Grant Thomas

[boncer34]

Just wondering what St Kilda supporters really think of him? Obviously you ask anyone from any other club and you hear how ******** he is and personally I think you guys should've already won a flag and if you dont in the next 2 years questions probably have to be asked. But what do you guys rekon? Is he the real deal or is he holding you guys back? Not looking for abuse here just a general idea of how you guys feel.

 

[Axcellence]

He's probably 2nd best coach in Saints history after Allan Jeans.

And otherwise as well, he got the team from where it was in 2000-01 to where it is now. Tell me how many other coaches have done that?

 

[narthola_04]

He's probably 2nd best coach in Saints history after Allan Jeans.

And otherwise as well, he got the team from where it was in 2000-01 to where it is now. Tell me how many other coaches have done that?

I think people forget that a lot of things have to go your way to win the flag, only one team does it each year. Noone expects a team to walk into their first finals campaign and win the flag, but somehow those expectations have been planted on us. People forget we've only played two seasons of finals, we went from 10th in 03 to 3rd in 04.

As a fan who sat through crap including Tim Watson (wtf!) and a 'master coach' who played golf instead of turning up to training and club functions i'm bloody happy to have a coach who loves the saints as much as i do. People who stick the boots in should get down to training and have a chat to GT, the way he is portrayed in the media baffles me.

He's not in the best 5 game day coaches out there, we know that but we also know that he's aware of his faults and i'm very excited about our new assistants this year! very happy with those changes in the offseason.

 

[Kildonan]

St Kilda's 1997 Grand Finalist team had been decimated by Tim Watson. He took what was essentially our grand finalist team and left when he had coached them to the wooden spoon. Watson frequently overruled our recruiting officer and our squad was in bad shape.

Tim Watson’s resignation late in 2000 was the trigger for a changing of the guard across the board, and Andrew Plympton followed suit by stepping down as President after a reign, which had seen the Club’s financial situation turned around completely.

Late 2000 / early 2001, flush with all this money, incoming President, Rod Butterss, and his administration were able to score a coup by signing Malcolm Blight as coach. He was reluctant at first, but committed himself after officials and a few young stars flew up to the Gold Coast and met with him. On Malcolm’s advice the club initiated trade deals that secured the services of Aaron Hamill, Fraser Gehrig, Steve Lawrence, Craig Callaghan, Matthew Capuano and other fresh blood into the team. The priority pick and first draft pick netted us Nick Riewoldt and Justin Koschitzke.

The “Class” of 2001. Five years is a long time in Football
7:23:36 AM Tue 28 February, 2006
Allan Grant

Malcolm Blight was recruited in the off season, and given his record, there were huge expectations. The list had been pruned and with significant new additions to the list many pundits had us firing on all cylinders. Respected columnist Rohan Connolly had us in the eight when he wrote “There’s not much doubt that most eyes will be on St Kilda’s progress after a recruiting splurge the likes of which has not been seen for decades.”

Robert Walls wrote “New recruits, plenty of dough, lots of hype and of course Malcolm Blight is a sure fired recipe to lift the Saints. Just how high and for how long, only time will tell”.

Dermott Brereton was more circumspect when he wrote, “The landscape has changed at Moorabbin and they will be better. But monumental ascendancy into the eight by seasons end just will not happen”.


One of the amazing facts of the pre 2001 season was the $1.90 being offered by Sportsbook about the Saints making the Final 8. This price was undoubtedly influenced by the recruitment of Blight as well as the 12 new arrivals.

So who had departed and who were the new recruits besides the expected messiah Malcolm Blight? From the 2000 list 15 players had departed. Some had retired, others had moved on to other clubs while others drifted into obscurity. They were;

Matthew Carr: To Fremantle where he is still playing well.
Sam Cranage: To Carlton as part of the Aaron Hamill deal.
Joe McLaren: Off to the Roos where he was to play a few more AFL games.
David Sierakowski: To the Eagles
Darryl Wakelin: To the Power where he was to become a Premiership player.
Fred Campbell: Unknown
Damien Monkhorst: To a brief sojourn in minor football
Ben Thompson: Retired
Tony Brown: To the SANFL
Jason Heatley: Bobbed up in the Tasmanian VFL team
Kurt Heazlewood: Unknown
Gavin Mitchell: Did he return to the West?
Murray Pitts: Unknown
Steven Sziller: To the Tigers for a brief extension of his career.
Shane Wakelin: Delisted and on his way to the Pies.

