Heaven vs Hell

[dreampolice]

Without wanting to get too much into the scriptures what does everyone feel about heaven -vs hell?


If there a heaven must there be a hell?
What credibility do we give those after death experiences of people who came back ?
Indeed if there is a god is there a satan?
Is heaven (or hell) a state of mind?

Thoughts please!

 

[Nic]

Non-existant.

 

[Yianni]

Originally posted by dreampolice
Without wanting to get too much into the scriptures what does everyone feel about heaven -vs hell?


If there a heaven must there be a hell?
What credibility do we give those after death experiences of people who came back ?
Indeed if there is a god is there a satan?
Is heaven (or hell) a state of mind?

Thoughts please!

I find the idea that where you "end up" in the universe could be based on some sort of morality highly questionable.

Morality, judgment, damnation and other such things are highly human traits, not universal.

The universe is more of a "whatever", "sh*t happens" sort of place. There is no why, it just is.

The search for why is a torment people place on themselves and every person that has died in the name of religion is a victim...

 

[Portia]

I don't believe either exists. What would be the point?

Why would a creator make a world full of so many complexities and then want people to live a one-dimensional life so that they can then live in a one-dimensional heaven/hell for ever? Talk about futile.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

I believe it exists, but I also believe it's something that is very hard to discuss over a messageboard.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by CowboyFromHell
I believe it exists, but I also believe it's something that is very hard to discuss over a messageboard.

Do you have explanatory pamphlets?

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Originally posted by Porthos
Do you have explanatory pamphlets?

I'll send you one in the mail.

I was brought up going to church and the like (although I haven't been going for a long time now) and I just believe it exists. There's plenty I could say about why, but it's difficult to put into words.

What I find silly is all these different forms of "religion" worshipping the same God, yet they fight each other all the time. Senseless.

And anyway, as my name suggests, I come from Hell so it must exist.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by CowboyFromHell
And anyway, as my name suggests, I come from Hell so it must exist.

This also implies the existence of Cow Hell.

I think the problem with these religions is that the core belief of most of them is that theirs is the only true religion. If you really believe, then surely its your duty to smite the unholy.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Originally posted by Porthos
This also implies the existence of Cow Hell.

I think the problem with these religions is that the core belief of most of them is that theirs is the only true religion. If you really believe, then surely its your duty to smite the unholy.

How do you mean "smite the unholy?" As in tell all the unbelievers they are bad etc.?

Never heard of Cow Hell. I could have been anything from hell, but the Cowboy just tickled my fancy!

 

[Yianni]

Originally posted by Porthos
I think the problem with these religions is that the core belief of most of them is that theirs is the only true religion. If you really believe, then surely its your duty to smite the unholy.

This is what I mean when I said

Originally posted by Porthos
Morality, judgment, damnation and other such things are highly human traits, not universal.

The search for why is a torment people place on themselves and every person that has died in the name of religion is a victim...

When religions assert what is true and therefore what is untrue, unless they represent the thoughts of every living person (which is highly unlikely) then the act of asserting such truth itself causes conflict.

This happens whenever people lay down laws for religion.

A "live and let live" attitude generates much less conflict, but does not satisfy that intrinsic human desire to feel right.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by CowboyFromHell
How do you mean "smite the unholy?" As in tell all the unbelievers they are bad etc.?

Pretty much. Try and convert them, etc.

Never heard of Cow Hell. I could have been anything from hell, but the Cowboy just tickled my fancy!

So cows can go to hell?

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Originally posted by Porthos
Pretty much. Try and convert them, etc.

So cows can go to hell?

Well, yes, that is the common goal of believers. However, many of these people make the mistake of being too aggressive or just going about it the wrong way. There are so many different forms of the religion that it's quite easy to lose count. I think the use of the term "smite" is being a bit too harsh, but I guess that's how some of them would come across. The bible does say that we should "love thy neighbour as you would love thy self", so the goal should be to show the love through the way you act etc.

Sorry, I'm crapping on. And hey, I'm a CowBOY Porthos, not a Cow!

 

[sabre_ac]

For those of you that dont believe in heaven or hell, what do you believe happens to us when we die?
Surely you dont believe we cease to exist?
I mean wat a miserable life you must lead if in the end its all for nothing.

 

[Portia]

I believe we cease to exist. No point being miserable about it, because as soon as you're dead there's no regrets - there's just nothing, and you're not even aware of the nothing.

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by CowboyFromHell
The bible does say that we should "love thy neighbour as you would love thy self", so the goal should be to show the love through the way you act etc.

I believe the Old Testament was a bit more definite on examples of what should be done.

Sorry, I'm crapping on. And hey, I'm a CowBOY Porthos, not a Cow!

Yes, but if there are no cows, how can you be a cowboy?

 

[Yianni]

Originally posted by sabre_ac
For those of you that dont believe in heaven or hell, what do you believe happens to us when we die?
Surely you dont believe we cease to exist?
I mean wat a miserable life you must lead if in the end its all for nothing.

