Gary Dempsey Vs Simon Madden

[Procrastinator35]

The battle of the big men & the 2 Giants of their ruck craft, who stand head & shoulders above their peers ....Honorable mentions go out to Big Nic & Polly.

Gary Dempsey: (Footscray 1967-1978; Nth.Melb 1979-1984.) 329 games, 144 goals.

Dempsey was a master of his craft & the best contested pack-mark & reader of the ball in flight, there has ever been (150+ marks, 14 seasons in a row)....He first captained the Dogs in 1971/72 as a 22 year old, winning 6 best & fairests & a Brownlow Medal in 1975. Before moving to North in 1979, a year in which he also won the B & F....It was during his time at North where Dempsey's ruck-work & around-the-ground play, reigned supreme. Dempsey still holds the record for the most Brownlow votes of any player in VFL/AFL history....In 1982, he recorded an incredible 952 hit-outs. A true Goliath.

Simon Madden: (Essendon 1974-1992) 378 games, 575 goals.

Madden was the best ruckman/forward the game has ever produced....Equally as adept in the goal-square as he was at home out in the middle, Madden often took many towering marks & kicked swags of goals when his side needed him most; kicking bags of 4 or more on an incredible 44 occasions....He led the Bombers to the 1984/1985 premierships out of the middle, where the Hawks had no answer to him.....Madden captained the Bombers in 1980/81 as a 22 year old, also winning 4 best & fairests in his time there.

 

[Doss]

Actually a really interesting and worthy poll.

Only thing that will hamper it is I doubt many on here have many memories of either. Especially Dempsey.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Actually a really interesting and worthy poll.

Only thing that will hamper it is I doubt many on here have many memories of either. Especially Dempsey.

Yep....Been thinking about this one for a while now. Was lucky & blessed enough to have seen them both at their peaks.

 

[Gone Critical]

The battle of the big men & the 2 Giants of their ruck craft, who stand head & shoulders above their peers ....Honorable mentions go out to Big Nic & Polly.

Gary Dempsey: (Footscray 1967-1978; Nth.Melb 1979-1984.) 329 games, 144 goals.

Dempsey was a master of his craft & the best contested pack-mark & reader of the ball in flight, there has ever been (150+ marks, 14 seasons in a row)....He first captained the Dogs in 1971/72 as a 22 year old, winning 6 best & fairests & a Brownlow Medal in 1975. Before moving to North in 1979, a year in which he also won the B & F....It was during his time at North where Dempsey's ruck-work & around-the-ground play, reigned supreme. Dempsey still holds the record for the most Brownlow votes of any player in VFL/AFL history....In 1982, he recorded an incredible 952 hit-outs. A true Goliath.

Simon Madden: (Essendon 1974-1992) 378 games, 575 goals.

Madden was the best ruckman/forward the game has ever produced....Equally as adept in the goal-square as he was at home out in the middle, Madden often took many towering marks & kicked swags of goals when his side needed him most; kicking bags of 4 or more on an incredible 44 occasions....He led the Bombers to the 1984/1985 premierships out of the middle, where the Hawks had no answer to him.....Madden captained the Bombers in 1980/81 as a 22 year old, also winning 4 best & fairests in his time there.

Interesting poll. If I was to rate the ruckmen of my of the 60s-80's it would go

1 Nicholls
2 Farmer
3 Dempsey
4 Thompson
5 Madden

Moss would have been in contention if he had played longer in the VFL. So I disagree with the head and shoulders bit and the honourable mentions.

 

[Trav 20]

Madden.

Dempsey was a fantastic ruckman who was expert at being a kick behind play and racking up mark after mark, but I value Madden's ability to hit the scoreboard more.

Dempsey also came back from horrific bushfire burns, which makes his feats even more extraordinary. He really was a marking machine.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Interesting poll. If I was to rate the ruckmen of my of the 60s-80's it would go

1 Nicholls
2 Farmer
3 Dempsey
4 Thompson
5 Madden

Moss would have been in contention if he had played longer in the VFL. So I disagree with the head and shoulders bit and the honourable mentions.