The arrivals were expected to add enough to the Saints firepower to have us in contention for a finals berth come late August. They were:

Craig Callaghan: From the Dockers and expected to add much needed grunt.
Matthew Capuano: It was hoped he would free up Spider and allow him to spend more time up forward.
Fraser Gehrig: Coming home after success with the Eagles.
Aaron Hamill: To the Saints after his well publicised spat with “Jack” Elliott.
Steven Lawrence: To his Dad’s club after some up and down years with the Lions.
Brett Moyle: From the Rookie list.
Mark Gale: Ex Docker.
Justin Koschitzke: Number 2 in the national draft.
Robert Powell: From the Tigers.
Nick Riewoldt: Number 1 in the national draft
Daniel Wulf: Taken in the national draft
Brett Voss: Picked up in the pre season draft from the Lions.

The Rookies in 2001 were, Justin Berry, Chris Oliver, Mark Wittison and Stephen Milne.

So what happened in 2001? Perhaps the events of 2001 are best summed up by Rowan Connoly when he wrote pre season 2002, “ Nothing that happens to the Saints in 2002 could possibly be more surprising than the events of the past disastrous year. The Saints have lacked class, application and discipline. Turning that around won’t be easy for the AFL’s greenest coaching panel.”

We as supporters entered 2001 with a sense of euphoria. We had lured the guru Blight to Moorabbin and had picked up the two top recruits. We had strengthened our list with a group of players expected to add strength and versatility to a previous good but unsupported nucleus. 2001 proved that confidence is one thing, luck is another but the most important thing to understand is that nothing is certain, anything can go wrong and that opportunities must be taken when they are offered.

The players who didn’t survive into 2002 were Barry Hall, Sean Charles, Jason Trianides, Mark Gale, Robert Powell, Damien Ryan, Matthew Young, Tim Elliott, Brett Knowles and Ben Walton.

From the list of 2001 the players gearing up to represent the Saints in 2006 are Justin Peckett, Aaron Hamill, Andrew Thompson, Lenny Hayes, Max Hudghton, Fraser Gehrig, Nick Riewoldt, Brett Voss, Justin Koschitzke, Jason Blake, Steven Baker, Rob Harvey and Troy Schwarze. It would be remiss of me not to add Stephen Milne from the 2001 rookie list!

This nucleus of experience will be the base of the Saints push for the 2006 flag. A lot does happen in five years of football, 2001 is light years in the past. Go Saints 2006.

Finishing last had been a degrading experience and the club were desperate to improve their fortunes. There was a feeling that two Victorian clubs were to be culled from the competition and Butterss was trying to ensure that
St Kilda, a foundation member of the AFL, was not going to be one of them.

Blight’s coaching stint ended controversially 15 weeks into the season after it was decided that his commitment was not commensurate with the St Kilda committee’s expectations nor the huge salary they were paying him.

Grant Thomas became “caretaker coach” while they searched for a replacement. At that stage, (Round 16, 2001) the Saints had lost 41 of their last 49 games.

Grant Thomas empowered the recruiting officer, John Beveridge, to use his own judgement.
Trades: Heath Black(Fremantle) for pick #17, Trent Knobel (Brisbane) for pick #45, Draft pick #13 for Barry Hall and Draft pick #53.
Pre-Season Draft: #1 Brett Voss (Brisbane)
National Draft Selections:#2 Luke Ball, #5 Xavier Clarke, 13 Nick Dal Santo, #21 Matt Maguire, #37 Leigh Montagna, #49 Josh Houlihan

