Games & Recreation Gambling

[Tassieboy]

Punt quite a bit in AFL and cricket but that's it. I struggle to fathom, however, the rationale behind wanting to insert money into a machine knowing it is programmed to spit less back out. It's true that even with punting the odds aren't in your favour, but with some solid research I feel as if I bring those odds back into my favour. I have control. Big difference IMO.

 

[Hatchy1992]

I've played pokies once in my life.

It was the day after I turned 18. I put a one dollar coin into the machine, spun, and it spat back $23.

I immediately put it down to beginners' luck, walked away from the machine with my winnings, and have never been near one since.

They just do not appeal at all.

Similar thing happened to me 3 years ago. I had $10 left all night, sacrificed $1 in the pokies having a bit of a laugh with my mates, went to buy myself a drink, came back 5 minutes later and one of them handed me $20 back with a reply of "your debut winnings" Have touched one since with no luck.

These days the only times I gamble is the Melbourne Cup and putting a 5 on an outsider for the UEFA Champions league

 

[Doss]

Similar thing happened to me 3 years ago. I had $10 left all night, sacrificed $1 in the pokies having a bit of a laugh with my mates, went to buy myself a drink, came back 5 minutes later and one of them handed me $20 back with a reply of "your debut winnings" Have touched one since with no luck.

These days the only times I gamble is the Melbourne Cup and putting a 5 on an outsider for the UEFA Champions league

I've come across quite a few people with similar stories of beginners luck.

It's almost like the machines have a sixth sense!

 

[Simple Jack]

I've come across quite a few people with similar stories of beginners luck.

It's almost like the machines have a sixth sense!

I would imagine the algorithm has a mechanism to detect when a new person has sat down (i.e. machine hasn't been played for a while) and it pays out early on to hook them in before proceeding to take back the winnings plus a healthy profit margin.

 

[JuddsABlue]

I would imagine the algorithm has a mechanism to detect when a new person has sat down (i.e. machine hasn't been played for a while) and it pays out early on to hook them in before proceeding to take back the winnings plus a healthy profit margin.

lol I hope thats a joke

First reason being its extremely illegal.

Secondly, all payouts are random, there is no timing mechanism that determins when to win and when not to win. All machines have a variaty of winning combos (think Cherrys etc). The jackpots have less spots on the reels making them harder to win and the smaller ones have more spots on the reels. The payout for each winning combo is less than the actual chances of each combination occuring. This results in a profit to the machine, regardless of whether its a new person, old person, rich person or broke person. Whether theyre wearing theyre lucky undies or used their lucky "timing technique". The machine will spin randomly because thats all it needs to do.

lastly, if thats true, why arent you sitting in empty vanues while the pokie timer builds up then move in for the easy collect? If you dont have time for that, why arent other people?

If there was any type of technique that would alter the chances of the poker machine, why arent there people out there making a profit from it?

Its comments like yours that spread like wildife amongst the uneducated that creates the type of problems we have now

 

[mad_monkey_j]

Aren't they meant to payout a certain amount? So you're more likely to win going to crown on a Saturday night as there's a lot more people playing thus more money has to come back out or something like that. Though I can't stand pokies and have never played them.

Any time I gamble I ask "would I be willing to throw this amount of money away?" because most of the time it's effectively what you're doing.

 

[JuddsABlue]

Aren't they meant to payout a certain amount? So you're more likely to win going to crown on a Saturday night as there's a lot more people playing thus more money has to come back out or something like that. Though I can't stand pokies and have never played them.

Any time I gamble I ask "would I be willing to throw this amount of money away?" because most of the time it's effectively what you're doing.

There are 2 answers to your question

Yes they are required to return a certain amount. Minimum is roughly 87% so roughly every dollar that goes in then 87c comes out

But thats each individual poker machine, not a whole lot or a certain amount in certain places. Each individual machine is required to pay out the minimum of 87% (or whatever it exactly is but 87% is close). This is determined by the odds of each winning combo hitting and how much it pays. Different machines can achieve the minimum in different ways. Jackpot machines may funnel more money into the big one off jackpot and as a result, you'll see less returns in the smaller combos.

Other machines have no jackpots but have bigger returns in the smaller combos. Others pay out more money via bonuses like free spins etc. All of this is because some people like the jackpot idea, others like more consistent results.

It doesnt matter where the machine is or how much money has been pumped in it, each combo pays the same amount on your money. The jackpot is as likely to go off on its very first spin as it is any other random time. It doesnt pay more if theres more money in the machine, it doesnt care about that because it doesnt need to. The pure brilliance of it all is in the solid unchangable odds of each combo hitting and the amount it pays out. Your dollar vs their odds, each and every spin, completly irrelevent of any other spin before it or after it.

And if you enjoy gambling you're not "throwing money away". You're paying a fee for a game you like to play. If you were buying a monopoly board game or a chess set, would you ask the same question to determine buying it?

 

[mad_monkey_j]

There are 2 answers to your question
And if you enjoy gambling you're not "throwing money away". You're paying a fee for a game you like to play. If you were buying a monopoly board game or a chess set, would you ask the same question to determine buying it?

If you were to buy a board game you're getting enjoyment for an extended period of time and have something tangible in exchange for money. My thought process with gambling is that you're never guaranteed a return and, from what I've experienced, don't often get anything in return. Hence if you're not willing to dispose of you're money it's not worth risking it. You are right though, you are paying a fee for something you enjoy, similar to going to a concert or a night out drinking.

 

[hamohawk1]

I bet you $100 the OP is collecting information for an essay.

hahaha no, general interest i assure you

 

[JuddsABlue]

If you were to buy a board game you're getting enjoyment for an extended period of time and have something tangible in exchange for money. My thought process with gambling is that you're never guaranteed a return and, from what I've experienced, don't often get anything in return. Hence if you're not willing to dispose of you're money it's not worth risking it. You are right though, you are paying a fee for something you enjoy, similar to going to a concert or a night out drinking.

An example of the returns on gambling

As said earlier, pokies return around 87%, so for every $100 you turnover, you're going to get around $87 back, or it'll cost you $13

For a game like blackjack though the return is much greater, around the 99.5% mark (it varies depending on the rules of the game, blackjack comes in many forms) so for every $100 you turn over, you'll get around $99.50c back, or it'll cost you 50c

Roulette I'm not sure on off the top of my head but I think its a touch over 98.5% so costing you $1.50 for every $100 you turn over

Now it doesnt always work like that, you'll see big swings like losses of a hundred here and wins of a few hundred there, but over time the more you play the closer you'll get to the true expected loss of the game.

the wizard of odds is a good site if you want to learn the true/exact odds of all games out there

But that should give you an idea of how bad pokies are and why theyre so bad when you get such little return on you're money

 

[JuddsABlue]

Just read an interesting article about a 6 year old who attempted to open up some online betting accounts because he thought he was a good tipper so he thought he could make some extra pocket money. First he tried to put in a fake CC, then tried to use his mums but couldnt figure out the CCV number, thirdly he tried to apply for a credit card over the phone after seeing an add but failed

It should be noted if the account was opened and he deposited, there is a time frame in which he has to prove his identity by sending through IDs etc so he would've been found out

Perfect case here for the mother of the kid (who had no problem blaming the advertising) to educate herself on gambling and then pass it on to her kid and explain why even though he is a good tipper, its unlikely he'll make any money. If the mother chooses to shield her kid from gambling until hes 18, hes more than likely going to now see his chance at making some easy money.

 

[JimDocker]

I used to go to the trots and greyhounds with my parents when I was a kid. They would bet 50c to $1 on each race and we would have a great time.

Since then, I have only gambled on the Melbourne Cup, with a few exceptions below but have not bothered in recent years.

I did once go and put a bet on Fremantle beating West Coast in the derby at the Hilton TAB and when I came out , my car was on fire. Never been back to the TAB since !

I hate pokies and I love the fact that they are not part of the culture in WA. I took my kids to Vegas for a week's holiday once. I arrived about 12 hours before them as they were coming in from Kansas. I went to the casino attached to my hotel. Lost $20 on the pokies in about an hour and never gambled again the whole time I was there.

A few years back when The Ashes was about to start, I could not understand how Australia were favourites and I opened an account with Bet365 just to back England. I put $100 into it and won handsomely. Rather than draw the money out, I put bets on all sorts of things. This went on for a few weeks and I realised how addictive it could be.

I despise the fact that gambling is such a part of sports that are not traditionally associated with it. I understand the racing industry, but not football/cricket etc... I constantly tell my little boy how silly the whole concept is and how Tom Waterhouse is the devil incarnate when he comes on TV.

I do buy a lotto every week though.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Just read an interesting article about a 6 year old who attempted to open up some online betting accounts because he thought he was a good tipper so he thought he could make some extra pocket money. First he tried to put in a fake CC, then tried to use his mums but couldnt figure out the CCV number, thirdly he tried to apply for a credit card over the phone after seeing an add but failed

It should be noted if the account was opened and he deposited, there is a time frame in which he has to prove his identity by sending through IDs etc so he would've been found out

Perfect case here for the mother of the kid (who had no problem blaming the advertising) to educate herself on gambling and then pass it on to her kid and explain why even though he is a good tipper, its unlikely he'll make any money. If the mother chooses to shield her kid from gambling until hes 18, hes more than likely going to now see his chance at making some easy money.

I think it's not a bad approach to let teens have a dabble in punting early. They're kids, they won't have done much research, they're gonna lose. Good lesson to learn early.

Think 6yo might be a bit young though!

 

[SpaceCow]

I put ten dollars into a Sportsbet account at the start of the year and have just been feeding off that since. Mainly just small bets which I think seem good value. I do it more for the challenge of finding good odds or things which seem likely to succeed (ie: testing my footy knowledge) as opposed to wanting to make any money from it.

For the record I'm at around twenty dollars at the moment.

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

 

[00Stinger]

Like to have a bet on the footy or races. Will have a bet very couple of weeks or when there are some good race meets on. I will have a dabble on the pokies, probably once a month and normally will bet $50, with no concern on whether I win or lose, in fact I expect to lose.

Never bet in the casino though, learnt a while ago that I never win there. Whereas on the horses and footy I would be about even

 

[Shinboner '07]

I'm a serial gambler, it'll be every week with footy/rugby or every day when NBA is on.. Everyone knows it, but I'm in control and know when is enough for the time being. Worst thing you could do is chase your losses. I never do that

 

[checkraiseulite]

Far too much. For the last five years derived the majority of my income from playing poker.

Have lost a shitload of money betting on horseracing/baccarat/craps/blackjack though (usually whilst under the influence).

Think I've permanently lost the value of money and its affecting my life quite a bit.

Still put less than $5 in a pokie machine lifetime though. Agree with JAB about suburban pokies places being much worse than casinos/online sports books for every day problem gamblers.

 

[JHF1870]

I don't understand the love affair with gambling. You're destined to lose, the statistics are purposefully set so the bookies don't lose money. I was recently alerted to the trickery and deceit of gambling agencies by the show on the ABC The checkout and it turns out, Bet365 in this case sets restrictions on how much you can win, and other limiting restrictions on being a successful punter. On further investigation, it turns out most agencies will ban or limit your account if you are deemed to be a liability to their money making.

They're very willing to sign you up and give you free bets, but also very willing to limit or ban you when god forbid, you actually make any decent returns. Can't gamblers see the ride they're being taken on.

I can't tell people what to do, but I'll keep my money in my pocket thanks.

 

[iluvparis]

I don't understand the love affair with drinking. Your destined to lose. The tax structure is set up so that the government will never lose money and your destroying your own brain cells with every drink. I was recently alerted to the trickery when seeing a teenage girl vomiting her gets up on the streets in Melbourne. Apparently she had been consuming a product that looked like soft drink but contained some portion of alcohol. Not only that she had to pay a massive mark up just for the alocholic content of that drink. Can't drinkers see the ride they are being taken on?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Multiple times per week, but not in big amounts.

I'd say 80% of it would be on racing, with a bit on sport.

I also run a punters club with 7 other mates which I think is good fun, again a small buy in.

I don't spin pokies and I don't really like cards or casino games.

Mainly racing because I find it very satisfying to do the study and pick a winner.

 

[JuddsABlue]

I don't understand the love affair with gambling. You're destined to lose, the statistics are purposefully set so the bookies don't lose money. I was recently alerted to the trickery and deceit of gambling agencies by the show on the ABC The checkout and it turns out, Bet365 in this case sets restrictions on how much you can win, and other limiting restrictions on being a successful punter. On further investigation, it turns out most agencies will ban or limit your account if you are deemed to be a liability to their money making.

They're very willing to sign you up and give you free bets, but also very willing to limit or ban you when god forbid, you actually make any decent returns. Can't gamblers see the ride they're being taken on.

I can't tell people what to do, but I'll keep my money in my pocket thanks.

Like most people, you dont understand gambling

I've never earned a cent back from going to the movies. In all the movies I've seen, I'm left out of pocket. If I attempted to get some of my money back, I'd be sent to jail. I just give them money and watch this movie and go home.

I think I'll stop, the moneys better in my pocket.

(hint hint, gamblers gamble for recreation, its an enjoyable experience that costs money, like most enjoyable experiences there are in this world)

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

Thanks to whoever bumped this thread

 

[JHF1870]

Like most people, you dont understand gambling

I've never earned a cent back from going to the movies. In all the movies I've seen, I'm left out of pocket. If I attempted to get some of my money back, I'd be sent to jail. I just give them money and watch this movie and go home.

I think I'll stop, the moneys better in my pocket.

(hint hint, gamblers gamble for recreation, its an enjoyable experience that costs money, like most enjoyable experiences there are in this world)

I hope that first line wasn't an insult! because I think there is a stark contrast between spending money on a movie, and throwing it away, handing it straight to a bookie, who's intentions ARE NOT to entertain you, but to take your money. Movies are made; yes to make money obviously, but they make them to entertain. They inspire people, and are creative.

I think Ive already written this in the 'things I don't understand thread' But how people can call gambling a recreation is beyond me. From my perspective, I can't see how gambling holds any substance. But then again, there are people who say, why do people need to buy and play video games, its a waste of money, and money is better spent elsewhere etc.......

I'm not attacking people for gambling. We're free to do what we wish. I'm expressing my belief, and explaining why. Thats the point of this tread; to discuss your views on gambling. It was never going to be either pro gambling, or anti gambling.

 

[Catfish Alley]

I've got to say I agree with Juddy. I see spending money at a track or casino as spending money on a day out and entertainment. It's not really about making money at all.