Harley, Ablett, depth and other stuff

[_Me_]

Hey Me, why are you talking about a Gold Coast player anyway? This is not the forum for this. Go over to the Suns board, and say what you want there. They may care!
mayeb take your own advice
This board is to talk about the GEELONG Football Club- the legends of the past (like the great Bob Davis), as well as the coach and the team now.

You are really missing out. Most of us are just soaking in the terrific start we have had to this season, and yet you are still filthy about something that happened last year. When will you move on?
i have but you are still on and on about judas
Writing hundreds of posts about Gary Ablett isn't going to bring him back. Do you think Gazza drops by the Geelong board to see what Me has to say about him this week? He, like most of us (with the exclusion of RegHickeyStand), couldn't care less about your boring slander.
yet you keep on replying
The only reason I even bother to respond is to present the facts which you conveniently hide to push your point of view, and also I do it to rile you up for my own amusement.
oh really
Kharma will get Gary Ablett this week when he is in a match which has Geelong in it, where he is on the wrong side of a 100+ point hiding. Leaving a great team for a dud one is a bigger punishment than anything you can say or do, Me. i am glad you tell me to move on and then produce this diatribe on judas


I suggest you see someone professional to deal with your grievances.

i suggest you are in denial lauren

 

[_Me_]

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My problem with Mark Thompson leaving was simply a case of timing.

The fact is, he had a contract. Now, I know we now live in a society where being a person of your word means little, but maybe I am being a romantic to think that you do what you say you are going to do. He had told Geelong he was spent in 2007. He had told his wife he loved her.

If Bomber had seen out this year, I believe he would be looked at far more favourably. He would be out of contract, and I don't think any reasonable person would hold it against him if he wanted to do something else (even be an assistant at Essendon), once he had fulfilled his commitment. His contract had an out clause, move on. He did not want to coach the cats. He disliked the manner in which a star player had held the place to ransom.

The problem is, Bomber had a big mouth. He constantly publicly sniped at Ablett's disloyalty, and no matter what you think of Abett's defection, that should have been kept in-house, and not have our dirty laundry be publicised. So Bomber bangs on about loyalty, then it is discovered that he, himself, made a secret deal with Essendon before the end of the season. It just makes him look hypocritical. No loyal, as everyone knew he was a bomber. His ultimate loyalty was to Essendon. Just like Judas was to the $.

Also, Bomber was far from honest about his intentions on leaving. He said he was "burnt out", but somehow can still find the energy to sit next to James Hird in the coaches box. I would have thought the best solution to "burn-out" was to completely get away from football, and maybe have a holiday, or spend time on his property investments. The club came out with that crap, it was PR move on. Just like Judas decided he was going to GC 2 days before he held a press conference.

Bomber should have said to Geelong "I have been offered an assistant coaching role at Essendon, and I want to be released from my contract to take it", even at the risk of the club refusing his request (which they have a right to do, considering a contract is in place). I just hope that Thompson does not expect to receive one remaining cent from his contract, and that walking out forfeits his right to any further renumeration. Are you as angry about Judas selling his gear to Geelong supporters, making sure he fleeced them fully.

One thing Mark Thompson has to remember too is, that the club showed loyalty in him. Geelong had every right to sack him at the end of 2006 (and his coaching that season warranted it), but,they reviewed his performance, and kept him instead. They honored the contract they had with Bomber (which ran to the end of 2007), and he should have returned the favour. And much like Geelong supported the Ablett family when the father was not. Much like the $$$ Nathan got which he did not deserve. Much like the assistance GFC gave Judas early in his career.[/quote]


You are struggling to understand that Bomber did not want to be the main coach at Geelong. He came from a place built on loyalty, and in 2010 saw Geelong people acting in a very treacherous manner. Fitness staff were moving to GC, Star player was going to GC, and he thought the club deserved more. He was on bad terms with Cook.

Hendo you are like your favourite 29, delluded.

 

[OldStyle2007]

Bomber could have left early in a dignified manner, but he painted himself into a corner with his baiting of Ablett during the year.