In 2002, after deciding that they could find no-one better, GT was appointed as the Coach. The team had finished 16th and 15th in its last two seasons. This year St Kilda suffered tragic injuries to many of the key senior players and were forced to play kids as replacements for these. The squad was improving but the results were invisible because of the loss of the senior players. St Kilda again finished second last (5 wins, 1 draw), having missed out on a priority pick by half a game – this indicated that despite the dismal performance, we were trying to win rather than collect highly ranked recruits. This is the year that Carlton were penalised their priority pick and first 2 rounds draft picks for repeated salary cap infringements. St Kilda initially had pick #3 as their first pick, this became pick #1 after the penalties were put in place.
Trades: Draft picks #6 and #22 for Peter Everitt, Luke Penny for Draft pick #17, Barry Brooks for Draft picks #6 and #31.
National Draft Selections: #1 Brendon Goddard, #22 Matthew Ferguson, #46 Leigh Fisher.

In 2003 the Saints had a break-even year (11 wins, 11 losses) with wins over highly ranked Adelaide and Brisbane. After the win against Brisbane we had a drop in form. Injuries to a few key defenders showed up our lack of depth. The improvement being shown by all players but especially the younger brigade augured well for the future. The Saints finished the season with four impressive wins and a narrow loss to Geelong. After the season they traded for depth.

In 2004 the Saints started like a bull at a gate, winning the Wizard Cup, then going on to win the first ten in a row of the H&A season. There was a mid-season slump followed by a recovery that saw them fail by a goal in making an appearance in the Grand Final. The early season success focused a lot of attention on the Saints. For the first time since 97/98 they became the hunted. They had a long season of intensity and gained finals experience. After the season they again traded for depth whilst gaining the services of a young gun in Andrew McQualter.

In 2005 the Saints were preseason favourites for the flag, but the first half of the season was dominated by injuries. Just past the half way mark of the season, St Kilda remained out of the top eight and many had decided that they couldn't figure in the finals. They proceded to win 8 of the next 9 H&A games, their only defeat being against Fremantle at Subiaco with a kick after the siren. That game saw a number of players injured and was contraversial due to remarks made supposedly by one of the umpires officiating the match. They played the qualifying final in Adelaide against Adelaide FC and won, then returned to Melbourne with a week off before playing Sydney in the preliminary final. Sydney overran the Saints in the final quarter. St Kilda recruited youth and a mature VFL ruckman, Michael Rix.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Great post. StKildonan you really gotta become a journo or something. (Although seeing as you know something about footy, you're probably over-qualified...)

 

[Kildonan]

Grant Thomas's Coaching Record:

2001 - 7 games 1 win (14%)
2002 - 22 games 5 wins 1 draw (24%)
2003 - 22 games 11 wins (50%)
2004 - 25 games 17 wins (68%)
2005 - 24 games 15 wins (62.5%)


Note that the true measure of Grant Thomas's coaching (or influence) on St Kilda cannot be measured just in the improved on-field performance.

He has changed the "culture" of the club. He has given the players a belief in themselves and he has developed the players in more ways than just their footballing ability.

He has won the respect of the playing list because he not only tells it how it is but backs his players to the hilt. He gives them "ownership" of their own futures.

He has done a fantastic job to this point in time because he has addressed the issues on and off the field that needed to be sorted out. The players would walk through walls for him and he'd do the same for them.
Much to people's chagrin he is big on corporate speak and one of the big buzzwords is empowerment. He wants the players to be able to take charge. If there is a loose player in defence, he wants the players to recognise it - to not wait until they are moved back there by him (which may be why some feel that he is not doing enough in the coaching box). His coaching ethos is based on a very successful past coach. His belief is that the normal (accepted) system of Back/Midfield/Fwd coaches isn't ideal. He is of the belief that there are 3 separate parts to the game (regardless of where the ball is) Defensive (they have the ball) Offensive (we have the ball) and Neutral (umpire has the ball, or loose/contested ball) in this situation we are setting up a structure to win the ball - offence. The coaches work together in the box, rather than focussing on their separate part of the game, and continually throw up suggestions on Structure/Match-ups to GT.

It's tactically that people see as his major weakness but when asked to cite where he has performed poorly, at most the protagonists can come up with are one or two moments in a season and usually the actions suggested were not credible due to other requirements / problems.

