Universal Love Greatness

[jonbe54]

I spoke to Matty Lappin at our VFL final and asked him the same question, he said it was brought up in the box but not acted upon.
I said so Mick ignored it and he just went silent.

And there it is, inside mail.

Mick as good as deliberately threw the 2011 flag in a fit of childish spite.

Pathetic and unforgiveable.

 

[CFC2010]

I spoke to Matty Lappin at our VFL final and asked him the same question, he said it was brought up in the box but not acted upon.
I said so Mick ignored it and he just went silent.

Thanks for that Anzacday that's the first time I have heard an explanation from the Club as such.

Still shits me no end how that year ended up.

 

[Eddie Van Halen]

Well if the Seed wants to go down that track he'll find it's a one way street, there are others in the playing group that can fill his role and maybe more so.

The Seed has been a die-hard Collingwood supporter since his first breath. I also believe his great grandfather was also once president?? He's not gonna let anything stand in the way of becoming a champion at the club. We've seen glimpses of how good he can be. I have no doubt that when he's 100% fit and ready to go, he'll be a very good player for us.

 

[jonbe54]

The Seed has been a die-hard Collingwood supporter since his first breath. I also believe his great grandfather was also once president?? He's not gonna let anything stand in the way of becoming a champion at the club. We've seen glimpses of how good he can be. I have no doubt that when he's 100% fit and ready to go, he'll be a very good player for us.

He needs to get his head out of his @rse and stop hanging around with dipsh1ts then.

 

[jackcass]

He needs to get his head out of his @rse and stop hanging around with dipsh1ts then.

The company he's with doesn't predict or dictate his behaviour if things go south. Beams and Shaw were highly respected team mates and I have no issue with any of the remaining listed Pies players socialising with them.

 

[jonbe54]

The company he's with doesn't predict or dictate his behaviour if things go south. Beams and Shaw were highly respected team mates and I have no issue with any of the remaining listed Pies players socialising with them.

The company he's with indicates his head space which is NOT in tune with the club and it's policies.

He is choosing to associate with a player who was so disruptive that he was traded and another who did his best to ream the club at the trade table.

Side by side means EXACTLY that jackass, get with the program or walk.

I've said my last words on the subject.

 

[swiftdog]

The company he's with indicates his head space which is NOT in tune with the club and it's policies.

He is choosing to associate with a player who was so disruptive that he was traded and another who did his best to ream the club at the trade table.

Side by side means EXACTLY that jackass, get with the program or walk.

I've said my last words on the subject.

Players are going to still be mates with old teammates, even if they move to another club. The club telling players who they can and can not spend their time with outside the club is ludicrous and I'll guarantee isn't one of Collingwood's policies.

I think it was Hodge that said in grand final week that Buddy had been sending him texts all week. We hear stories of players contacting players from other clubs that have had a serious injury just to share experience. I'm pretty sure Wellingham was living with Buddy at one stage. Tribalism really only exists among supporters nowadays,

 

[jonbe54]

Players are going to still be mates with old teammates, even if they move to another club. The club telling players who they can and can not spend their time with outside the club is ludicrous and I'll guarantee isn't one of Collingwood's policies.

I think it was Hodge that said in grand final week that Buddy had been sending him texts all week. We hear stories of players contacting players from other clubs that have had a serious injury just to share experience. I'm pretty sure Wellingham was living with Buddy at one stage. Tribalism really only exists among supporters nowadays,

FFS who said anything about banning??

Stop bing so literal.

The simple facts are

When the time comes to choose players EVERYTHING is taken into account and this DEFINITELY includes OUTSIDE behaviour and displayed attitudes.

Nobody needs to be banned it will come down to a simple choice of who wants it most, and one of the critical criteria for that is who wants to give the all for the club?

If you are employed in a corporate position go and ask your boss if you can go out and socialize with a couple of recently dismissed employees with known animosity toward the organization.

You know what he will say??