Ablett could have also avoided an undignified exit without lying to his fans about when he had made his mind up and that article about "My mate Bomber"

And the team play had become a little Ablett centric. This year it is a much more even spread and it is made the Cats a harder team to defend because not every possession chain is going through 1 player

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

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My problem with Mark Thompson leaving was simply a case of timing.

The fact is, he had a contract. Now, I know we now live in a society where being a person of your word means little, but maybe I am being a romantic to think that you do what you say you are going to do.

If Bomber had seen out this year, I believe he would be looked at far more favourably. He would be out of contract, and I don't think any reasonable person would hold it against him if he wanted to do something else (even be an assistant at Essendon), once he had fulfilled his commitment.

The problem is, Bomber had a big mouth. He constantly publicly sniped at Ablett's disloyalty, and no matter what you think of Abett's defection, that should have been kept in-house, and not have our dirty laundry be publicised. So Bomber bangs on about loyalty, then it is discovered that he, himself, made a secret deal with Essendon before the end of the season. It just makes him look hypocritical.

Also, Bomber was far from honest about his intentions on leaving. He said he was "burnt out", but somehow can still find the energy to sit next to James Hird in the coaches box. I would have thought the best solution to "burn-out" was to completely get away from football, and maybe have a holiday, or spend time on his property investments.

Bomber should have said to Geelong "I have been offered an assistant coaching role at Essendon, and I want to be released from my contract to take it", even at the risk of the club refusing his request (which they have a right to do, considering a contract is in place). I just hope that Thompson does not expect to receive one remaining cent from his contract, and that walking out forfeits his right to any further renumeration.

One thing Mark Thompson has to remember too is, that the club showed loyalty in him. Geelong had every right to sack him at the end of 2006 (and his coaching that season warranted it), but,they reviewed his performance, and kept him instead. They honored the contract they had with Bomber (which ran to the end of 2007), and he should have returned the favour.

The problem is definitely you. Thompson had an "out" clause in his contract, and chose to use it.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

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We won the 2007 and 2009 premierships with Gary Ablett in the team. In fact, we won numerous game with Gary Ablett in the team.

You pluck out four of our ten losses in the last four years, and say because Ablett played in them, that is why we lost. That's stupid.

It's not like Geelong is a struggling team. Also, in the 2008 GF, Round 5 last year, and in the PF last year, Gary Ablett was one of our few productive players, and if some of his team-mates came along for the ride in some of those games, we may have won them too.

So, in the last four years (Rd 7 2007-PF 2010), we lost about ten matches, and in at least three of them, Ablett was among our best three players, so you don't know what you are talking about, and I hope that people see the facts, rather than the misinformation used to fuel your Ablett hate.

Why do you hate the current Geelong players?

Why do you even barrack for Geelong? You seem to be fixated on Ablett.

 

[Claude Balls]

1. We may be thrashed at the end of the season, but it won't be for the same reasons as last year.

2. Would Ablett sacrifice his own game willingly to ensure the success of a new gameplan? He didn't make any secret of his disdain for Thompson pushing him forward last year - terrible body language which the entire football world picked up on. Pickering came out and said that it cost Ablett a second Brownlow, and Ablett did not refute that comment.

3. Yes Ablett is a freak, but given the choice between him and all of Bartel, Kelly, Varcoe, Chapman, Corey, Duncan, Menzel et al -I would take the latter 100 times out of 100. Ablett is just one guy, and one guy doesn't win you games. Just lots of supercoach points.

So, are you also suggesting that we got thrashed, and generally capitulated at the end of last year solely because of an Ablett centric inefficiency?

I find that notion ridiculous, as I do the suggestion that he would still be a counterproductive focal point if he had stayed, and not a valuable part of the new coaches gameplan. That´s what some people are saying.

 

[Beth]

Ah, an island of calm and common sense in a increasingly roiling ocean of emotion.

Can I suggest you don't read my post in the GC V Geelong preview thread...

 

[randyzany]

I find that notion ridiculous

You can find it as ridiculous as you want. Fact of the matter is this was arguably the main reason why Collingwood and Malthouse were caught with their pants down in our Round 8 game.

With Ablett gone they had NFI how to approach the game given that the last 2 times they played us all they had was to corral Ablett and wait for his predictable hospital handpass to a team mate that they could intercept and hurt us swiftly on the rebound.

Seeing Mick so flustered after the game and unable to explain how colonwood lost (he probably expected another easy belting) and were uncompetitive for large chunks of the game says it all really.

 

[_Me_]

I find it stupid the media is chasing judas on a geelong day. The little $$$ presented himself without a jacket (because he can't afford one) and was with Moondog. A subtle entrance would have been nice. The day is not about him, or what he does. can the media move on, and can he be decent for once.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

So, are you also suggesting that we got thrashed, and generally capitulated at the end of last year solely because of an Ablett centric inefficiency?

I find that notion ridiculous, as I do the suggestion that he would still be a counterproductive focal point if he had stayed, and not a valuable part of the new coaches gameplan. That´s what some people are saying.

Don't be fatuous Claude. Collingwood exploited the game plan, in which Ablett was a part of the problem. The other part of the problem was Thompson, who unwittingly sabotaged the team's chances by allowing the deficient structures to continue throughout the first half, while Collingwood continued to run around our guys, bypassing the corridor and racking up scores.

Your point about Ablett being a valuable part of a Scott gameplan is moot - it didn't happen, and speculation about HOW GOOD WE COULD HAVE BEEN lacks any grounding in reality, since Ablett had such a desire to be the centre of a club's world, that he approached a club that didn't exist to do it. The reality here is that at Geelong Ablett was icing, not cake.

 

[Claude Balls]

Don't be fatuous Claude. Collingwood exploited the game plan, in which Ablett was a part of the problem. The other part of the problem was Thompson, who unwittingly sabotaged the team's chances by allowing the deficient structures to continue throughout the first half, while Collingwood continued to run around our guys, bypassing the corridor and racking up scores.

Your point about Ablett being a valuable part of a Scott gameplan is moot - it didn't happen, and speculation about HOW GOOD WE COULD HAVE BEEN lacks any grounding in reality, since Ablett had such a desire to be the centre of a club's world, that he approached a club that didn't exist to do it. The reality here is that at Geelong Ablett was icing, not cake.

Fatuous! Quite a word to go throwing around unecessarily LSV. I thought we were still in respectful debate mode.

Just to get things straight, the below is what I was referring to in my original post. This and a few others eager to agree with it.

And the very thing that has made us better this year has been de-Ablettizing our midfield. No more single star gettting 40+ possessions, many of which are double-up handpasses.

Not only that, but Bomber said that during the pre season 2010 he put it to the team to kick longer more often...

Gee, I wonder who led that revolt against more kicking and less pitty-pat handballing?

Again, the above is pretty simple stuff with a clear implication: Ablett was the single biggest reason why we unravelled late last year and got thrashed in the prelim, and our improved position this year is most directly related to the fact that he no longer plays for us.

My point about Ablett improving us even further under the new Scott gameplan is as moot as the above, which you basically endorsed by responding to me the first time. Forgive me for for being so fatuous as to think that was what you were doing. If you weren´t, I´m not sure why you responded to me in the first place.

 

[Claude Balls]

You can find it as ridiculous as you want. Fact of the matter is this was arguably the main reason why Collingwood and Malthouse were caught with their pants down in our Round 8 game.

With Ablett gone they had NFI how to approach the game given that the last 2 times they played us all they had was to corral Ablett and wait for his predictable hospital handpass to a team mate that they could intercept and hurt us swiftly on the rebound.

Seeing Mick so flustered after the game and unable to explain how colonwood lost (he probably expected another easy belting) and were uncompetitive for large chunks of the game says it all really.

You mean Ablett wasn´t there in Rd 8 and Collingwood simply didn´t know what to do?!

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Again, the above is pretty simple stuff with a clear implication: Ablett was the single biggest reason why we unravelled late last year and got thrashed in the prelim, and our improved position this year is most directly related to the fact that he no longer plays for us.

My point about Ablett improving us even further under the new Scott gameplan is as moot as the above, which you basically endorsed by responding to me the first time. Forgive me for for being so fatuous as to think that was what you were doing. If you weren´t, I´m not sure why you responded to me in the first place.

I don't know that I replied to any of your posts here. Did I?