 

[Kildonan]

Great post. StKildonan you really gotta become a journo or something. (Although seeing as you know something about footy, you're probably over-qualified...)

Thanks MSG.

 

[boncer34]

Thanks for this guys it has really opened my eyes up in relation the him. I still think you should've beaten Sydney and perhaps if you had a better "match" day coach then you would've been in the GF. However he does deserve more credit then I originally thought.

 

[kosi_23]

Yeah we shouldve beaten Sydney for sure

 

[sainter]

Thanks for this guys it has really opened my eyes up in relation the him. I still think you should've beaten Sydney and perhaps if you had a better "match" day coach then you would've been in the GF. However he does deserve more credit then I originally thought.

Possibly but do you really think the result would have been any different had Kevin Sheedy, Mick Malthouse or Denis Pagan been coaching us? And when answering please bear in mind that 6 of our starting 22 were not available for that preliminary final.

 

[Kildonan]

Thanks for this guys it has really opened my eyes up in relation the him. I still think you should've beaten Sydney and perhaps if you had a better "match" day coach then you would've been in the GF. However he does deserve more credit then I originally thought.

We could have had Malthouse, Sheedy, Pagan, and Matthews in the box, it wouldn't have changed a thing. The players were stuffed, we'd lost our ruck, Luke Ball was on the bench with OP or limping half paced about trying vainly. We just didn't have the fit players left to halt Sydney.

In fact, I doubt that any of those coaches would have got them to the prelim in the first place.

"perhaps if you had a better "match" day coach then you would've been in the GF" is a falacy. GT has the match day skills in spades. Don't rely on popular opinion, decide things for yourself by analysing moves and asking yourself why that St Kilda player is there when it looks as if the opposition have failed to man up someone. How did Milne get free? Koschitzke taking a mark in the forward 50 (where's his opponent?) It happens all the time - just few people are smart enough to notice.

Thomas is a master at moving key opposition players away from where they want to be - especially key defenders.

The official Saints site has been updated, this is an excerpt:

Grant Thomas began coaching at St Kilda Football Club in Round 16 in 2001. Now in his fifth full season at the helm, Grant Thomas became only the third St Kilda coach to reach the 100-game milestone in last season’s preliminary final. The other two men to have achieved this feat – Stan Alves and Allan Jeans – both guided the Saints to the Grand Final, with the latter tasting premiership glory. Under Thomas, the Saints have played an attacking, fast flowing football that has made them one of the most exciting teams in the AFL to watch. In the past two consecutive years, the Saints have come within touching distance of a Grand Final berth and have finished 3rd. The Club’s published aim is to finish in the Top 4 and to be a great team. If Thomas continues to deliver on this surely he will steer the Saints to the success they crave.

 

[moosha]

Thomas under pressure

Talking to a well connected bloke the other day who believes Grant Thomas has been told to deliver this year or will be given marching orders.
WHat do people think of this, by all reports the bloke is a great motivator but not much of a coach.
I for one have never been a fan, and no several people that will not be members agian until he is gone.
Does any one rate him? I think we would have seen sucsess with some one like Eade at the helm.
The other rumour was he has somthing pretty big over rod butters, so possibly the answer would be them both going? How long can we wait with the current list before we no longer have the ablility to achieve the ultimate?

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Re: Thomas under pressure

I think we would have seen sucsess with some one like Eade at the helm.

No chance in hell. Thommo is better tactically than Eade, just watch round 14 vs Bulldogs. The best coaching performance I've ever seen.

Thommo does make mistakes, but he doesn't repeat them (eg: double teaming Scott Wset after he cut us up in '04, letting Riewoldt run around on a wing after struggling with physical pressre at CHF, playing Kosi as a ruckman drifting forward so more pressure would be take off Gehrig, and we did better in the ruck). GT is treated savagely by the press because he isn't a media darling. The one's the media like are the ones who open up and tell the media everything about the team, are interviewed often, and treat the media with more respect.

GT doesn't give a crap about the media, so they get their revenge by making things up and warping idiot's minds who are incapable of forming an opinion of their own by themselves.

