Analysis Game Plan and Team Mentality

["The Roar Is Back"]

F me exactly as Sunshine Tiger says all these things (as the OP outlined so well) can be coached. Footscray had one pre-season with Beveridge as coach and they play a great style of footy with a bunch of kids. Similar now with Richardson at St Kilda. Point being that if our coach of 7 years can't get our senior players to lay a sheppard, or tackle, then I'm not sure what we're expecting.

Those saying it's confidence. I think the point of an effective system is that no matter who you bring in to the team, what their confidence level, they play their roll because it's been so effectively drilled into them at training by a coaching panel all on the same page. Wasn't the whole point of getting a stand-alone VFL team that the VFL player stepping up to the seniors would know the system (and their roll in it) better. That seems to have made no difference, despite what we were told.

100% agree on Heppel. He's got elite skills, great vision, knows where the goals are, couragious, smart, self-motivated, and professional in the way he goes about it. I'd be moving heaven and earth. He's got a point to prove in the next 3-4 years. Not sure what his contract status is but if there's a chance, I hope we go in hard.

Name me 4 players RFC have drafted or traded that are good runners after Menadue , Rioli and mcintosh the cupboard is bare at a pinch you could add Bellis who is a good runner but one paced .
Playing a fast moving game is fine if you have the players who can run to get on the end of it . The club simply doesn't have enough of those types and it is why a fit lids and sheds make such a difference .

 

[Joey longshadow]

I don't think for one minute that they clubs has welcomed the start to the year that has occurred . However I have no doubt that the club has learnt a lot about some
players ability to stand up against adversity . Whether that be Batchelor , Miles playing VFL , Hampson having to shoulder the ruck duties , Vickery ability to handle ruck duties . Mcintosh to play in defence . The ability of regulars Houli, Bellis , Rance , Vlaustin , Dustin , Cotchin , Vickery , Grimes , lambert and Grigg to stand up when the chips are down .
I think the club is now aware there are blokes in the side who aren't up to the adversity which also comes during finals and IMO regulars Vickery , Grigg , Houli , Vlaustin and Bellis , pending injury status, have been major failures Whilst the rest have shown they can perform against adversity .
All five of them should be very concerned because there is no doubt others have stood up and it is very likely to be 5-6 come into the side within the next month .
Batch , miles , Ivan , lids , Yarran , grimes , Townsend and Conca who many would have all had in their best 22 if they did a side at the start of the year .
Vickery and Griffith not performing whikst in the ruck and Hampson starting to take marks around the ground Means Griffith and Vickery willbensolely judged as forwards and McBean performing at VFL level means there is real genuine pressure on them.
Mcintosh and to a lesser extent Cellis and Lennon providing offensive drive off half back means Houli and Vlaustin ain't as safe . Lloyd , Menadue and Rioli providing some run through the midfield and lambert up forward means Bellis and Grigg are under increased pressure to hold their spot .
The next month is going to be very interesting and I just hope some of the kids continue to develop and continue to add pressure for spots .
I doubt anyone genuinely felt Rioli, Menadue , Cellis , Hampson and Lennon would push these other blokes out , but it is now a genuine possibility and I think the competition for spots is great to see .

Very good points
I would like to see Vlastuin tried in the middle though

 

[Tiger71]

Embrace it 71 you're almost there your eyes are open

My eyes have always been open bud. It is just that I am not as quick to cry fire as some

 

[Achilles Heel]

My eyes have always been open bud. It is just that I am not as quick to cry fire as some

It's Sunday go to the light my son

 

[leemo]

Some really good points being made.
I really do believe we can turn our form around. Why do we always make it so bloody hard for ourselves though? We played poorly in the collingwood game, but if the game ended 10 seconds earlier we walk away with the four points. Then we'd be sitting at 2-2 with losses against 2 teams that look like challenging for top 4 and things don't look so bad. Now we are under pressure to try and pinch a few wins back against sides we would have accepted a loss in and now the 50/50 games against sides around our position become crucial.
Without getting into individual players too much, I think we will be a much much better side with both Deledio and Yarran in. Not so much for their individual presence but because they are both good kicks, fast runners and play the kind of game that nearly everyone in this thread wants to see. All they have to do is get a couple of early touches where they mark, run hard into space and hit a target, then that sets the tone for the rest of the players out there for the game. Having said that, it would've been nice if the message was coming down from the coaches box to the players we have out on the field so far this season to do the same!

 

[Slipps]

Mate we won't beat demons .

We will get beaten by 40 at least

 

[_RT_]

TACKLING
Have we done ANYTHING over the past few seasons to improve our tackling efficiency? I don't think there is another team in the comp that lets their tackles get broken as easily as ours. Is it a size issue? Is it a strength issue? Is it an attitude issue? Either way, we need to start making them stick and aiming to take the opposition to the ground EVERY time. Should be a non-negotiable. As a sub-heading to this, why do we STILL empty the Terry Wallace basketball techique of waving our hands in the air trying to corral the opposition, instead of coming right at them and taking them down?

For me it's a size issue and a reason why we went out and brought in guys like Townsend and Moore to add size to the midfield. Look at our midfield group and it becomes very clear why. Miles 179cm/80kg Lambert 178cm/75kg B.Ellis 181cm/81kg Edwards 182cm/80kg C.Ellis 184cm/75kg & Menadue 187cm/69kg. That is a skinny small group of supporting midfielders which leaves a fair bit of the grunt work to guys we don't need to have doing those roles. Don't get me wrong everyone of these blokes listed will lay, or at least attempt to lay, a tackle when it's required but they just don't have the strength and size to make them stick. C.Ellis and Menadue have the frames that can allow them to become bigger stronger types. The possible inclusion of Vlastuin Townsend and even Conca into the group will hopefully improve the intensity in this area.

SLOW BALL MOVEMENT
If you move the ball quickly, you have a better chance to score. One of the only times we won the ball out of the centre last night and kicked it directly into the f50, Riewoldt was double teamed yet he had enough space to knock the ball forward where Rioli ran onto it and scored. This is not just an issue out of the middle but mainly off half back. We are too focused on trying to find a teammate in space, instead of trying to break the lines and play direct. Nearly everytime we get hands on the ball in a contest, our first option is to look behind and get an easy handpass out back. This can be a good strategy if the second or third possession is a long kick that hits a target, but instead we handball backwards and laterally 4-5 times. Every handball to a teammate under pressure should be punished in my opinion- if you've got time to handball the ball and it's going to a teammate with a defender breathing down his neck, I would much rather see a rushed kick going FORWARD to a contest, than a backwards handball to a teammate about to be tackled.

When we were up and running last year and full of confidence our ball movement was quick and direct once we got into space. To set that up it often meant a little bit of possession footy until the opening appeared and we could take it on. At the moment we're missing a fair bit of that run and carry that we rely on. B.Ellis Dusty & Cotchin in particular are getting most of their touches deep in defence rather than the back half of the centre square where they can drive into F50. Lets not forget the best run and carry player we have in Deledio is missing as is the other run and gun rebounder in Yarran. Quite confident that when these guys get into the side that our ball movement will improve greatly.

KICK IN STRATEGY
What is it? When was the last time we went coast to coast from a kick in. Our kick in strategy seems to be- short kick to player in space 30 metres out. Mark. Next? Bomb it to a contest on the wing. What is the point?! I understand that it is difficult to waltz the ball out of your back line, but we don't seem to have any strategy in place. I would like to see something like our tall forwards gathering to one side to draw the opposition over, and then leading hard and fast into space either towards the kicker or to the opposite wing to free up space. Whenever we are kicking the ball up from D50, we look completely static- like our players are just waiting for the bomb to the wing as an inevitability rather than presenting as an outlet option. On the reverse side, we seem completely unable to contain the ball in our f50 from opposition kick outs.

