial comp. We've got 3 Aus, 2 NZ, 3 Aus, SA, Arg, 4 Aus for our season.

It's never been a H&A comp, and has gone from 11 to 13 to 16 to 15 games played as the number of teams has changed. Why they went to 16 games with 15 teams I don't know, but 15 with 18 makes just as little sense. You should play everyone once, everyone twice (not feasible in this comp) or have a conference/draw system like the MLB or a tennis tournament.
 
Yeah, it is a strange one, I prefer the every team once, home or away model myself. I suppose because I'm old-skool, I still see the beauty in playing the non-Australian teams more often. I'm not too worried about two local derbies; I think that can be taken care of by having our own provincial championship or some sort of ARC/NRC to fill in the gap for domestic content.
 
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They might combine one of the tours for the Jags I would suppose? NZ and Aus would be one combined tour maybe?

Balance it out by making everyone else do a similar thing?
 
I think the only decent way to have 18 teams would be 3 pools of 6 - Sunwolves with Australia (close enough to being in the same time zone) and Jaguares with NZ (there is a direct flight from Auckland to Buenos Aires).

Then a similar structure to super 15. Home and away within your conference (or close enough) and then 3 or 4 games against teams from the other 2 conferences.

I don't want the ARU agreeing to anything that doesn't serve the best interests of Australian supporters, and a play every team once model wouldn't be in our interests at all.
 
The best model longer term would be two closed conferences: Pacific (Trans-Tasman plus Sunwolves and maybe another Asian or Pacific based team) and Atlantic (South Africa plus South America). Both could have whatever number of teams and format as is ideal, the two wouldn't have to be the same. Then the top X number of teams from each meet up for a playoffs series (and the rest could perhaps playoff for some secondary trophy).
 
Maester said:
The best model longer term would be two closed conferences: Pacific (Trans-Tasman plus Sunwolves and maybe another Asian or Pacific based team) and Atlantic (South Africa plus South America). Both could have whatever number of teams and format as is ideal, the two wouldn't have to be the same. Then the top X number of teams from each meet up for a playoffs series (and the rest could perhaps playoff for some secondary trophy).
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This is an interesting speculative idea, as there has been interest from the Pro 12 teams to link up with South Africa in Super Rugby.
 
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Link

The Rugby Union Players' Association has launched a petition to save Australian rugby's national footprint, warning of "permanent damage" to the game if a Super Rugby team is cut.

As the axe hovers over one of Australia's three smallest professional teams - the Force, Rebels or Brumbies - the players' union is trying to trigger a groundswell of public support to head off any such move.

The petition, entitled "Stronger As Five", warns that agreeing to cut an Australian team as part of a wider Super Rugby shakeup will "signal a retreat" in the competitive Australian sporting market place and also places responsibility for any decision - expected as early as next week - squarely at the feet of the Australian Rugby Union.
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The end is nigh for 3 teams.

Link

An agonising few weeks loom for two South African and one Australian Super Rugby teams, but the competition's governing body insists it was a case of cull or collapse.

"Without being too melodramatic, I don't think we would have had much of a product to put into the [broadcasting] market come 2020," Sanzaar chief executive Andy Marinos said of the decision to return to 15 teams next year.

"It just simply wasn't working. The drop-off from a viewership and attendance point of view was getting more and more significant."
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Link

Either the Western Force or the Melbourne Rebels are to be axed from Super Rugby after this season, but the Brumbies appear to be in the clear.

Sanzaar announced on Sunday that the Super Rugby competition will be reduced to 15 teams from next season.

Two teams from South Africa and one from Australia will be axed.
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Ridiculous if the Brumbies are in the clear.

The 3 originals will stay and the Rebels will be saved because the ARU can't afford legal action if they are cut. That leave us as the low hanging fruit.

10 WA players in the Force side today. How many Canberrans for the Brumbies and Victorians for the Rebels?
 
Scotland said:
If this was the operating model nobody would GAF about the NRC and the ARU would go broke.
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How much longer are people going to GAF about shitty Australian sides getting belted by New Zealand sides every weekend.

Losing teams do not attract fans or sponsorship.

Four teams won't be more competitive - they'll still all move to Europe for money.
 
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