If we had your boring old Wallace/Eade type coach who does everything conventionally, loves the media and copies other coaches we'd still be struggling for a spot in the finals.

Coaches copy other good coaches. GT introduced a leadership group, now I don't think there's a single team without one, GT introduced the rotating captain, Roos copied but put his own little twist on it and is praised for thinking of such a brilliant idea. GT even started the overseas training camp, as opposed to the overseas drinking contest, every club that can afford to is now doing that as well. He's also gone into a new level of player management that no coach before him has reached.

The good coaches of the (recent) past (Sheedy, Malthouse, Pagan) are all out of date now. They don't have the players respect and trust. They just go out, yell a bit, tell the players where to run and who to kick to, get their pay-check and leave. GT goes out of his way to make sure the players are comfortable at St Kilda and with their role in the team. Both Aussie Jones and Fraser Gehrig were on the verge of quitting in 2002, but GT got them in the right mindset, and they produced the best footy of their careers.
Anyone who is a negative influence on the other players is out. Everitt is a prime example of this. Certainly a great player, but he's an absolute moron, and would be a shocking role model for the young guys at Hawthorn.

I'm very happy with GT at the helm, and certainly wouldn't want anyone else.

 

[Kildonan]

My sentiments exactly Mad-Saint-Guy

 

[karnaby]

Re: Thomas under pressure

The other rumour was he has somthing pretty big over rod butters, so possibly the answer would be them both going?

Maaate, that's old news. Your buddy hasn't been keeping you in the loop, GT has got photos (Sshhh) don't tell anyone tho.

Maybe you'd best tell the "... several people that will not be members agian until he is gone." that they're being petty tw ats. If they truly supported the club they'd still back it financially & hope for the best rather than try to white ant the coach. Maybe it's time you went back to TBV & contemplated how bad life really will be when the Saints do win the flag.

 

[sammm]

Re: Thomas under pressure

No chance in hell. Thommo is better tactically than Eade, just watch round 14 vs Bulldogs. The best coaching performance I've ever seen.

Thommo does make mistakes, but he doesn't repeat them (eg: double teaming Scott Wset after he cut us up in '04, letting Riewoldt run around on a wing after struggling with physical pressre at CHF, playing Kosi as a ruckman drifting forward so more pressure would be take off Gehrig, and we did better in the ruck). GT is treated savagely by the press because he isn't a media darling. The one's the media like are the ones who open up and tell the media everything about the team, are interviewed often, and treat the media with more respect.

GT doesn't give a crap about the media, so they get their revenge by making things up and warping idiot's minds who are incapable of forming an opinion of their own by themselves.

If we had your boring old Wallace/Eade type coach who does everything conventionally, loves the media and copies other coaches we'd still be struggling for a spot in the finals.

Coaches copy other good coaches. GT introduced a leadership group, now I don't think there's a single team without one, GT introduced the rotating captain, Roos copied but put his own little twist on it and is praised for thinking of such a brilliant idea. GT even started the overseas training camp, as opposed to the overseas drinking contest, every club that can afford to is now doing that as well. He's also gone into a new level of player management that no coach before him has reached.

The good coaches of the (recent) past (Sheedy, Malthouse, Pagan) are all out of date now. They don't have the players respect and trust. They just go out, yell a bit, tell the players where to run and who to kick to, get their pay-check and leave. GT goes out of his way to make sure the players are comfortable at St Kilda and with their role in the team. Both Aussie Jones and Fraser Gehrig were on the verge of quitting in 2002, but GT got them in the right mindset, and they produced the best footy of their careers.
Anyone who is a negative influence on the other players is out. Everitt is a prime example of this. Certainly a great player, but he's an absolute moron, and would be a shocking role model for the young guys at Hawthorn.

I'm very happy with GT at the helm, and certainly wouldn't want anyone else.

you forgot he started the community camp concept. went to warrnambool i think in his first full year as coach. In his 2nd year, the AFL broguht in the concept.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Re: Thomas under pressure

you forgot he started the community camp concept. went to warrnambool i think in his first full year as coach. In his 2nd year, the AFL broguht in the concept.

I did remember that, but I wasn't positive it was the first one. (Had a great time then! I got the first photo known to man in which GT was smiling!)

 

[sainter]

Former Geelong great Steve Hocking has rejoined the club in a full time capacity. Hocking, who has spent the past two seasons as the chairman of the Cats' match committee, will fill the new role of Training Services Manager

http://saints.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=afldisplay&articleid=245150

Keep up the good work GT!

 

[Axcellence]

Delete

 

[moosha]

Re: Thomas under pressure

The good coaches of the (recent) past (Sheedy, Malthouse, Pagan) are all out of date now. They don't have the players respect and trust........... Both Aussie Jones and Fraser Gehrig were on the verge of quitting in 2002, but GT got them in the right mindset, and they produced the best footy of their careers.

to say somthing like that about some of the greatest coaches ever is just stuipidity, those type of blokes are respected by all and are absolute greats of the game.
Also good to see that aussie jones played the max. amount of AFL games he had the ability to play.
Any way i will definatley be signing up agian this year, and i hope we win one soon, thomas or no thomas

 

[della]

I have no doubt if u guys had no injuries last year you would of won the flag and i feel that as a Cats fan you guys for sure are the team to beat and i am not confident of beating u guys at full strength even though we match up ok youre tall forwards scare the ******** out of me.

In regards to Thomas, i feel he is a very good communicator it seems, has respect of most players but i feel when u guys have a few injuries he fails to adapt enough and struggles with key moves during the game.
Look if u have all the cattle on the park he doesn't need to do much coaching, just watch the lips of lethal tape and he barley saids a word during thoise 2 grand finals against the pies, why would u when u have such good cattle out there.

I know most of u guys supported Blighty being axed but that year was just a write off as i remember at one stage u guys havin only 26 players to chose from and it was only Rnd 8, i am one who feels that if Blight had stayed on in his 2nd year and saw the talents of Reidwolt, kosi, Gehrig fit and co he would of got excited and possibly won u a flag by now, actually i am very confident u guys would of had at least 1 flag under blight. He did seem to lose interest at times but he was different no doubt but he had the runs on the board i feel to have at least been given the chance to finish his contract esp after u went to all the trouble to pay him 2 million over 2 years.

anyway thats just my thought, u guys r the team to beat but if Thomas does fail this year then the pressure is on for him to be retained no doubt next year.

 

[sammm]

anyway thats just my thought, u guys r the team to beat but if Thomas does fail this year then the pressure is on for him to be retained no doubt next year.

he has a contract until end of 2007. doubt very much they will sack him before the end of his contract. A rider on that though is if they don't make the finals this year, then there might be a possibility.

 

[Kildonan]

I know most of u guys supported Blighty being axed but that year was just a write off as i remember at one stage u guys havin only 26 players to chose from and it was only Rnd 8, i am one who feels that if Blight had stayed on in his 2nd year and saw the talents of Reidwolt, kosi, Gehrig fit and co he would of got excited and possibly won u a flag by now, actually i am very confident u guys would of had at least 1 flag under blight. He did seem to lose interest at times but he was different no doubt but he had the runs on the board i feel to have at least been given the chance to finish his contract esp after u went to all the trouble to pay him 2 million over 2 years.

anyway thats just my thought, u guys r the team to beat but if Thomas does fail this year then the pressure is on for him to be retained no doubt next year.

Just so you know. Blight had virtually a full list to select from, it was the next year that the Saints suffered numerous injuries to key personnel - and it was Grant Thomas who had to cope with those injuries. The positive of this though is that it fast-tracked many of our talented youthful recruits as they had to play whether they were ready or not.

 

[scottydeewah]

I think his biggest fault is the rotating captaincy. Didnt work last year I think it crippled St Nick to a point it was sometimes VERY painful to watch. You can blame injuries but it had more to do with the weight on his shoulders not a bung one. Okay so he may be outcoached sometimes but who isnt. Really though he made a mistake last year with St Nick and giving it to ball is a BIG risk in my opinion.

I always think the take on blightly is interesting. Lot of falsehoods I think.

 

[Kildonan]

I always think the take on blightly is interesting. Lot of falsehoods I think.

Such as ...??