Our kick in strategy seems to have changed a little this year. The go to plan seems to be a play on run to the pocket and go as long as possible to get the ball out of scoring range. Plan B seems to be the short kick to the pocket and then long down the line to get the same overall effect. It's predictable and easy for the opposition to work on countering. What I would like to see is going the short kick into the pocket and instead of going down the line have a winger waiting on the opposite flank where we wait for everyone to drift across and then break hard the other way with the kick back across goal and our mid sized forwards then sprinting to the wings to be the link up. Having that work a couple of times would then create doubt in the oppositions minds and they don't just set up shop waiting for the same old routine.

As for stopping the oppositions kick ins. Well that comes down to work rate. To often our guys are too slow to set up and push across when a quick kick in is taken. We're fine when we have time to set up as the ball comes back from the crowd, but one a quick kick in we just amble into position. Quite simply the players need to pull their fingers out and bust their backsides to get themselves set up or at the very least recover when they are caught out of position.

KICKING TO THE WING AND PLAYING ALONG THE BOUNDARY
This seems to be our basic "game plan" if you can call it that. But why is this the case?
1- we are not a good contested ball winning side
2- we do not have elite ruckmen
3- we constantly turn the ball over out of packs.
So why is the basis of our attack to try to force the opposition into boundary throw ins and ball ups?

We were one of the better clearance sides a couple of years ago and we'd rely on our onballers to win the contest and set up the slingshot from the congestion through the use of guys like Deledio Martin Grigg Houli & Ellis. As I mentioned above, this year guys like Houli B.Ellis Martin & Cotchin are getting most of their touches down in D50 so their disposals aren't as damaging as they could be.

I also believe that the boundary gameplan will be a lot different when the likes of Deledio Yarran & Conca get on the park. Watching the NAB game against the Hawks we went through the corridor a fair bit more as we had guys willing to take the ball through there. Come the season proper and with a handful of good ball users missing the confidence of the kids to take the same risks isn't there. I know it's a boring response but the return of those missing with injury will drastically change things IMO.

SHEPHERDING
Or lack thereof. It is something that our players NEVER do. I believe that the bloke with his head over the ball should be able to go for it without having to immediately worry about disposing it without even getting a chance to look up. Especially with the way the holding the ball rule is officiated in today's game, you can not gather the ball and try to break a tackle and hit a target if you are under pressure as it will be a free kick. All of our players seem to be running ahead of the ball looking for the cheap handball out into space, instead of running towards the ball and blocking the chaser. If the guy already has the ball or is about to pick it up they are a better chance of getting in space if the shepherd is available and it's one less thing they have to worry about (ie quick under pressure handball). Give them a chance to gather the ball and look forward instead of a pointless sideways handball. I believe it has been coached out of our side and another thing that if corrected would help our game style enormously.

Personally I look at this as the least of our problems, there aren't many sides that are big on shepherding, well in terms of the old style arms out shepherd. It's more the blocks in packs and spoils that are a concern. We currently rank 17th in the AFL for 1% acts, that to me highlights why our ball movement is so stagnant. We don't have guys putting blocks on to spring a teammate into space either from a pack or for them to lead up to a teammate. Watching on Friday night how often the Eagles forwards would work for each other to create a mismatch or give a teammate a chance to get 1-2m of space to hit up a lead or break away from a pack. This is not something that can be addressed by the return on injured players. It doesn't take someone being AA quality to put on a block.

FORWARD SET UP
It's been spoken about by nearly every poster on here, but there has been no improvement. Jack and Ty continually lead to the same spot and get in each other's way. I also believe we have not found the ideal structure in terms of balance of talls/smalls. We have too many mids playing as resting forwards rather than genuine forward goal threats. This is why I am happy to keep someone like Lloyd in the team even if he has a game where he goes goalless or has few disposals- he has goal sense. I also believe we are lacking another decent mid sized leading tall, not so much for their goal kicking but to provide an outlet leading towards contest. Riewoldt constantly does it and is great, but then he marks the ball 70-80m out and we have nobody else to kick it to. This is a role I believe someone like Lennon or Griffiths would be suited to- playing in the f50 but not necessarily to kick bags of goals, just as a leading option playing more half forward rather than deep. Instead, we have played these players either in the goal square or in the back line. I'm not saying these two guys are the answer but I just think we need someone to play this TYPE of role.