First off, it wasn't just Ablett. Bomber Thompson has said he wanted a gameplan in early 2010 that Scott is now implementing. Its not much of a stretch to deduce that Ablett would have been one of the senior players Bomber was talking about that rebelled against the idea. But spread the blame around, as Ablett could not have taken on the coach by himself.

Allowing Ablett to be the gun, number one midfielder and play was to go through him was a major downfall for us last year. Talk about overplaying your hand. Proof that "freaks" can't win games against top opposition.

Think how good we could have been if Ablett had been used like the other midfielders? Who are you going to drop? Chapman has been great. Kelly has been great. Bartel has been great. Joel Corey has been great. Stevie J has been great. There's not a lot of the ball left after that lot. lol So maybe Varcoe, who has been doing good only. Seriously, he would improve the ranks. A great little player. But I can't see him putting a jet up us exhanging him for one of our gun midfielders this year.

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-remodelled-cats/story-fn8libkp-1226062313259

The return to fitness of Joel Corey has been significant and he's leading the uncontested possession count that was the domain of Chapman and Ablett -- courtesy of the old give-and-go handball routine -- in previous years.

Another rival forward scout of a premiership contender said the Cats no longer threw the ball around, which had been geared around getting it into Ablett's hands.

"As a side, they flew it around a lot and he was always there and if you were ever in doubt you'd give it to him because he was the one to get them out of trouble," he said.

Oh look, it's not just us that noticed it...

 

[Claude Balls]

I don't know that I replied to any of your posts here. Did I?

First off, it wasn't just Ablett. Bomber Thompson has said he wanted a gameplan in early 2010 that Scott is now implementing. Its not much of a stretch to deduce that Ablett would have been one of the senior players Bomber was talking about that rebelled against the idea. But spread the blame around, as Ablett could not have taken on the coach by himself.

Allowing Ablett to be the gun, number one midfielder and play was to go through him was a major downfall for us last year. Talk about overplaying your hand. Proof that "freaks" can't win games against top opposition.

Think how good we could have been if Ablett had been used like the other midfielders? Who are you going to drop? Chapman has been great. Kelly has been great. Bartel has been great. Joel Corey has been great. Stevie J has been great. There's not a lot of the ball left after that lot. lol So maybe Varcoe, who has been doing good only. Seriously, he would improve the ranks. A great little player. But I can't see him putting a jet up us exhanging him for one of our gun midfielders this year.

No sorry Reg, that was actually directed at LSV, but I can see how it would have appeared that I was responding to you given I quoted you.

Re Ablett, I think I´ll just let it slide. It´s all hypothetical anyway.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Why do you hate the current Geelong players?

Why do you even barrack for Geelong? You seem to be fixated on Ablett.

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I don't hate the current Geelong players. I hope that Geelong thrash Gold Coast (an AFL-manufactered team) on Sat. night, and that Ablett is completely shut out of the game?

Who do you think should play on Ablett? Maybe Kelly has the pace to tag him.

Gary Ablett snr was one of the reasons I started following Geelong. Wondering what "magic" he would produce, plus the massive scores Geelong kicked against teams, made me decide that Geelong was my team.

If I followed Ablett jr, I would be a Gold Coast supporter. But I continue to follow Geelong, because no player is around forever, so it is silly to follow a team based on only one player.

I hope we keep Bartel from GWS (I suspect that you won't pay out on Bartel half as much if he signs for the money (will he be Judas 2, then?). I also think Joel Selwood will be a fantastic future captain for us.

The fact is, I want to keep all our decent players. I didn't want Ablett to leave, nor Mumford. I was upset about Leigh Colbert, and I'm sure if I followed Geelong in the 70's, I would have hated Doug Wade leaving too.

 

[Vdubs]

We all hated the departures of Wade, Williams, Toohey, Bolton, Colbert, Ablett, but the show must go on and I've supported Geelong long enough to appreciate one thing for sure, WE ALWAYS PRODUCE A REALLY SPECIAL PLAYER. We may already have him, or he is on the way. But Farmer in the 60's, Sam in the 70's, Turner in the 80's, Ablett in the 90's, Ablett in the 2000's, it goes on and we have the knack. Maybe thanks to Bobby Davis. He has inspired that Geelong way of playing, and that is why we are such a great team to follow. Never dull.