Heath Hocking

[kelvin_sheedy]

Played really well the first three games, was a little quiet the next two weeks. He played Bendigo seconds on the weekend and by all reports he was close to B.O.G despite copping a broken nose.

Bendigo seconds?

Why?

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Do you think that Lachlan Mackinnon will get elevated to the senior list? If he does then it probably means that Heath will not (even thought they are very diferent players).

 

[Longy413]

Bendigo seconds?

Why?

12/10 rule.

 

[Longy413]

Do you think that Lachlan Mackinnon will get elevated to the senior list?

Pffft...

Lachlan McKinnon and elevated should never be used in the same sentence.
Be it, elevated to the senior list, or elevated in being able to actually jump off the ground.

 

[Jex]

Do you think that Lachlan Mackinnon will get elevated to the senior list? If he does then it probably means that Heath will not (even thought they are very diferent players).

Hocking is better than McKinnon, both played for the Bendigo 2's on the w/e.

 

[ant555]

At the moment, yes I do. Rama's leadership and football brain hasn't gone and I've seen evidence of that in the game I saw him play. As fitness grows, I see a place for him. That's if theres no further complications.

As for Heath, there are reasons why guys are chosen in the rookie draft. He needs to be getting a game and dislodging the senior blokes.

I don't like his chances considering Jolley didn't make it either.

As much as i would love to see Rama back i dont think he will be back to what he was. He wasnt playing great footy before he did his knee and im not sure if he will get the pace of the game back after two years out at his age.

Back to Haeth and the rookie draft, Heath has been getting a game and has played better than a lot of the senior blokes. He has a very solid body for a young midfielder which is something Jolley hasnt got. His skills and kicking penetration is much better than Bens. In the first 6 rounds he has averaged 20 possesions and 2 tackles a game.
Yes players are placed in the rookie draft becasue they dont get picked up early on but it cant be used as a guid to judge players. Names like Aaron Davey, Mark Johnson, Pev ,Lovett,NLM,Nathan Bassett,Dean Cox,Sam Mithcell,Ntahan Bock,Martin Mattner and many more have come off rookie lists and made some sort of impact Heath didnt play a lot of TAC cup footy in his last year becasue of a broken arm so he was overlooked to a degree.

 

[GoDons]

As much as i would love to see Rama back i dont think he will be back to what he was. He wasnt playing great footy before he did his knee and im not sure if he will get the pace of the game back after two years out at his age.

Back to Haeth and the rookie draft, Heath has been getting a game and has played better than a lot of the senior blokes. He has a very solid body for a young midfielder which is something Jolley hasnt got. His skills and kicking penetration is much better than Bens. In the first 6 rounds he has averaged 20 possesions and 2 tackles a game.
Yes players are placed in the rookie draft becasue they dont get picked up early on but it cant be used as a guid to judge players. Names like Aaron Davey, Mark Johnson, Pev ,Lovett,NLM,Nathan Bassett,Dean Cox,Sam Mithcell,Ntahan Bock,Martin Mattner and many more have come off rookie lists and made some sort of impact Heath didnt play a lot of TAC cup footy in his last year becasue of a broken arm so he was overlooked to a degree.

I can see where you're coming from but, considering the sort of player Heath is, surely he would have to play senior footy this year to warrant a spot on the list and if he didn't, it must be only because of there being no LTIs. I used Jolley as an example because he did crack the senior side and still didn't make it. All the names you listed managed senior football whilst still being on the rookie list except Bock and Mitchell, Mitchell because he was never on a rookie list. I must admit to being less than certain about Cox and Bassett but the others listed at least.

Also, what I meant about dislodging senior guys was dislodging guys playing in the AFL, not just guys on the senior list.

If Heath cracks a game, I'd say he's a chance. At the moment, it doesn't look like he will.

As for Rama, we should learn the answer to whether or not he's up to it as the season goes on. It's probably to early to pass judgement.

 

[Longy413]

Worth mentioning that injuries had an affect on Hocking slipping in the draft.

 

[GoDons]

Worth mentioning that injuries had an affect on Hocking slipping in the draft.

True, but if you've really got something you don't slip to the 2nd round of the rookie draft in my opinion. Look no further than Chris Dawes' selection at Collingwood last year.

 

[Longy413]

True, but if you've really got something you don't slip to the 2nd round of the rookie draft in my opinion. Look no further than Chris Dawes' selection at Collingwood last year.

He does have something.

He has courage, the ability to find the footy and use it well.

The problem is, he's a "old school" midfielder. Those types don't traditionally get picked up early in the rookie draft, when clubs are looking to take a punt on an athlete or on a particular need.

In fact, when you're that type of footballer you need to have something exceptional to get a lot of attention in the draft. Hocking doesn't have anything exceptional, he's just good at a lot of things.

 

[GoDons]

He does have something.

He has courage, the ability to find the footy and use it well.

The problem is, he's a "old school" midfielder. Those types don't traditionally get picked up early in the rookie draft, when clubs are looking to take a punt on an athlete or on a particular need.

In fact, when you're that type of footballer you need to have something exceptional to get a lot of attention in the draft. Hocking doesn't have anything exceptional, he's just good at a lot of things.

Valid points.

I think the term I was looking for was something special rather than just something.

From what I've seen of him, he seems to lack another level in his game. I don't think he has what it takes to take a game apart or, to go to an extreme, exert any really strong influence on a game.

This begs the question, do we need a solid player or should we take a risk on something a little bit more with a draft pick?

 

[Longy413]

I know this is probably sitting on the fence, but I'm willing to wait until the end of the season on that one.

Everyteam needs an engine room though, a player you can rely on to do a job. If you can consistently find the footy, especially in contested situations, you can make an impact on a game of footy.

 

[ant555]

Valid points.

I think the term I was looking for was something special rather than just something.

From what I've seen of him, he seems to lack another level in his game. I don't think he has what it takes to take a game apart or, to go to an extreme, exert any really strong influence on a game.

This begs the question, do we need a solid player or should we take a risk on something a little bit more with a draft pick?

How much have you seen of him ?
He is not a Judd type or a really classy midfielder , he is more of a Jason Johnson type with better skills. Considering he has played a total 12 VFL games he isnt doing to badly to be averaging 20 possessions per game. Goes in hard, tackles hard, marks well.
When you say he hasnt got what it takes to take a game apart or have a strong influence on a game then i would suggest that you havnt seen much of him. Round two against the Bullants he had 12 kicks, 11 handballs,5 marks,4 tackles and kicked a goal. Against Williamstown he had 13 kicks,14 handballs,9 marks, 1 tackle and kicked a goal. If those two games are not having an influence on a game then i dont know what is given he hasnt been playing exclusivly in the midfield.
Even against Sandy when he had a relatively quiet game(and was injured) he managed to kick two goals.

 

[Longy413]

How much have you seen of him ?
He is not a Judd type or a really classy midfielder , he is more of a Jason Johnson type with better skills. Considering he has played a total 12 VFL games he isnt doing to badly to be averaging 20 possessions per game. Goes in hard, tackles hard, marks well.
When you say he hasnt got what it takes to take a game apart or have a strong influence on a game then i would suggest that you havnt seen much of him. Round two against the Bullants he had 12 kicks, 11 handballs,5 marks,4 tackles and kicked a goal. Against Williamstown he had 13 kicks,14 handballs,9 marks, 1 tackle and kicked a goal. If those two games are not having an influence on a game then i dont know what is given he hasnt been playing exclusivly in the midfield.
Even against Sandy when he had a relatively quiet game(and was injured) he managed to kick two goals.

Let's settle down on the "have you seen him" thing. It sounds a little like "my dad is better than your dad." I think he has a valid point.

He doesn't have a standout quality and that was the point he was trying to make.

You look at Dempsey and you go, wow, he's quick.
Chartres can jump.
Dick has an element of class.

Hocking is just a good footballer. He doesn't have a weapon in other words and Ben Jolley probably suffered from that.

However, Hocking is a better footballer than BJ.

He was trying to find the reason he went so late in the draft/s. He nailed it.

 

[ant555]

Let's settle down on the "have you seen him" thing. It sounds a little like "my dad is better than your dad." I think he has a valid point.

He doesn't have a standout quality and that was the point he was trying to make.

You look at Dempsey and you go, wow, he's quick.
Chartres can jump.
Dick has an element of class.

Hocking is just a good footballer. He doesn't have a weapon in other words and Ben Jolley probably suffered from that.

However, Hocking is a better footballer than BJ.

He was trying to find the reason he went so late in the draft/s. He nailed it.

Well i do question if he has seen much of him if he says Hocking has never had an influence on a game. I didnt say he was a certain star i simply pointed out two games where he did have a bit of an influence.
Calling him a Jason Johnson type midfielder with better skills would suggest that he isnt some sort of super star midfielder but more of a hard working player with good skills. It was not about pumping him up to be something he isnt.

 

[mick4]

Well i do question if he has seen much of him if he says Hocking has never had an influence on a game. I didnt say he was a certain star i simply pointed out two games where he did have a bit of an influence.
Calling him a Jason Johnson type midfielder with better skills would suggest that he isnt some sort of super star midfielder but more of a hard working player with good skills. It was not about pumping him up to be something he isnt.

Would you rank him above any of the players on the main list at the monent? Seeing both Dick and Chartes seem to be a fair chance of at least being retained there spot on the rookie list and McKinnon or another ruckman will be at the club next year there dosen't seem a whole lot of room.

Hopefully a repeat of 2004 will not happen where Essendon over estimated there list by not making tough decisions on players like Bullen, Haynes ect.. which Kevin Sheedy has said has cost the club

 

[GoDons]

How much have you seen of him ?
He is not a Judd type or a really classy midfielder , he is more of a Jason Johnson type with better skills. Considering he has played a total 12 VFL games he isnt doing to badly to be averaging 20 possessions per game. Goes in hard, tackles hard, marks well.
When you say he hasnt got what it takes to take a game apart or have a strong influence on a game then i would suggest that you havnt seen much of him. Round two against the Bullants he had 12 kicks, 11 handballs,5 marks,4 tackles and kicked a goal. Against Williamstown he had 13 kicks,14 handballs,9 marks, 1 tackle and kicked a goal. If those two games are not having an influence on a game then i dont know what is given he hasnt been playing exclusivly in the midfield.
Even against Sandy when he had a relatively quiet game(and was injured) he managed to kick two goals.

I've seen him 4 times, I understand that's not as much as you. In the games I have see him play, I've seen him as solid. To me, he lacks a spark. As Longy says, he's just a good footballer.

To me, just being a good, solid player in the VFL means that you're not quite up to it once you reach the AFL. Good examples of this are guys like Ken Hall and Jordan Doering. They were very good, solid VFL footballers and cracked it for a few AFL games. However, when they did play AFL, they seemed to be left behind a bit.

When I said he seems to lack the ability to take a game apart or exert a strong influence, I was more referring to what I think would happen if he did play AFL. So many guys, very similar to him, have failed despite being good, solid footballers in the VFL.

 

[GoDons]

I know this is probably sitting on the fence, but I'm willing to wait until the end of the season on that one.

Everyteam needs an engine room though, a player you can rely on to do a job. If you can consistently find the footy, especially in contested situations, you can make an impact on a game of footy.

I think sitting on the fence is more than justified, Hocking still has more than half a season to show he's up to it.

Time will tell but, at the moment, I think odds are probably against him.