For mine the best forward set up we can put on the park when up and running is:

HHF: Deledio Lennon
CHF: Riewoldt
F: Vickery Lloyd/Rioli
Floater: Martin

Not your regular 6 man forward set up, but one that IMO would be our most dangerous for the opposition to match up up. Deledio and Lennon are both 188cm types who have very good hands and both use the ball very well. I'd have them play as the high half forwards who push up onto the wings and provide the link up between D50 and F50. That would then allow Jack to play at CHF around 35-55m out from goal where a mark means a shot on goal. Jack might have slimmed down as a a result of the new cap, but the benefit is that would allow him to cover lots of ground and run his opponent ragged. Closer to goal I want Vickery with a Lloyd/Rioli type at his feet looking to clean up anything that hits the ground.

That leaves the last spot in the F50 and I would go with Dusty as a floater, who roams around the F50 as he sees fit depending on the match up he gets. Dusty has the strength of a KPF but the agility and ball winning ability of a midfielder. I'd suggest that most medium sized defenders in the AFL would have tight clackers at the thought of being left 1-1 deep with Dusty. If left in this position Dusty would be a 50 goal a season forward and in a team that is looking for more forward options we could do worse.

LEADERSHIP
I realise we have had a lot of important players out for the first few rounds, but I believe our players don't do enough to try to control the momentum of games in crucial stages. What I mean by that is- wrapping up and forcing contests/flooding the backline to stem the flow when the opposition has the ascendancy or has kicked a few on the trot, and on the flip side, putting the foot on the throat when we have the ascendancy. This I something that I believe shouldn't necessarily have to come from the coaches box but should be reactionary to our senior players. There is no way a team like Hawthorn or Sydney would have lost that collingwood game as they would have found a way to at least slow collingwoods momentum when they had it in the last few minutes. We showed a complete lack of composure and kept trying to play on and kick the sealing goal instead of chipping the ball up forward and forcing contests in our f50. This is just an example, but I mean more during the middle stages of games rather that at the end. Momentum and tempo is huge in today's game and this is why us as a supporter group never relax even when we are 6 goals up- we know the opposition are always on for a comeback.

This is a concern I don't agree on. We're 15-10 in games under 3 goals since the start of 2013. If our leadership was truly that bad our record wouldn't be that good, in fact it would be the opposite record or worse. Don't get me wrong I understand the cause for concern, just that IMO it is misplaced. Last year we were 6 goals down against the Swans in Sydney at half time and came back and won and it was because out leaders stood up and took control of the game. A few weeks later we took the Hawks on and beat them keeping them goalless in 2 quarters of footy not many sides can say they have done that against them. So all in all I believe our leadership is quite good, what cost us in the game against the Pies was that we had a number of leaders missing and with 7 players having played less than 30 games on the night we had guys who just didn't understand what needed to be done to be in the right positions so that we could control the footy and wind down the clock.

With that being said I hope that Hardwick sticks with the kids and doesn't panic because of the media pressure and reverts back to the older types who are capable of taking us so far but not to where we all want to be. For mine I would be basing any sides from here on based on the following group:

Astbury, Batchelor, Broad, Butler, Castagna, Conca, Cotchin, Deledio, Drummond, Edwards, B.Ellis, C.Ellis, Elton, Grigg, Grimes, Hampson, Houli, Lambert, Lennon, Lloyd, Maric, Markov, Martin, McBean, McIntosh, Menadue, Miles, A.Moore, Rance, Riewoldt, Rioli, Short, Townsend, Vickery, Vlastuin & Yarran.

It is only 4 weeks into the season but anyone not named that isn't a rookie I'd be putting a line through, while there are a couple of others that make that group that are playing for their careers.

 

[wegetpumped]

My eyes have always been open bud. It is just that I am not as quick to cry fire as some

No good having your eyes open when you can't see .

 

[Tiger71]

No good having your eyes open when you can't see .

No good having your eyes wide open when your mouth is always full

 

[richard parker]

not sure if the stats bare this out but it seems to me that the ball is being locked into forward 50 more effectively this season. this is for a few reasons: coaches increasingly putting more value on forward 50 pressure, stricter interpretation of deliberate rule and also stricter 15m kick interpretation. so it makes sense that teams with better functioning forward lines are going to benefit from this. we have had problems with our forward line for ages so it is just being emphasised more this season. if you look at the bottom teams they all have suspect forward lines while the top teams are more known for their attack.

with our midfield not firing very well it adds further to the problem...hence we look terrible

 

[partycorolla]

The coach is a fail on all fronts there.

The tackling shits me the most... basic football skill yet Dimma is too frickin' inept to do anything about it in 6.25 years. Sack this stupid turkey ASAP.

Absolutely....How the hell can players be expected to tackle if they don't know how to? We are just unlucky enough to have drafted and traded for players who have never been taught by anyone how to tackle ever

I wonder if perhaps the players aren't executing some of the instructions given to them..... maybe they need to take some of the blame. Funnily enough they have asked to be blamed...

DH needs to work on getting the selections right and maybe simplifying the thinking of younger less experienced players.... let them play on instinct a bit more...

 

[partycorolla]

not sure if the stats bare this out but it seems to me that the ball is being locked into forward 50 more effectively this season. this is for a few reasons: coaches increasingly putting more value on forward 50 pressure, stricter interpretation of deliberate rule and also stricter 15m kick interpretation. so it makes sense that teams with better functioning forward lines are going to benefit from this. we have had problems with our forward line for ages so it is just being emphasised more this season. if you look at the bottom teams they all have suspect forward lines while the top teams are more known for their attack.

with our midfield not firing very well it adds further to the problem...hence we look terrible

You mean the new 20m rule?

How the hell can there be an interpretation on the 15m kick rule? it's either 15 metres or it isn't.... hope they get each one reviewed in depth from this round.... I saw plenty of shockers.... and the consistency is almost non-existent.

 

[partycorolla]

Our problem is we cant hit the 45 degree kicks to break the opposition open. And we barely ever go for the kicks.

Or the wrong guys go for those kicks...

 

[partycorolla]

For mine the best forward set up we can put on the park when up and running is:

HHF: Deledio Lennon
CHF: Riewoldt
F: Vickery Lloyd/Rioli
Floater: Martin

Not your regular 6 man forward set up, but one that IMO would be our most dangerous for the opposition to match up up. Deledio and Lennon are both 188cm types who have very good hands and both use the ball very well. I'd have them play as the high half forwards who push up onto the wings and provide the link up between D50 and F50. That would then allow Jack to play at CHF around 35-55m out from goal where a mark means a shot on goal. Jack might have slimmed down as a a result of the new cap, but the benefit is that would allow him to cover lots of ground and run his opponent ragged. Closer to goal I want Vickery with a Lloyd/Rioli type at his feet looking to clean up anything that hits the ground.

That leaves the last spot in the F50 and I would go with Dusty as a floater, who roams around the F50 as he sees fit depending on the match up he gets. Dusty has the strength of a KPF but the agility and ball winning ability of a midfielder. I'd suggest that most medium sized defenders in the AFL would have tight clackers at the thought of being left 1-1 deep with Dusty. If left in this position Dusty would be a 50 goal a season forward and in a team that is looking for more forward options we could do worse.
.

Well considered post RT, I didn't quote all of it as there was a lot of info and I only wanted to touch on some of it. First of all I agree with most of it.... key personnel out make a difference when you are a middle of the road side (6-12) and this year it has caught up with us. The annoying thing about it though is that we haven't recruited cleverly or aggressively enough to address this earlier.

On our forward setup, I'm increasingly thinking it should be JR deep forward, with TV/Griff higher up (35-50) and making contests on the wing when we need an option out of defence. I agree with Lids/Lennon as hit up guys but to be honest, I think we can target a better version of that role player. Like a Tom Lynch at Adelaide, Gunston at Hawthorn. Aaron Edwards was the type but we needed someone better.... Lennon might do it but he's covering for our decimated defence a bit. Maybe when Grimes, Batch, Yarran and Conca are back he can move back into this role (and Vlas into the middle to toughen them up).

 

[_RT_]

Well considered post RT, I didn't quote all of it as there was a lot of info and I only wanted to touch on some of it. First of all I agree with most of it.... key personnel out make a difference when you are a middle of the road side (6-12) and this year it has caught up with us. The annoying thing about it though is that we haven't recruited cleverly or aggressively enough to address this earlier.

On the contrary I believe we did recruit smartly to address the lack of quality depth, it's just that the dreaded injury curse has impacted our ability toaddress it. Last year Drummond debuts early in the season, looks promising and then bang does his knee and misses 12 months. Corey Ellis was looking good for an early season run but again gets injured and his first season is ruined. Conca not exactly a new recruit but an important piece of the puzzle in our best side has effectively lost a season because of the hammy and now missing the first half of this season with another hammy.

Along the way we attempted to land a couple of bigger names. We went hard at Fyfe, Hanneberry, Parker, Hartlett, Mundy, Greenwood, Shiel, Treloar Tyson & Adams. Unfortunately we haven't landed any of them and outside say Fyfe Hanneberry Parker & Treloar, maybe Shiel too, I'm glad we missed on them as I don't think they would have made that much of a difference to us and what we would have given up to get them it wasn't worth it.

On our forward setup, I'm increasingly thinking it should be JR deep forward, with TV/Griff higher up (35-50) and making contests on the wing when we need an option out of defence. I agree with Lids/Lennon as hit up guys but to be honest, I think we can target a better version of that role player. Like a Tom Lynch at Adelaide, Gunston at Hawthorn. Aaron Edwards was the type but we needed someone better.... Lennon might do it but he's covering for our decimated defence a bit. Maybe when Grimes, Batch, Yarran and Conca are back he can move back into this role (and Vlas into the middle to toughen them up).

The problem with Ty/Griff up the ground is both are useless defensively once the ball hits the ground. In other words it will give the opposition an easy rebound if they bring the ball to ground, which is likely to happen given both aren't the most reliable marks. Jack is our best contested mark up the ground and is defensively much better when the ball hits the ground.

With Vickery/Griff(personally over him) down deep a ball hitting the ground still takes a bit to be cleared effectively from the forward line and with a smart small at their feet in Lloyd/Rioli/Edwards/Short it becomes less of a problem.

 

[Achilles Heel]

not sure if the stats bare this out but it seems to me that the ball is being locked into forward 50 more effectively this season. this is for a few reasons: coaches increasingly putting more value on forward 50 pressure, stricter interpretation of deliberate rule and also stricter 15m kick interpretation. so it makes sense that teams with better functioning forward lines are going to benefit from this. we have had problems with our forward line for ages so it is just being emphasised more this season. if you look at the bottom teams they all have suspect forward lines while the top teams are more known for their attack.

with our midfield not firing very well it adds further to the problem...hence we look terrible

We don't have to worry about locking it in our forward 50, inside 50s are not part of the coaches KPIs

 

[mopsy]

Hardwick lost me at the end of 2014 until that point in time i held fire on him despite some concerns appearing well before then.
I think the mistake we all make is we at times lose sight of the whole picture. The caoch is just one part of the problem and usually wears the brunt of any thing that is dished out.
Lots of things have been wrong for a long while and they need to be sorted before theres any talk of a new coach. If we dont fix these things any new coach will be doomed to failure as well.

 

[partycorolla]

On the contrary I believe we did recruit smartly to address the lack of quality depth, it's just that the dreaded injury curse has impacted our ability toaddress it. Last year Drummond debuts early in the season, looks promising and then bang does his knee and misses 12 months. Corey Ellis was looking good for an early season run but again gets injured and his first season is ruined. Conca not exactly a new recruit but an important piece of the puzzle in our best side has effectively lost a season because of the hammy and now missing the first half of this season with another hammy.

Along the way we attempted to land a couple of bigger names. We went hard at Fyfe, Hanneberry, Parker, Hartlett, Mundy, Greenwood, Shiel, Treloar Tyson & Adams. Unfortunately we haven't landed any of them and outside say Fyfe Hanneberry Parker & Treloar, maybe Shiel too, I'm glad we missed on them as I don't think they would have made that much of a difference to us and what we would have given up to get them it wasn't worth it.


{quote]On our forward setup, I'm increasingly thinking it should be JR deep forward, with TV/Griff higher up (35-50) and making contests on the wing when we need an option out of defence. I agree with Lids/Lennon as hit up guys but to be honest, I think we can target a better version of that role player. Like a Tom Lynch at Adelaide, Gunston at Hawthorn. Aaron Edwards was the type but we needed someone better.... Lennon might do it but he's covering for our decimated defence a bit. Maybe when Grimes, Batch, Yarran and Conca are back he can move back into this role (and Vlas into the middle to toughen them up).

The problem with Ty/Griff up the ground is both are useless defensively once the ball hits the ground. In other words it will give the opposition an easy rebound if they bring the ball to ground, which is likely to happen given both aren't the most reliable marks. Jack is our best contested mark up the ground and is defensively much better when the ball hits the ground.

With Vickery/Griff(personally over him) down deep a ball hitting the ground still takes a bit to be cleared effectively from the forward line and with a smart small at their feet in Lloyd/Rioli/Edwards/Short it becomes less of a problem.[/QUOTE]

I don't rate our depth at all.... I think players 15-30 all offer about the same at the moment (well maybe 22-30) and that is shown to be not quite good enough often enough at senior level... I'm not including C.Ellis, Menadue and a couple of others who have really just started... No inside mids at all and we upgraded Thomas... he was tough, hard and just far too slow and poor by foot to have an impact at AFL level... Good honest midfielders with size have been needed the moment Tuck looked gone and Jackson the same. We needed upgrades on those guys but we have barely replaced them at all. Rucks are the same.... very short there but one good one can certainly help. We drafted mids with our first pick for the last few years and have a wingman, a back pocket, a back flanker or two out of it... Vlas should be inside mid (now), C.Ellis probably will be, Conca (who knows, I think he is probably stuffed) and B.Ellis will always be outside. Miles has helped, Townsend is a stop gap, Lambert is hard working but small.... we need a bull or two in there who can actually play football. We have had long enough to trade, draft or rookie several but have failed to either recognise it as a need, or identify players that can do it. We lost 3 finals... all when our midfield gets beaten inside... that has to be the main area of focus for the list management team.

I think Vickery is fine when the ball is on the ground (for his size) when he is on with his intensity... JR needs to be deep forward more often imo and if Vickery/Griff can't play the other roles then trade/draft for blokes who can...For the moment though it doesn't matter as we can't get the ball forward...

 

[wegetpumped]

No good having your eyes wide open when your mouth is always full

M8 betting on richmond every week makes my mouth half full not to mention the wine i really should bet with my brain than my heart.

 

[Drofder]

Why does Hardwick use Griggs so much at centre bounces ? Don’t anyone say coz he’s tagging somebody coz that bloke doesn’t know the meaning of tag. e.g. stood Scott Thompson v the Crows at several centre bounces and then let him run totally rampant the rest of the play, the entire game.

Griggs the centre clearance specialist. Sure.

 

[Tigerland]

Absolutely....How the hell can players be expected to tackle if they don't know how to? We are just unlucky enough to have drafted and traded for players who have never been taught by anyone how to tackle ever

I wonder if perhaps the players aren't executing some of the instructions given to them..... maybe they need to take some of the blame. Funnily enough they have asked to be blamed...

DH needs to work on getting the selections right and maybe simplifying the thinking of younger less experienced players.... let them play on instinct a bit more...

I understand what you're saying that players aren't following instructions but that's a cop out for the coach. If it happens over and over again it comes down to how well the players are drilled.

A good coach instills fundamental beliefs in players, he sets standards, minimums. He shouldn't stand for anything less.
I mean WTF are we paying him to do if he doesn't do that.

We've never looked as bad in the 7 years of his coaching tenure.

Sorry this bloke is an absolute shizen coach and needs to be marched out the door along with all his dumb assistants ASAP.

 

[partycorolla]

I understand what you're saying that players aren't following instructions but that's a cop out for the coach. If it happens over and over again it comes down to how well the players are drilled.