Fair enough....Can't say that I saw enough of Polly or Nicholls, other than in finals reels....Hence the honorable mentions. The generation prior to mine raved about em both & even my parents often spoke highly of Big Nick. He was dominant around the time I was 6 or 7, so it's more his legendary reputation I recall.

Dempsey for mine, had no peer between the arcs & was no mug at ruck-craft either....But Madden is hard to pass-up for his versatility in playing the key forward posts....You've got to be able to play the game as well as being a great ruckman. And all the blokes you've mentioned certainly fit the bill.

 

[windyhill]

If Madden wasn't kicking a goal, he was saving one. If he wasn't doing either of these things he was setting one up. Easily the best Essendon footballer I have ever seen. Easily. Dempsey was a champion, but Madden had him covered.

 

[SCRAY72]

Very good poll, kudos to you.

 

[Procrastinator35]

If Madden wasn't kicking a goal, he was saving one. If he wasn't doing either of these things he was setting one up. Easily the best Essendon footballer I have ever seen. Easily. Dempsey was a champion, but Madden had him covered.

Lets not get carried away....Madden has Dempsey covered as a key forward....That's where it starts & ends.

 

[windyhill]

Lets not get carried away....Madden has Dempsey covered as a key forward....That's where it starts & ends.

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[Mofra]

Madden as a forward, as a pure ruckman Dempsey.

In his era I say Dempsey, although in the modern game Madden would be more suited.

 

[Jade]

This is a great poll.

I saw Madden playing, but am too young for Dempsey - so can't really vote.

 

[WN123]

Old enough to have seen plenty of both. Madden was supreme as a Ruckman throughout the 80's and it wasn't because of his forward work. His body use and ability to hit to advantage was unsurpassed during that period. The 575 goals he kicked was the cherry on top.
Having said that I think Dempsey was the same during the 70's. The best tap ruckman and then would drop back and play a kick behind play and mark everything.
These two were the best tap ruckman I have seen and also the best marks of any ruckman I have seen.
I only really saw the end of Polly Farmer and Nicholls.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Old enough to have seen plenty of both. Madden was supreme as a Ruckman throughout the 80's and it wasn't because of his forward work. His body use and ability to hit to advantage was unsurpassed during that period. The 575 goals he kicked was the cherry on top.
Having said that I think Dempsey was the same during the 70's. The best tap ruckman and then would drop back and play a kick behind play and mark everything.
These two were the best tap ruckman I have seen and also the best marks of any ruckman I have seen.
I only really saw the end of Polly Farmer and Nicholls.

Pretty well my thoughts exactly....Plenty of good ruckmen around these past 2 decades, but none of em seem able to have sustained a high enough caliber of performance for any great length of time....Whereas, Dempsey & Madden dominated the comp for well over a decade & a half.

Mind you....We are talking bona-fide champions here, & not just a 3-5 year flash-in-the-pan.

 

[Gone Critical]

Pretty well my thoughts exactly....Plenty of good ruckmen around these past 2 decades, but none of em seem able to have sustained a high enough caliber of performance for any great length of time....Whereas, Dempsey & Madden dominated the comp for well over a decade & a half.

Mind you....We are talking bona-fide champions here, & not just a 3-5 year flash-in-the-pan.

In that era I think you need to include Len Thompson in the discussion. Had great battles with Nicholls but even more so with Dempsey. Also stands the test of time with longevity. Thompson was the first of the 6'6" mobile ruckmen who palmed beautifully then followed up winning the ball on the ground. Was more an attacking goal scorer than Dempsey who specialised in the kick behind the play marking barrier. The Thompson Dempsey rivalry was massive in the 70's

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I can see arguments on both sides, two outstanding players. As has been said, Dempsey was a superb tap ruckman and a veritable "markologist" in defence. He had hands like frying pans and dropped nothing. Madden was the new wave ruckman of the 1980s where the game became quicker and ruckmen were required to be more mobile. His ability to go forward and boot goals was a vital cog in the successful Essendon teams in the mid 80s. He could also take a hanger which was impressive for such a big man.

Whenever I really can't split players, I go for "watchability", so I have to lean slightly towards Madden. Good discussion though.

