Review Game Summary? Pies vs Eagles

[Lefthanded]

Didn't get to see the game so after a summary from rational supporters who did. I was surprised there were so many high possession players and so many Eagles scored multiple goals

1. Who did Caff tag?
2. Was Tooves on Darling?
3. Who did Williams play on?
4. Read in different thread that Goldsack did okay, what was his role?
5. Any injury concerns from AFL or VFL (other than Dwyer & Marsh that I'm aware of)?
6. Where was Kennedy played, middle or forward?
7. Broomhead on a wing or forward?
8. How far off their best do you think Reid & Elliott are?
9. Did Buckley try many changes to try and change momentum / game style?

Appreciate your thoughts on these or possibly other related matters, even if can only answer some.

Sorry if there's already something covering this but couldn't see anything from a quick look and don't have time to go through 1000 posts from game day thread.

 

[TradeDraft]

Simple - WE WHERE SHIT

 

[suspect footskills]

In a nutshell, we were putrid. It was Pendles, Beams and Sidey with a few cameo appearances VS West Coast.

 

[bucksisbest]

We are shit, slow, dumb and soft. Also poorly coached.

Umpiring,particularly over there, borders on corrupt.

 

[DaVe86]

Didn't get to see the game so after a summary from rational supporters who did. I was surprised there were so many high possession players and so many Eagles scored multiple goals

1. Who did Caff tag?
2. Was Tooves on Darling?
3. Who did Williams play on?
4. Read in different thread that Goldsack did okay, what was his role?
5. Any injury concerns from AFL or VFL (other than Dwyer & Marsh that I'm aware of)?
6. Where was Kennedy played, middle or forward?
7. Broomhead on a wing or forward?
8. How far off their best do you think Reid & Elliott are?
9. Did Buckley try many changes to try and change momentum / game style?

Appreciate your thoughts on these or possibly other related matters, even if can only answer some.

Sorry if there's already something covering this but couldn't see anything from a quick look and don't have time to go through 1000 posts from game day thread.

1. Shuey mostly. Swung onto Priddis for a bit but then went back to Shuey inexplicably. Priddis was the dominant player on the field but was going head to head against Beams who was also our best. I think however we needed to lock down on Priddis. It was a mistake I reckon. If you stop Priddis, then it limits the effectiveness of Gaff and shuey.

2. Yes Toovey played Darling. Did a typically good job until the 2nd half when the game got blown open. Not Toovey's fault and wasn't directly on Darling at times. In the end Darling gets the points, but was an impossible job to stop any Eagles forward given the ease and quantity of the Eagles entries.

3. Williams didn't really have an opponent given the fact Eagles have no small forward. Had some responsibility for the likes of Cripps and that. Kinda didn't get into the game really and would've liked to see him thrown into the middle onto Gaff to try and shut him down.

4. Goldsack was one of our better tacklers as usual and did good wherever he played. We used him predominantly down back where he held up and stopped a few goals. Then swung forward on times to play on Hurn...but then just plugged holes wherever needed. To be honest, he should've started forward on Hurn, and we should've used Reid back considering the amount of Eagles talls.

5. Some word H may have got something, but that's just BF rumour for now. No other injuries that I could see. Caff got a beautiful shiner under his eye.

6. Kennedy was good. Started mostly forward, and reckon he could've been given a bit more on-ball time. But he had a dip. Needs to be a bit cleaner around stoppages, but he is also really slippery. Kicked 2 beautiful goals. Playing the Blair role to a large extent, and showed he is probably better at it.

7. Broomhead started forward on Hurn but showed he has a long way to go defensively. Let Hurn run off him. The majority of the game he played forward and on a wing. I'd like to see him across half back to be honest. His tackling is a feature which is positive, and was again good with ball use apart from one shank kick when he was running at full pelt.

8. Reid improved dramatically and to be honest was our best forward (which doesn't say much). He kicked a goal and set up a Kennedy goal, and his foot skills were good. He went across half back for about 5 minutes and looked solid as well, setting up a few nice rebounds. I'm still an advocate for him across half back. Elliott was good in patches. Tried lifting the team. I reckon he needs to get fitter though. He kicked a brilliant goal at the start of the last within 30 seconds of play, and ran straight off. I'd like to see him stay on when he has some momentum like that.

9. He tried a few things, but in the end we were getting smacked in the middle. There was little we could do. I reckon we would've subbed a tall and played smaller, but Dwyer got injured so that hamstrung Buckley. I would've liked to see us go with a smaller forward line to try and lock it in more. We just had no forward pressure at all.

 

[lenny20]

Didn't get to see the game so after a summary from rational supporters who did. I was surprised there were so many high possession players and so many Eagles scored multiple goals

1. Who did Caff tag?
2. Was Tooves on Darling?
3. Who did Williams play on?
4. Read in different thread that Goldsack did okay, what was his role?
5. Any injury concerns from AFL or VFL (other than Dwyer & Marsh that I'm aware of)?
6. Where was Kennedy played, middle or forward?
7. Broomhead on a wing or forward?
8. How far off their best do you think Reid & Elliott are?
9. Did Buckley try many changes to try and change momentum / game style?

Appreciate your thoughts on these or possibly other related matters, even if can only answer some.

Sorry if there's already something covering this but couldn't see anything from a quick look and don't have time to go through 1000 posts from game day thread.

It will be too painful for many to relive, Lefthanded - possibly the worst game of the year, and right alongside the Essendon and Freo losses in terms of effort and skill level. Very, very few positives to come out of the game and all the more painful and embarrassing considering what was at stake.

In answer to your questions:

1. I think Caff went to Shuey. I'm not 100% sure. Whoever he went to, he wasn't particularly effective. Why we keep on persisting with him tagging elite, lightning fast runners, I have no idea. He is continually beaten by the super speedsters, he's simply not fast enough. Meanwhile, Priddis, a prime Caff candidate, racked up 40+ possessions in a best on ground performance.

2. Tooves did take Darling for most of the game. He tried hard and had the best of him until the last quarter, when Darling got off the leash and kicked three. Pretty much the entire team was phoning it in at this stage, virtually no pressure on the forward 50 entries.

3. With LeCras a late out, I didn't see Williams get a task on any one player; I thought he played on a number of smalls that rotated through their forward line. He was poor in his disposal again but pretty good defensively. Just really struggled to get things going offensively, as he has all year. Hasn't been a good year for Marley, sadly. Couldn't hit the side of a barn at present.

4. Goldsack tried his hardest, as always. Certainly far from our worst, but at the same time, not a star by any stretch. Just a solid trier. Didn't disgrace himself.

5. A rare positive! Didn't notice anything other than Dwyer's injury - and even then, Bucks mentioned that it wasn't too serious an injury, and Sammy was likely to be subbed regardless.

6. Kenno played both middle and forward, but spent a fair bit more time in the guts than he has previously. A good game by him. 21 touches and 2 goals, just looks a player.

7. Broomy also played both mid and forward. Not as much time in the middle as Kennedy, but more time than previous weeks. 15 touches and the cleanest crumbing goal we've seen in Collingwood colours for a while.

8. Elliott tried hard and was one of our best. He's not in poor form by any stretch. He won his position and we could have used more of him. Reid looked better than his previous two outings but is still clearly nowhere near his best - nor will he be this year, sadly. Still, kicked a goal and played down back for a five minute window, where his intercept marking and clean disposal stood out from the rest of the team. He's still a player, and will be a welcome return next year, whichever end he plays at.

9. Bucks certainly tried a lot of positional changes. Armstrong moved forward after a shaky start down back and did okay. Reid as I mentioned above swung back briefly. Kennedy, Broomhead, Blair, all given more minutes in the midfield. Keeffe and Frost switched opponents after Keeffe's shaky start. That being said, our issues are clearly larger than individual match ups. Our overall structure is just terrible, absolute league-worst kind of stuff. We have no options at all when we win the ball, just nothing to kick to whatsoever. Our long bail-out kick down the line is usually outnumbered about three-to-one, and our short options are all tightly-marked 50/50 balls. As a team we have absolutely no idea what we're doing with ball in hand. Likewise, in defence, we attempt to zone off but have very little effect on slowing the opposition's ball movement. Our zones are terribly planned and terribly implemented. It inevitably leads to fast ball movement into an open, dangerous opposition forward line where all our defenders are isolated and exposed. Just terrible, terrible structure and game plan. I'm not exaggerating when I say league-worst. Structurally, there isn't a team in the comp who does it worse than we do.

Hope that helps. Don't feel bad for missing it, I was barely paying attention after the first half. It was just about the lowest ebb I can remember since we were pummeled by the Dockers in 2004.

 

[TradeDraft]

Do agree we seem to have a Lack of On-Field Leadership as if we are Down we never seem to come out of it

 

[TradeDraft]

4. Goldsack tried his hardest, as always. Certainly far from our worst, but at the same time, not a star by any stretch. Just a solid trier. Didn't disgrace himself.

That could be said about lot of out Players

 

[lenny20]

That could be said about lot of out Players

Sadly, not that many - not enough effort across the board, and we certainly don't have the skill, poise or tactical nous to cover for a lack of effort!

 

[Lefthanded]

1. Shuey mostly. Swung onto Priddis for a bit but then went back to Shuey inexplicably. Priddis was the dominant player on the field but was going head to head against Beams who was also our best. I think however we needed to lock down on Priddis. It was a mistake I reckon. If you stop Priddis, then it limits the effectiveness of Gaff and shuey.

2. Yes Toovey played Darling. Did a typically good job until the 2nd half when the game got blown open. Not Toovey's fault and wasn't directly on Darling at times. In the end Darling gets the points, but was an impossible job to stop any Eagles forward given the ease and quantity of the Eagles entries.

3. Williams didn't really have an opponent given the fact Eagles have no small forward. Had some responsibility for the likes of Cripps and that. Kinda didn't get into the game really and would've liked to see him thrown into the middle onto Gaff to try and shut him down.

4. Goldsack was one of our better tacklers as usual and did good wherever he played. We used him predominantly down back where he held up and stopped a few goals. Then swung forward on times to play on Hurn...but then just plugged holes wherever needed. To be honest, he should've started forward on Hurn, and we should've used Reid back considering the amount of Eagles talls.

5. Some word H may have got something, but that's just BF rumour for now. No other injuries that I could see. Caff got a beautiful shiner under his eye.

6. Kennedy was good. Started mostly forward, and reckon he could've been given a bit more on-ball time. But he had a dip. Needs to be a bit cleaner around stoppages, but he is also really slippery. Kicked 2 beautiful goals. Playing the Blair role to a large extent, and showed he is probably better at it.

7. Broomhead started forward on Hurn but showed he has a long way to go defensively. Let Hurn run off him. The majority of the game he played forward and on a wing. I'd like to see him across half back to be honest. His tackling is a feature which is positive, and was again good with ball use apart from one shank kick when he was running at full pelt.

8. Reid improved dramatically and to be honest was our best forward (which doesn't say much). He kicked a goal and set up a Kennedy goal, and his foot skills were good. He went across half back for about 5 minutes and looked solid as well, setting up a few nice rebounds. I'm still an advocate for him across half back. Elliott was good in patches. Tried lifting the team. I reckon he needs to get fitter though. He kicked a brilliant goal at the start of the last within 30 seconds of play, and ran straight off. I'd like to see him stay on when he has some momentum like that.

9. He tried a few things, but in the end we were getting smacked in the middle. There was little we could do. I reckon we would've subbed a tall and played smaller, but Dwyer got injured so that hamstrung Buckley. I would've liked to see us go with a smaller forward line to try and lock it in more. We just had no forward pressure at all.

Thanks Dave, really appreciate your thoughts / summary and response on each point. Interesting comment about Williams to Gaff, I think KM has expressed similar, although more for the future but once we were out of the game could have been a lets try and see if Buckley wasn't willing to do it earlier to give us a chance.

Caff on Shuey seems strange, a lot of the lead up comments on here seemed to think Gaff or Priddis were the best targets. Do you remember who Caff tagged when we played Eagles in Melbourne this year?

 

[Lefthanded]

Keeffe and Frost switched opponents after Keeffe's shaky start.

Thanks Lenny, assume Frost started on Kennedy and Keeffe on Cox / Lycett? Who did Kennedy and Lycett (& to lesser extent Nic Nat) kick their goals on? Frost, Keeffe, other? Were Eagles playing Kennedy, Darling, Lycett & resting ruck all forward?

From memory it was Eagles game in Melbourne that Frost and Brown had injury issues so Goldsack played Kennedy. If Eagles had 4 tall forwards most of the day then assume it was Frost, Keeffe, Goldy & Tooves covering them (until Reid down back for 5 min).

 

[lenny20]

Thanks Lenny, assume Frost started on Kennedy and Keeffe on Cox / Lycett? Who did Kennedy and Lycett (& to lesser extent Nic Nat) kick their goals on? Frost, Keeffe, other? Were Eagles playing Kennedy, Darling, Lycett & resting ruck all forward?

From memory it was Eagles game in Melbourne that Frost and Brown had injury issues so Goldsack played Kennedy. If Eagles had 4 tall forwards most of the day then assume it was Frost, Keeffe, Goldy & Tooves covering them (until Reid down back for 5 min).

Yeah, Keeffe was getting destroyed by Lycett early, and Frost conceded a couple to Kennedy but both were from free kicks, one of which was a very dubious call against Witts. Keeffe spent time on Kennedy and the resting ruck after the first. Godly rotated between a few like McGovern and Lycett after the Keeffe failure, and Tooves stuck with Darling all day. Godly was the pick of the defenders (not saying much), Keeffe was the struggler, and Frost and Tooves we're somewhere in between.

 

[Leigh Lowther]

Considering how many inside 50s WCE had during the first half of the game, we've gotta cut our defense some slack - Forwards always have the advantage over the defenders and a defenders role is to mitigate scoreboard pressure, not to nullify it. Simply put, if WCE are getting it into their forward more often than we are it doesn't matter how good our defenders play they're still going to give up points. Rather whats important right now is we need to focus on winning the ball in the midfield - We barely did it against Port but we didn't do it against Adelaide or West Coast.

We're in a situation where our only ruckmans are both inexperienced and young therefore we're playing at a disadvantage every game until they improve. Sure our midfielders can try and play to the opposition ruckman but thats not an easy task since we have no idea of the setups the opposition midfielders use, we can only match them at best. All we can do at this point is get Grundy and Witts as permanent players and just back them all the way until they can achieve the ability to dominate the hit outs. That will be our catalyst and then our midfield will start to shine once again, there will be less pressure on our defensive half make our defense look better and our forwards will be getting more of the ball which as you'd guess is going to make our forward 50 look better.

So all we can do right now is have faith in Grundy and Witts and follow them as they inch their way up into the ruckman rankings, and everything else will fall into place.


of course there are other flaws in our game, but this highlights our biggest issue as to why we're not playing well. We're not the only club with problems

 

[mike123]

A perfect opportunity to see how Grundy and Witts can handle Cox and NN thrown away

 

[ThisIsJake]

Do agree we seem to have a Lack of On-Field Leadership as if we are Down we never seem to come out of it

Disagree. We have had a fair few performances in which we have regained composure and our leaders have stepped up to take control of the game after a bad patch.

Sydney rd2, West Coast rd 10, Essendon Anzac day, Bulldogs rd 13(i know we didn't end up getting over the line but we did take control of the end of the match), Adelaide two weeks ago is in the same boat and even vs Port Adelaide last week they got in front with all the momentum and we managed to shift it back.

We don't lack leaders, we lack quality. No leader could have won us those games, only some more midfield depth. We have been decimated by injury, and even having our full list at our disposal we were never in contention this year.

 

[Piestration]

Not that the game was worth watching again but I was curious to see why the free kick count was so one sided. So I watched the online replay and I don't know if anyone else has tried it but you can select the free kick points in the game. Very interesting to see the decisions given and who payed them. Although we did lay some reckless tackles I thought Umpire Shyit was very quick on the whistle and responsible for 85% of the calls even when he wasn't the closest on field ump. Hopefully he gets a rest for a month with burnt out lips.

 

[SuperSub17]

Not that the game was worth watching again but I was curious to see why the free kick count was so one sided. So I watched the online replay and I don't know if anyone else has tried it but you can select the free kick points in the game. Very interesting to see the decisions given and who payed them. Although we did lay some reckless tackles I thought Umpire Shyit was very quick on the whistle and responsible for 85% of the calls even when he wasn't the closest on field ump. Hopefully he gets a rest for a month with burnt out lips.

Yeah I just had a look at the first quarter on the replay. That umpiring is absolutely atrocious. Of their 10 frees maybe 4 or 5 at best were there.

Just ridiculous hometown umpiring.

 

[RobbyTMagpies]

1. shuey got 18 of 27 free kicks for ducking
2. the free kick count was 27-10... few of ours were marks anyway.
3. Goldsack got punched in the face but Natinui, instead of a free kick it was play on which led to a goal
4. Umpires need to be held accountable, fine them $500 per bad call.
5. If the opposition team decides to milk high frees, kick them in the neck real hard (make them earn it)