You'll be bloody lucky if he doesn't fire you on the spot.

 

[Smoky]

If Close actually just stood in the goalsquare and waited until the ball moves through the centre circle or wings before leading... In one clear direction, then he would provide a proper target to aim for.

The way Cloke runs round and round in circles means the kicker has no choice but to put it on top of his head, with 3 opponents hanging off him

 

[swiftdog]

FFS who said anything about banning??

Stop bing so literal.

The simple facts are

When the time comes to choose players EVERYTHING is taken into account and this DEFINITELY includes OUTSIDE behaviour and displayed attitudes.

Nobody needs to be banned it will come down to a simple choice of who wants it most, and one of the critical criteria for that is who wants to give the all for the club?

If you are employed in a corporate position go and ask your boss if you can go out and socialize with a couple of recently dismissed employees with known animosity toward the organization.

You know what he will say??

You'll be bloody lucky if he doesn't fire you on the spot.

It seems to me that you're suggesting that players shouldn't associate with ex team mates. I can guarantee it happens much more than you think.

So giving it all for Collingwood now includes our players completely shutting out Dayne Beams and Heath Shaw? What should we do with Sidebottom and Young? They went to the US with Beams. Swanny went to the US with Dustin Martin, is he not giving it all for the club?

Give it a rest, AFL players are their own little community and friendships form within it regardless of what team each player plays for.

The simple facts are that Bucks is going to choose players to help the club win games of football. I really don't think he gives a shit Seedsman went to have a beer with Shaw and Beams during the offseason.

What about a sales position, or a retail position, or a hospitality position? Would the boss care then? The sporting world is not the corporate world, different culture and one that generally permits people to socialise with whoever they want.

The ultimate question is do you honestly think that Seedsman has hurt his chance of selection next season?

 

[jonbe54]

It seems to me that you're suggesting that players shouldn't associate with ex team mates. I can guarantee it happens much more than you think.

So giving it all for Collingwood now includes our players completely shutting out Dayne Beams and Heath Shaw? What should we do with Sidebottom and Young? They went to the US with Beams. Swanny went to the US with Dustin Martin, is he not giving it all for the club?

Give it a rest, AFL players are their own little community and friendships form within it regardless of what team each player plays for.

The simple facts are that Bucks is going to choose players to help the club win games of football. I really don't think he gives a shit Seedsman went to have a beer with Shaw and Beams during the offseason.

What about a sales position, or a retail position, or a hospitality position? Would the boss care then? The sporting world is not the corporate world, different culture and one that generally permits people to socialise with whoever they want.

The ultimate question is do you honestly think that Seedsman has hurt his chance of selection next season?

Give it a rest yourself sunshine and the sporting world is ABSOLUTELY corprorate - just how old are you anyway???

The simple fact is football in particular and sports in general is PROFESSIONAL and in a team based sport that professionalism means commitment to the club, it's goals and it's sponsors.

Only a child would imagine that associating with people known to have anomosity towards the club would not have a negative effect on the club's veiw of their career prospects.

 

[swiftdog]

Give it a rest yourself sunshine and the sporting world is ABSOLUTELY corprorate - just how old are you anyway???

The simple fact is football in particular and sports in general is PROFESSIONAL and in a team based sport that professionalism means commitment to the club, it's goals and it's sponsors.

Only a child would imagine that associating with people known to have anomosity towards the club would not have a negative effect on the club's veiw of their career prospects.

The business side of things, sure, that could probably be described as corporate. The player's aren't overly concerned with the business-side of things though, they offer sporting ability. You would you describe the janitor of a corporate building in the CBD as being a part of the corporate world? Of course not, he's in the business of cleaning and maintenance. You can describe an AFL club as corporate if you like but the players are sportsman; sportsman have a different set of standards to those in corporate positions. No idea what my age has to do with anything.

Yes, footballers are professional. How has Seedsman not shown commitment to the the club, it's goals and sponsors though? How does one show commitment to the aforementioned?

Well we're all somebody's children. Again, for the most part, it's supporters that hold the "us versus them" attitude that you're displaying here. Why would Beams hold any animosity towards Collingwood by the way? We traded him to his destination of choice and by all reports he discussed the Copeland Trophy situation with Buckley beforehand. Collingwood facilitated his request, why would he have animosity if he got what he wanted? As for Shaw, it did seem as if he didn't want to be traded. Whether he holds a grudge though is anyone's guess (and no, you can't say for sure whether he has any animosity towards the club). At the end of the day, Shaw had been in the game long enough to realise that players get traded and it's simply a part of being an AFL footballer. He seems to be enjoying his time GWS anyway.

Do Beams and Shaw really have "known animosity" (known would suggest that unequivocally these 2 have animosity towards Collingwood and there are no if's, but's or maybe's about it) towards the club? Was it OK for Wellingham to room with Buddy? Should have Sidebottom and Young travelled to the US with Beams? Should have our coach caught up with Adelaide's coach the night before a game? Where do you draw the line for professionalism within a football club?

 

[jonbe54]

The business side of things, sure, that could probably be described as corporate. The player's aren't overly concerned with the business-side of things though, they offer sporting ability. You would you describe the janitor of a corporate building in the CBD as being a part of the corporate world? Of course not, he's in the business of cleaning and maintenance. You can describe an AFL club as corporate if you like but the players are sportsman; sportsman have a different set of standards to those in corporate positions. No idea what my age has to do with anything.

Yes, footballers are professional. How has Seedsman not shown commitment to the the club, it's goals and sponsors though? How does one show commitment to the aforementioned?

Well we're all somebody's children. Again, for the most part, it's supporters that hold the "us versus them" attitude that you're displaying here. Why would Beams hold any animosity towards Collingwood by the way? We traded him to his destination of choice and by all reports he discussed the Copeland Trophy situation with Buckley beforehand. Collingwood facilitated his request, why would he have animosity if he got what he wanted? As for Shaw, it did seem as if he didn't want to be traded. Whether he holds a grudge though is anyone's guess (and no, you can't say for sure whether he has any animosity towards the club). At the end of the day, Shaw had been in the game long enough to realise that players get traded and it's simply a part of being an AFL footballer. He seems to be enjoying his time GWS anyway.

Do Beams and Shaw really have "known animosity" (known would suggest that unequivocally these 2 have animosity towards Collingwood and there are no if's, but's or maybe's about it) towards the club? Was it OK for Wellingham to room with Buddy? Should have Sidebottom and Young travelled to the US with Beams? Should have our coach caught up with Adelaide's coach the night before a game? Where do you draw the line for professionalism within a football club?

Lol you actually swallowed that pap about the Copeland did you? Wow you are a trusting soul.

I don't know what would qaualify for 'known animosity' if deliberately engineering a transfer to the only club sure to give Collingwood a raw deal isn't. You certainly have a rose coloured view of the world sunshine.

In short sunshine I think I'll talk with the grown ups now but don't let that stop you from sucking your thumb and thinking how unfair the world is.

Sayona then, I won't reply in future.

 

[jackcass]

Lol you actually swallowed that pap about the Copeland did you? Wow you are a trusting soul.

I don't know what would qaualify for 'known animosity' if deliberately engineering a transfer to the only club sure to give Collingwood a raw deal isn't. You certainly have a rose coloured view of the world sunshine.

In short sunshine I think I'll talk with the grown ups now but don't let that stop you from sucking your thumb and thinking how unfair the world is.

Sayona then, I won't reply in future.

Make ridiculous statements about who a player may or may not associate with and then personally attack people who express alternate opinions.... hmmmm, yeah, very mature.

 

[jonbe54]

Make ridiculous statements about who a player may or may not associate with and then personally attack people who express alternate opinions.... hmmmm, yeah, very mature.

Ah well jackass if you insist goodbye.

 

[swiftdog]

Lol you actually swallowed that pap about the Copeland did you? Wow you are a trusting soul.

I don't know what would qaualify for 'known animosity' if deliberately engineering a transfer to the only club sure to give Collingwood a raw deal isn't. You certainly have a rose coloured view of the world sunshine.

In short sunshine I think I'll talk with the grown ups now but don't let that stop you from sucking your thumb and thinking how unfair the world is.

Sayona then, I won't reply in future.

Jeez, you really love the "sunshines" don't you? Interesting that you couldn't answer any of my questions to you but I'll let it slide.

I believe Beams had a discussion with Buckley beforehand, yes. I'm not convinced that being 'uncomfortable' with being there is the entire story but frankly I don't care about his reasons for not attending anymore.

The likes of Rockliff and Hanley publicly referring to the 'go home 5' as 'mummy's boys' would classify as animosity to me. Beams publicly thanking Collingwood for their part in his life over the past 6 years or so, in conjunction to getting to his club of choice, doesn't. Again, you're taking the Beams deciding to leave decision as an "us versus them" decision. You can't honestly believe that Brisbane are the only club that was sure to give Collingwood a raw deal in the Beams situation? Most clubs that Beams could have decided to "engineer" a trade to would have set out to give Collingwood some sort of raw deal, it's the nature of the AFL at the moment and you could argue that nature won us a premiership in 2010 (Remember Ball only nominating Collingwood in 2009?).

Out of curiosity, how old do you think I am? How did you come to the conclusion that I think the world is unfair also? I'm aware that players associate with players outside of the club all the time. You seem to take issue with that fact and perceive it to show a lack of commitment to the Collingwood Football Club due to an opinion that Beams and Shaw have animosity towards the club. If anything, you're the one complaining about the state of the AFL world and perceive it as "unfair".

I think you meant 'sayonara' but whatever. I'm not particularly interested in having a conversation with someone who completely ignores answering straightforward questions and has to resort to using juvenile and petty insults (for a lack of a better word), like 'sunshine' and referring to someone as a young child, in place of a coherent argument due to a lack of debating skills.

Not to mention this thread has gone well off track.

 

[Justlokan]

I spoke to Matty Lappin at our VFL final and asked him the same question, he said it was brought up in the box but not acted upon.
I said so Mick ignored it and he just went silent.

very interesting mail and this doesn't surprise me. Mick was prone to blame some players even when they are played out of position. I recall him doing a similar thing to Jason Cloke in 2003 when he was placed at CHF for the Grand final.

Mick's greatest strength (mutual loyalty with a select group of favourites) was also his greatest weakness. Tom Hafey was also like this.

Unfortunately, they were also more likely to get outfoxed by opposition coaches on GF day (MM in 2011 and Tom in 1977). I'll also add West Coast in 1991 when they really should've won that game.

 

[jonbe54]

Jeez, you really love the "sunshines" don't you? Interesting that you couldn't answer any of my questions to you but I'll let it slide.

I believe Beams had a discussion with Buckley beforehand, yes. I'm not convinced that being 'uncomfortable' with being there is the entire story but frankly I don't care about his reasons for not attending anymore.

The likes of Rockliff and Hanley publicly referring to the 'go home 5' as 'mummy's boys' would classify as animosity to me. Beams publicly thanking Collingwood for their part in his life over the past 6 years or so, in conjunction to getting to his club of choice, doesn't. Again, you're taking the Beams deciding to leave decision as an "us versus them" decision. You can't honestly believe that Brisbane are the only club that was sure to give Collingwood a raw deal in the Beams situation? Most clubs that Beams could have decided to "engineer" a trade to would have set out to give Collingwood some sort of raw deal, it's the nature of the AFL at the moment and you could argue that nature won us a premiership in 2010 (Remember Ball only nominating Collingwood in 2009?).

Out of curiosity, how old do you think I am? How did you come to the conclusion that I think the world is unfair also? I'm aware that players associate with players outside of the club all the time. You seem to take issue with that fact and perceive it to show a lack of commitment to the Collingwood Football Club due to an opinion that Beams and Shaw have animosity towards the club. If anything, you're the one complaining about the state of the AFL world and perceive it as "unfair".

I think you meant 'sayonara' but whatever. I'm not particularly interested in having a conversation with someone who completely ignores answering straightforward questions and has to resort to using juvenile and petty insults (for a lack of a better word), like 'sunshine' and referring to someone as a young child, in place of a coherent argument due to a lack of debating skills.

Not to mention this thread has gone well off track.

Goodbye.

 

[jackcass]

Ah well jackass if you insist goodbye.

Pretty boring world you choose for yourself if you surround yourself with people who totally agree with you on all things. Ciao!

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

Sigh. This is pretty much the blueprint Leigh Brown game. And the Kraken lets loose. FOOT CANDY!

 

[Trickster]

Awesome highlights and fairly good summary swift dog with your stats!

I often wonder if Pendles was paid the advantage and the goal he kicked stood in r8 agst Geelong rather than the free going back to Wood whether that may have positively impacted our psyche going into the GF. 1-1 would have been better than 2-0 and I did feel like we were outsiders despite our imposing record that year though as mentioned it was less impressive as the year went on.

With regards to MM yes he made it about himself that year and didn't shelter the team as he should but I'd be gob smacked if he intentionally sabotaged that match by not moving Tarrant to Hawkins. I too personally will always wonder why he never made the move (has anyone read his recent auto-biography and does he make reference to that?) particularly when Jpod went off injured, but I'd suspect it was more to do with stubbornness rather than sabotage.

Let's not forget he was in tears in the prelim the week before and even though he may have had a falling out with Ed and whoever else, I don't think he would have let that impact the possibility of him being known as a 4-time premiership coach.

Though I wasn't born for some, 2011 does go down as a golden opportunity wasted along with 1970 and 1977 -and 1969 and 1973 when we finished top and lost both finals to not even make the GF. I often wonder why we are 'unlucky' but I guess when you have a GF record of 15-27-1 (I think) compared to a team like Hawthorn who are roughly 12-6, there has to be more to it than just luck. I guess Hawthorn were able to overcome all their obstacles this year while for some reason we were not able to in 2011 (and other years).

 

[Krueger]

Pretty boring world you choose for yourself if you surround yourself with people who totally agree with you on all things. Ciao!

The personal insults are the norm when you dont agree with him. Been there done that.

Calling out players for hanging out with ex team mates is ridiculous and a joke. Players are not robots when they can flick a switch and no longer be mates with somebody for no reason.

 

[Anzacday]

I guess Hawthorn were able to overcome all their obstacles this year while for some reason we were not able to in 2011 (and other years).

They had a coach who was pulling in the same direction as the club which would've helped immensely.
Stubbornness would be my guess for not making the move by the way.

 

[jonbe54]

Awesome highlights and fairly good summary swift dog with your stats!

I often wonder if Pendles was paid the advantage and the goal he kicked stood in r8 agst Geelong rather than the free going back to Wood whether that may have positively impacted our psyche going into the GF. 1-1 would have been better than 2-0 and I did feel like we were outsiders despite our imposing record that year though as mentioned it was less impressive as the year went on.

With regards to MM yes he made it about himself that year and didn't shelter the team as he should but I'd be gob smacked if he intentionally sabotaged that match by not moving Tarrant to Hawkins. I too personally will always wonder why he never made the move (has anyone read his recent auto-biography and does he make reference to that?) particularly when Jpod went off injured, but I'd suspect it was more to do with stubbornness rather than sabotage.

Let's not forget he was in tears in the prelim the week before and even though he may have had a falling out with Ed and whoever else, I don't think he would have let that impact the possibility of him being known as a 4-time premiership coach.

Though I wasn't born for some, 2011 does go down as a golden opportunity wasted along with 1970 and 1977 -and 1969 and 1973 when we finished top and lost both finals to not even make the GF. I often wonder why we are 'unlucky' but I guess when you have a GF record of 15-27-1 (I think) compared to a team like Hawthorn who are roughly 12-6, there has to be more to it than just luck. I guess Hawthorn were able to overcome all their obstacles this year while for some reason we were not able to in 2011 (and other years).

Stubborness yes but vindictiveness as well, a spiteful and vengeful man to the nth degree.

If you doubt ferret out some footage of his pressers when some young smart arse reporter asks what he considers an impertinent question.

Firstly there's the dagger eyed haughty 'how dare you address that to me' look.

Then there's the calculating glint of pure malice.

Then the shaft is delivered and the look of satiated cruelty flickers in the depths of his eyes.

Finally the look of total dismissal.

I saw enough of him as a player before he took to coaching, vicious and vindictive then and leopards don't change their spots.

The decision to leave an injured player not only on the field but on a rampaging Hawkins was nothing more or less than a coldly calculated tactic to strike at the heart of the club that had nurtured and shown faith in him for 11 long, long years of list building and off field bullsh1t from his favourites.

 

[swiftdog]

Awesome highlights and fairly good summary swift dog with your stats!

I often wonder if Pendles was paid the advantage and the goal he kicked stood in r8 agst Geelong rather than the free going back to Wood whether that may have positively impacted our psyche going into the GF. 1-1 would have been better than 2-0 and I did feel like we were outsiders despite our imposing record that year though as mentioned it was less impressive as the year went on.

With regards to MM yes he made it about himself that year and didn't shelter the team as he should but I'd be gob smacked if he intentionally sabotaged that match by not moving Tarrant to Hawkins. I too personally will always wonder why he never made the move (has anyone read his recent auto-biography and does he make reference to that?) particularly when Jpod went off injured, but I'd suspect it was more to do with stubbornness rather than sabotage.

Let's not forget he was in tears in the prelim the week before and even though he may have had a falling out with Ed and whoever else, I don't think he would have let that impact the possibility of him being known as a 4-time premiership coach.

Though I wasn't born for some, 2011 does go down as a golden opportunity wasted along with 1970 and 1977 -and 1969 and 1973 when we finished top and lost both finals to not even make the GF. I often wonder why we are 'unlucky' but I guess when you have a GF record of 15-27-1 (I think) compared to a team like Hawthorn who are roughly 12-6, there has to be more to it than just luck. I guess Hawthorn were able to overcome all their obstacles this year while for some reason we were not able to in 2011 (and other years).

Yeah it would be interesting. I still think Geelong would have been good enough to get the job done regardless but that mental edge can never be ruled out. In a similar vein, I don't think that Geelong having the wood over Hawthorn for all those years was necessarily a fluke.

Agree on Mick as well. The 2011 Grand Final is obviously the most famous case but his matchday coaching on that day really wasn't out of the norm for him over his Collingwood coaching career when you think about it. How often over the years did the supporters say "why didn't Mick make this move?" "why didn't Mick do this?" and the most famous one of all, and the reason many of us though we couldn't win a flag under Mick, "Mick doesn't have a plan B". Over much of his career we got frustrated at Mick for not changing up his matchday coaching. The more I come to think of it , did he ever change things up over 2010 and 2011 also? I'm thinking he didn't but the fact was that our plan A was too good for pretty much every team anyway, ain't broke don't fix it and all that. His stubbornness is one of his greatest strengths and also probably his greatest weakness as a coach. On one hand he never second guesses himself and what he's doing (which is what you want in a coach) but on the other hand it's like he refuses to realise when something isn't working. Like you, I think we saw the serious ramifications of that approach in the 2011 Grand Final but I also can't buy that he threw a Grand Final to piss off Eddie. Stagnant matchday coaching is nothing too far out of the ordinary for MM unfortunately. I can't say I've followed Carlton too much lately but does anybody know if he's coaching the same way there?