 

[Bobby_]

I'm guessing Simon Madden was like Goldstein/Naitanui rolled into one?
His highlights package is awesome. One of the greatest marks of all time.

 

[Procrastinator35]

In that era I think you need to include Len Thompson in the discussion. Had great battles with Nicholls but even more so with Dempsey. Also stands the test of time with longevity. Thompson was the first of the 6'6" mobile ruckmen who palmed beautifully then followed up winning the ball on the ground. Was more an attacking goal scorer than Dempsey who specialised in the kick behind the play marking barrier. The Thompson Dempsey rivalry was massive in the 70's

Thompson certainly has an impressive record at Collingwood....5 best & fairests & a Brownlow, are a testament to his value & longevity there over 14 seasons (1965-1978).

While he kicked over a 100 goals more than Dempsey, I'm not seeing the same kind of ruck dominance by way of the hit-outs & mark stats over his career, to compare him in the same convo....He also has 95 fewer Brownlow votes.

I only saw Thommo's last 7 seasons; & while impressive, it's more for his gentlemanly demeanor & quiet, soft-spoken voice I remember him for.

To be fair....It's difficult to find any other ruckman to compare with Dempsey's record....Madden gets a gig based upon his phenomenal goal return for a ruckman. Which makes it a close call.

On pure ruck stats alone, over an entire career, Thompson & Nicholls would be in a battle with Madden for second place....But really....It's Dempsey first & daylight second.

 

[Gone Critical]

A

Thompson certainly has an impressive record at Collingwood....5 best & fairests & a Brownlow, are a testament to his value & longevity there over 14 seasons (1965-1978).

While he kicked over a 100 goals more than Dempsey, I'm not seeing the same kind of ruck dominance by way of the hit-outs & mark stats over his career, to compare him in the same convo....He also has 95 fewer Brownlow votes.

I only saw Thommo's last 7 seasons; & while impressive, it's more for his gentlemanly demeanor & quiet, soft-spoken voice I remember him for.

To be fair....It's difficult to find any other ruckman to compare with Dempsey's record....Madden gets a gig based upon his phenomenal goal return for a ruckman. Which makes it a close call.

On pure ruck stats alone, over an entire career, Thompson & Nicholls would be in a battle with Madden for second place....But really....It's Dempsey first & daylight second.

i would agree Dempsey is ahead of Thommo but not by much. The state s alone don't tell the full story. Nicholls in particular was a massively influential figure on the ground. One of the greatest captains I have seen and an intimidator of the opposition. Madden, Dempsey and Thommo were less physical players, fairer but not leaders to the same extent and not intimidators.

 

[Procrastinator35]

A

i would agree Dempsey is ahead of Thommo but not by much. The state s alone don't tell the full story. Nicholls in particular was a massively influential figure on the ground. One of the greatest captains I have seen and an intimidator of the opposition. Madden, Dempsey and Thommo were less physical players, fairer but not leaders to the same extent and not intimidators.

It sounds like Nicholls is clearly the best leader of the 4....And his record of Captaining & coaching the Blues to premierships would suggest you're right.

But Nicholls was alot shorter in stature than the other 3. His 189cm frame, meant he had to be brutally physical in order to compete....But as we know; He was built like an ox, with the widest shoulders & hips I've seen on a footy field....And at 105 kgs, he more than matches the other 3 in the weight stakes.

The other difficulty being that we don't have the stats as yet, for Nicholls first 8 seasons: (1957-1964) of his phenomenal 18 season career. But for the 10 we do, his marking stats are poor compared to the other 3, which - given his deficiency in height - is to be expected. Although his hit-out wins are most impressive.

My memories of Dempsey are of a totally dominant ruckman, both in the square & around the ground, who reigned supreme....The sheer volume of dominance of his pack marking - over his entire career - is what clearly stands out & sticks in my mind....Madden certainly compares in this context for his aerial dominance up forward.

 

[The Blue Baggers]

My memory of Dempsey is he played a lot a kick behind the play taking his marks across half back

Madden would push forward and kick goals

Both great ruckman but Madden was for mine the better all round player

 

[Procrastinator35]

Some Dempsey highlights here:



Probably the best known highlight of Madden's marking abilities: