Opinion Ground zero - what do we have?

[dergert]

We have a damn solid back line if Adams holds up.

Our midfield will only be made exceptional once more class and speed is added.

 

[TempletonTheRat]

Updates:

1. Crozier is nice. Excellent overhead, athletic and great by foot. Anyone who’s had an MCL will tell you it takes time to get back from. Finally looks fit and coming into his own the last 2 weeks.

2. Schache starting to show real promise as a CHF. He’s reasonably weak in the air (not what I expected), but his wheels and his ball use (both hand and foot) are very good. We want him kicking it inside 50, not kicking it to him inside 50.

3. Gowers moves on to the “maybes” list.

FB: Williams Cordy. _________
HB: JJ. Naughton Crozier
C: Richards. Macrae. Hunter
Hf: Mclean. Schache. __________
FF: __________ __________. ___________
R: English. Bont. Libba
IC: _________. _________ __________ ___________

Maybes - Boyd, Daniel, west, Dunkley, wood (body), Adams (body), gowers, lipinski.

Fronk, where do you have Bailey Dale at? He was arguably our most improved last year.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

Updates:

1. Crozier is nice. Excellent overhead, athletic and great by foot. Anyone who’s had an MCL will tell you it takes time to get back from. Finally looks fit and coming into his own the last 2 weeks.

2. Schache starting to show real promise as a CHF. He’s reasonably weak in the air (not what I expected), but his wheels and his ball use (both hand and foot) are very good. We want him kicking it inside 50, not kicking it to him inside 50.

3. Gowers moves on to the “maybes” list.

FB: Williams Cordy. _________
HB: JJ. Naughton Crozier
C: Richards. Macrae. Hunter
Hf: Mclean. Schache. __________
FF: __________ __________. ___________
R: English. Bont. Libba
IC: _________. _________ __________ ___________

Maybes - Boyd, Daniel, west, Dunkley, wood (body), Adams (body), gowers, lipinski.

Any thoughts on Young? Personally I think you have jumped a bit early on Schache. Very poor defensively. The modern game requires this attribute.

 

[go you pups]

Is it too early to declare that we may have another potential ‘A Grader’ in the ranks? Ed Richards looks pretty f**king special to me as a 18 year old. He has the sort of confidence as an 18 year old that I have only seen in Grant, Cooney and Bontempelli in my time.

Can just about add Naughton to that list too

Comes back after 5-6 weeks out, asked to play as a key forward after playing the year in defence up til that point and does it tremendously well. The kid has so much confidence in his ability to beat his opponent and reads the game really well already.

Only 18, yet plays like he's 4-5 years older with a few preseasons under his belt.

 

[fronkalicious]

Any thoughts on Young? Personally I think you have jumped a bit early on Schache. Very poor defensively. The modern game requires this attribute.

Yep, agree that Schache is still a question mark. But we have no one else who has even come close to being able to play that role.

I like young, and am completely comfortable with him developing in the VFL for the next few years. He’s still so young (pardon the pun). He’s a maybe.

 

[fronkalicious]

Fronk, where do you have Bailey Dale at? He was arguably our most improved last year.

I’d keep dale. He’s probably always going to be inconsistent given he can’t win a contested footy, but he’s cheap and has a skill set we don’t have, so why not.

 

[Dogsman16]

I’m real pleased at the quality of our spine going forward. Realistically we could fit all of English, Boyd, Schache, Naughton, Adams and Cordy in the same team, as well as keep an experienced head such as Morris/Trengrove in as well for the short term. Khamis can be the long term replacement for one of those 2.

The middle still projects to be pretty good. Despite losing one of Wallis/Dahlhaus (I predict we lose one out of the two) we still have 4 good inside mids (Bont, Macrae, Libba, McLean) Throw in Dahl/Wallis, West and hopefully our first round pick and our depth should remain solid. The problem is that guys that aren’t up to such as Honey, Webb etc are getting far too much game time (irrespective of how many injuries we have). A cheap mature option such as Anthony Miles should be targeted to play 15-20 games a season to fill the 6th inside mid role.

The flankers/wingers also looks pretty decent. Hunter, JJ, Williams, Crozier, Richards, Daniel, Dale have all at times proven they are up to it.

Small/medium forwards is an issue. Gowers and Dickson are the only two AFL capable players who fit the bill and too often we reward VFL standard mids (Webb, Honey, Dunkley) who play well in the VFL, only for them to spend way to much time up forward at AFL level.

I think 8 or so players should get pretty harsh reviews at the midpoint of the season. They include Trengrove, Roughead, Dahlhaus, Wallis, Johannisen, Dale, Daniel and Wood. Some of this can be directly attributed to injuries, others to poor coaching (Wood and JJ shouldn’t have been pushed forward) and others such as Trengrove, Daniel, Roughead etc need a long hard look in the mirror. We are 4 - 9 not just because of our horrendous injury list but because of the complete drop off of experienced players that I have just listed.

Overall though our list is not bad as some. In 3 years time we still project to have a good team, these are the guys who will be around in 3 years time and where the holes are.

FB: Adams, Trengrove, Crozier
HB: Williams, Cordy, JJ
C: Richards, McLean, Hunter
HF: Bont, Schache, Gowers
FF: Boyd, Naughton, ****
R: English, Macrae, Liberatore

Int: West, Pick 5 (Smith/Rankine) Daniel, Dale, Miles/experienced mid trade, Khamis, Dahl/Wallis,

Edit: if you want to go smaller then obviously Trengrove gets the punt and Naughton can swing forward to back when required.

 

[murphy's twin]

I’m real pleased at the quality of our spine going forward. Realistically we could fit all of English, Boyd, Schache, Naughton, Adams and Cordy in the same team, as well as keep an experienced head such as Morris/Trengrove in as well for the short term. Khamis can be the long term replacement for one of those 2.

The middle still projects to be pretty good. Despite losing one of Wallis/Dahlhaus (I predict we lose one out of the two) we still have 4 good inside mids (Bont, Macrae, Libba, McLean) Throw in Dahl/Wallis, West and hopefully our first round pick and our depth should remain solid. The problem is that guys that aren’t up to such as Honey, Webb etc are getting far too much game time (irrespective of how many injuries we have). A cheap mature option such as Anthony Miles should be targeted to play 15-20 games a season to fill the 6th inside mid role.

The flankers/wingers also looks pretty decent. Hunter, JJ, Williams, Crozier, Richards, Daniel, Dale have all at times proven they are up to it.

Small/medium forwards is an issue. Gowers and Dickson are the only two AFL capable players who fit the bill and too often we reward VFL standard mids (Webb, Honey, Dunkley) who play well in the VFL, only for them to spend way to much time up forward at AFL level.

I think 8 or so players should get pretty harsh reviews at the midpoint of the season. They include Trengrove, Roughead, Dahlhaus, Wallis, Johannisen, Dale, Daniel and Wood. Some of this can be directly attributed to injuries, others to poor coaching (Wood and JJ shouldn’t have been pushed forward) and others such as Trengrove, Daniel, Roughead etc need a long hard look in the mirror. We are 4 - 9 not just because of our horrendous injury list but because of the complete drop off of experienced players that I have just listed.

Overall though our list is not bad as some. In 3 years time we still project to have a good team, these are the guys who will be around in 3 years time and where the holes are.

FB: Adams, Trengrove, Crozier
HB: Williams, Cordy, JJ
C: Richards, McLean, Hunter
HF: Bont, Schache, Gowers
FF: Boyd, Naughton, ****
R: English, Macrae, Liberatore

Int: West, Pick 5 (Smith/Rankine) Daniel, Dale, Miles/experienced mid trade, Khamis, Dahl/Wallis,

Edit: if you want to go smaller then obviously Trengrove gets the punt and Naughton can swing forward to back when required.

My projected side in 3 years is very similar:

FF: XXX Boyd Gowers
HF: XXX Naughton Scache
R: English Jacko Bont
C: Richards Libba Toby
HB: JJ XXX Williams
FB: Wood Adams Cordy

Int candidates: Hunter Lipinski Daniel West Dunks Dale Young Khamis

As you said we are a couple of small/medium forwards short - represented as XXX.

Unlike you though I don’t have confidence in naming Trengrove on evidence to date. This leaves a KPP up in the air - either CHF or CHB, which depends on where Naughton settles and the fact that I think Scache is not a KPP and is more of a third high half forward type.

 

[Dogsman16]

My projected side in 3 years is very similar:

FF: XXX Boyd Gowers
HF: XXX Naughton Scache
R: English Jacko Bont
C: Richards Libba Toby
HB: JJ XXX Williams
FB: Wood Adams Cordy

Int candidates: Hunter Lipinski Daniel West Dunks Dale Young Khamis

As you said we are a couple of small/medium Mids short - represented as XXX.

Unlike you though I don’t have confidence in naming Trengrove on evidence to date. This leaves a KPP up in the air - either CHF or CHB, which depends on where Naughton settles and the fact that I think Scache is not a KPP and is more of a third high half forward type.

I’m not a Trengrove fan in the slightest. Just named him because we signed him to a long term deal for decent money.

I’d rather Roberts if I’m honest.

 

[murphy's twin]

I’m not a Trengrove fan in the slightest. Just named him because we signed him to a long term deal for decent money.

I’d rather Roberts if I’m honest.

I Understand.

Maybe just Adams and Cordy will do for the long term. Although I’m willing to persist with Trengrove.

 

[Maverick Dog]

My team is:

Crozier Young Cordy
JJ Adams Williams
Macrae Liba Richards
Gowers Schache (2018 top 5)
Boyd Naughton ???

English Bont McLean

Hunter West Khamis ????


Spine is set, talls are fine and I am confident Schache, Boyd and English can become very good but Naughton is the next level up and in a league with Bont.
Young needs to bulk up and be able to handle thekey tall. He is 197cm and has a good leap. Adams needs to stay on the park. Crozier, JJ and Rcichards provide enough speed from the back half but we need speed from our HFF and FP to be able to apply the pressure in the fwd half.

If we can fill the 3 empty positions with players with the correct attributes this teams talent, structure and balance should in theory be able to comprehensively beat the 2016 premiership team. I have 8 A graders in this team by 2021 - Macrae, Liba ?, Richards, Naughton, English, Bont, McLean, 2018 top 5 pick and possibly West.

Depth may be an issue.

 

[fronkalicious]

Schache showed more again last nite. The running and kicking is nice. His ground ball gets and hand passing are also good.

Needs another summer or 2 in the gym, but he’s firming as our CHF.

Lipinski is on track too. Great skills and decision making. Just can’t make or break a tackle yet.

 

[murphy's twin]

Schache showed more again last nite. The running and kicking is nice. His ground ball gets and hand passing are also good.

Needs another summer or 2 in the gym, but he’s firming as our CHF.

Lipinski is on track too. Great skills and decision making. Just can’t make or break a tackle yet.

XXX King Gowers
Richards Scache Bont
Boyd Libba Williams
Toby Macrae Lipinski
JJ Adams Suckling
Wood Naughton Cordy

Dunks Crozier English Hunter Dahl Daniel Wallis West


I think a King would slot in beautifully Midfield runs deep.. I’m betting on Williams having a massive year in the guts next year.

 

[fronkalicious]

XXX King Gowers
Richards Scache Bont
Boyd Libba Williams
Toby Macrae Lipinski
JJ Adams Suckling
Wood Naughton Cordy

Dunks Crozier English Hunter Dahl Daniel Wallis West


I think a King would slot in beautifully Midfield runs deep.. I’m betting on Williams having a massive year in the guts next year.

Can both Kings play key forward? With naughton, Adams, cordy and Young, I’m happy with our key defensive stocks.

If King (whichever one.....) is clearly the best available at our pick and can play forward, we take him.

 

[TedDougChris]

Can both Kings play key forward? With naughton, Adams, cordy and Young, I’m happy with our key defensive stocks.

If King (whichever one.....) is clearly the best available at our pick and can play forward, we take him.

Would either require other moves to bolster the midfield, enormous patience or not coming on here for 18 -24 months....

Not saying I disagree, just a comment

 

[murphy's twin]

Can both Kings play key forward? With naughton, Adams, cordy and Young, I’m happy with our key defensive stocks.

If King (whichever one.....) is clearly the best available at our pick and can play forward, we take him.

Look m no draft expert, but they both look like they can play Key forward. Just a question if both English and Boyd can co exist up the grond.

 

[dergert]

Schache with 7-8 tackles this past weekend. He is working hard. Is consistently running 10+ kms a game. I'm torn between recruiting/drafting a key forward to go beside him or midfield class, both are which what we need badly.
I think something we lack is a small/mid defender that can lock down on their opponent, Bruest got way off the leash two weeks ago. Biggs was good 1v1 and knew when to rebound but has turned downwards dramatically in 18 months.

Just media scuttlebutt and will not happen but a few were talking about the possibility of Jarryd Roughead being let go by Hawthorn to accommodate Lynch. I'd be ALLLLLLL over him for a few years to give our forward line some stability.

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

I still think we’ve got a bloody good nucleus for another premiership team. This isn’t including older blokes like Wood, Moz, Suckling and Picken, cos I don’t know where they’re at/how long this team is from contending again.

B: Williams - Adams - Naughton
HB: Johannisen - Cordy - Crozier
C: Macrae - Bontempelli - Hunter
HF: Wallis - Schache - McLean
F: Gowers - Boyd - West
R: English - Liberatore - Dunkley

Dahlhaus - Richards - Daniel - Lipinski

Throw in the fringe guys like Lynch, Jong, Dale etc, pick up a jet at 4/5 (Rankine pls) along with Buk... we’re gonna be alright.

I’m firmly in the keep Dahl and Wallis camp, back them in to be the players we know they can.

The one bloke who I think can really push into that team is Greene. I hope to see him by seasons end, seems to be the natural replacement for Dickson.

Just need some luck and time. Hawks didn’t start pushing for their second flag until Hodge/Mitchell/Burgoyne we’re what, 28? Bud/Rough/Lewis/Birchall 26? We’ve got time. We’re gonna be good.

 

[King Harold]

Schache with 7-8 tackles this past weekend. He is working hard. Is consistently running 10+ kms a game. I'm torn between recruiting/drafting a key forward to go beside him or midfield class, both are which what we need badly.
I think something we lack is a small/mid defender that can lock down on their opponent, Bruest got way off the leash two weeks ago. Biggs was good 1v1 and knew when to rebound but has turned downwards dramatically in 18 months.

Just media scuttlebutt and will not happen but a few were talking about the possibility of Jarryd Roughead being let go by Hawthorn to accommodate Lynch. I'd be ALLLLLLL over him for a few years to give our forward line some stability.

That's out of left field , but I like it.

 

[David Schwarz]

I struggle to live with it because this year has been frustrating, but I think honestly that our young side just doesn't have the tank yet to last a match

That's coming from someone that's been tearing his own hair out over us dominating sides only to fall over in the third quarter like a completely drunk hipster on Smith Street deciding the pavement is a great place to have a quick kip

There really is a lot to be optimistic about, despite the obvious fury and frustration

 

[Unorth]

Schache with 7-8 tackles this past weekend. He is working hard. Is consistently running 10+ kms a game. I'm torn between recruiting/drafting a key forward to go beside him or midfield class, both are which what we need badly.
I think something we lack is a small/mid defender that can lock down on their opponent, Bruest got way off the leash two weeks ago. Biggs was good 1v1 and knew when to rebound but has turned downwards dramatically in 18 months.

Just media scuttlebutt and will not happen but a few were talking about the possibility of Jarryd Roughead being let go by Hawthorn to accommodate Lynch. I'd be ALLLLLLL over him for a few years to give our forward line some stability.

A contested marking KPF would benefit Schache amazingly. Then you could just make Schache even more of a dedicated link-up player who's more of a goal assist than a goal kicking guy. But yeah, we also have some other needs. This is the sucky thing about the English injury; we really need a good look at how the English-Boyd-Schache dynamic actually works. Maybe Boyd spending less time in the ruck and more time up forward allows him to improve his marking and compliment Schache well. But we just haven't been able to see.

 

[David Schwarz]

A contested marking KPF would benefit Schache amazingly. Then you could just make Schache even more of a dedicated link-up player who's more of a goal assist than a goal kicking guy. But yeah, we also have some other needs. This is the sucky thing about the English injury; we really need a good look at how the English-Boyd-Schache dynamic actually works. Maybe Boyd spending less time in the ruck and more time up forward allows him to improve his marking and compliment Schache well. But we just haven't been able to see.

Our biggest killer - even in 2016 - is/was a reliable ruck

English is going to be a gem if he puts 20 pounds on

 

[maddog37]

Gowers
Lipinski
Williams
Crozier
Trengove
Schache
Richards
Norty
Lynch
Greene
English

Eleven players to emerge as genuine senior potential in a very short time. Not too shabby.

Gowers, Williams and Richards looking like potential mids as well which might put pressure on Wallis and Dal. All good ball users.

 

[TempletonTheRat]

Updates:

1. Crozier is nice. Excellent overhead, athletic and great by foot. Anyone who’s had an MCL will tell you it takes time to get back from. Finally looks fit and coming into his own the last 2 weeks.

2. Schache starting to show real promise as a CHF. He’s reasonably weak in the air (not what I expected), but his wheels and his ball use (both hand and foot) are very good. We want him kicking it inside 50, not kicking it to him inside 50.

3. Gowers moves on to the “maybes” list.

FB: Williams Cordy. _________
HB: JJ. Naughton Crozier
C: Richards. Macrae. Hunter
Hf: Mclean. Schache. __________
FF: __________ __________. ___________
R: English. Bont. Libba
IC: _________. _________ __________ ___________

Maybes - Boyd, Daniel, west, Dunkley, wood (body), Adams (body), gowers, lipinski.

BUMP : things have obviously changed a bit in 18 months; i'm interested in an update Fronk. Where do you now see the team? do we have the cattle for a premiership tilt?

 

[dergert]

Beveridge is the man