A good coach instills fundamental beliefs in players, he sets standards, minimums. He shouldn't stand for anything less.
I mean WTF are we paying him to do if he doesn't do that.

We've never looked as bad in the 7 years of his coaching tenure.

Sorry this bloke is an absolute shizen coach and needs to be marched out the door along with all his dumb assistants ASAP.

I respectfully disagree (although some other assistants might be a good idea). You can't drop every player who is playing badly... we don't have enough on the list. At what point does Shane Edwards need to take responsibility for missing 5 metre handballs? At what point does Cotchin need to own up to handballing it out of bounds? At what point does Bachar Houli need to to take responsibility for dropping uncontested chest marks? I'm sorry, if you need a coach to fix that up, then you are a complete dud who shouldn't be on an AFL list.... Those guys aren't duds... they are just playing poorly. The coach has stuffed up as well but some of the things that have happened this year are beyond any coach.... ridiculous skill errors that we haven't seen en masse since Tim Fleming was getting a regular game. The guys doing it are good footballers and our senior players but they have been atrocious with their disposal this year. It's not that they can't do it because we have seen them do it.... they just aren't doing it. Coaching skill out of people? Nope....

DH, FJ and Hartley have to take responsibility for lack of quality depth and for drafting misses... Our best 22-24 is good enough to get us very close to top 4 when playing decent football. Lose 2-5 of them and or some form and I think we drop off very very quickly. That is the biggest knock I have on DH's regime. Most of the deadwood is gone now but could have gone earlier and more talent should be there.... Too many retreads over the journey that were average at best.... Houli, Grigg, Chaplin have been serviceable but should have been replaced by now.... instead they are mainstays in the best 18 (Chaplin excepted... though we'll be stuck with him for a little while).

 

[ryza87]

I'm a Hardwick man and have defended him throughout. However, right now fair enough for questions being asked. What I saw Friday night really worried me as it showed that

• our structures are completely broken at the moment
• our ability to work through other teams defensive pressure is non existent.

We looked like rabbits in spotlights on the night. These points are coaching issues.

Added to the 2 points above, we also have:

• Terrible skills as evidenced by very high number of turnover (in the 4 games to date we have been over 60 each game with 2 high 60's and one mid 60). Those are the numbers of a bottom 4 team.
• Stupid decision making by senior players. Turnovers and terrible decision making cost us the Collingwood game.
• Players handballing to stationary targets. No problem with doing that if that then releases the play and the next handball releases the play. However, it's handballing to a stationary player that gets that player in trouble and leads to a breakdown / turnover. That is a combination of bad coaching and terrible decision making.

Questioning our coaches is warranted right now given what is playing out on field.

And back onto my hobby horse...how has Brendan Lade become our mids and stoppages coach? Constantly questioned it last year and will continue to bang the drum on this one. Fine make him ruck coach but c'mo, there surely are some young aspiring coaches out there who can come in and coach our mids. FFS, go and get Matty Knights to come back and become our mids coach.

Read my mind regarding Knights. Would be a good get as an assistant.

 

[Achilles Heel]

To all the Dimma game plan lovers

Even the velvet sledgehammer who is dumb as dogs shit has worked it out

The players first instinct is to go backwards and sideways, this is a programmed game plan issue , as kids we grow up playing footy and our first instinct is to attack, why have these professional footballers changed so drastically?

Dimwit before the game Friday night , he wasn't interested in taking the game on, it was all about securing and maintain possession of the ball ( his words)

The blame is on the coach and anyone who has coached can see this.

Watch the replay, in one passage of play we broke out of defence a player took a mark on the wing on his own, he stopped looked sideways, backwards did a 360 and hand balled , at the time we had two free men in the forward line, Dimma does not encourage expansive play.

They have practiced the stupid game plan for 16 weeks , it has nothing to do about the players ain't good enough , it has been drilled into them, maybe some of you Dimma lovers need to go and watch a training session or two in the preseason to understand how this bloke us a dud

 

[_Wang_]

We are going to get reamed out by the Dees on the weekend, they will kick a million points against our game plan..

#eco