I believe that everything in the universe is linked and that we are all part of everything else.

It can best be summed up by the phrase "everything is everything" which came to me in the heavier stages of an LSD trip, but it makes more sense to me than the very simplistic "you live, you die" idea.

Because until we can answer such basic questions such as
"what is life?"
"what is consciousness?"
"where does consciousness spring from?"

then to try to definitively make assertions about it is ridiculous. It's like trying to explain to someone what a cow does without even knowing what a cow IS!

That said, I'm not saying my theory is based on anything more concrete, but it is based on my own experience. And before you decry my idea by saying "yeah, but you were on drugs at the time", what's to say that the thoughts that we have whilst on "consciousness altering" (yes, think about the words) substances (let's not use the D word, it has SUCH a social stigma) are any more right or wrong than those we have when we are "normal" (what the hell does that mean anyway?)

Let's just put it this way, after having many experiences on LSD, I no longer fear death.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Originally posted by Porthos
I believe the Old Testament was a bit more definite on examples of what should be done.

Yes, but if there are no cows, how can you be a cowboy?

Well unfortunately I don't have time to go flicking through the Old Testament, so you will just have to make do with what I put in!

And just because I'm a cowboy doesn't mean that cows also go to hell. I was just a cowboy. Animals dont' go to heaven or hell... I think....

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by sabre_ac
For those of you that dont believe in heaven or hell, what do you believe happens to us when we die?
Surely you dont believe we cease to exist?
I mean wat a miserable life you must lead if in the end its all for nothing.

Rubbish

Exactly the opposite

Live like every day is your last and get the most out of it rather than wait for some etheral eternity that you are promised in a book written over 2000 years ago by some bosom buddies named Matthew Mark Luke and John.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by CowboyFromHell
. Animals dont' go to heaven or hell... I think....

According to Father O'Sullivan this is true

animals do not have souls

therefor animals can't go to heaven or hell.

What a sad miserable life animals must lead

 

[Yianni]

Originally posted by Jars458
According to Father O'Sullivan this is true

animals do not have souls

therefor animals can't go to heaven or hell.

What a sad miserable life animals must lead

It was a great evolutionary leap, when we evolved souls.

Evolving opposable thumbs allowed us to ascend into trees.
Evolving souls allowed us to ascend into heaven.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by Yianni
It was a great evolutionary leap, when we evolved souls.

Evolving opposable thumbs allowed us to ascend into trees.
Evolving souls allowed us to ascend into heaven.

I was hoping to evolve a free coopers pale ale tap but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Stevo]

Originally posted by dreampolice
Without wanting to get too much into the scriptures what does everyone feel about heaven -vs hell?


If there a heaven must there be a hell?
What credibility do we give those after death experiences of people who came back ?
Indeed if there is a god is there a satan?
Is heaven (or hell) a state of mind?

Thoughts please!

These aren't trivial questions, since they require input from the cognitive sciences, anthropology, philosophy, theology, psychoanalysis, and other disciplines.

Heidegger argued that the very nature of being human is to be ontological. Nowhere is this more overt than in mysticism and religion, where we ascribe meaning to our being in relation to existence.

Jung and Neumann argued that mysticism is a result of the structure and dynamic of consciousness. The Christian godhead forms a triptych in which each element can be seen to have arisen through a certain element of the psyche. It can also be seen that a lot of the problems that arise in Christian theology come from this triptych, and more specifically, not accepting a quadripartite godhead which has Satan (evil/the Jungian 'shadow') as one of its members.

As for after-death experiences, their credibility is not great. There's a reason we have a scientific method. How do these people know that what they experienced is what they thought they experienced? This is really leading us back to the days of infantile consciousness when we ascribed meaning and definition to objects without apodictic or adequate evidence.

 

[Yianni]

Re: Re: Heaven vs Hell

Originally posted by Stevo
These aren't trivial questions, since they require input from the cognitive sciences, anthropology, philosophy, theology, psychoanalysis, and other disciplines.

Heidegger argued that the very nature of being human is to be ontological. Nowhere is this more overt than in mysticism and religion, where we ascribe meaning to our being in relation to existence.

Jung and Neumann argued that mysticism is a result of the structure and dynamic of consciousness. The Christian godhead forms a triptych in which each element can be seen to have arisen through a certain element of the psyche. It can also be seen that a lot of the problems that arise in Christian theology come from this triptych, and more specifically, not accepting a quadripartite godhead which has Satan (evil/the Jungian 'shadow') as one of its members.

As for after-death experiences, their credibility is not great. There's a reason we have a scientific method. How do these people know that what they experienced is what they thought they experienced? This is really leading us back to the days of infantile consciousness when we ascribed meaning and definition to objects without apodictic or adequate evidence.

Hey Stevo, my thread about funny words is in HERE

You should contribute. I espcially like triptych and "quadripartite godhead"

 

[Stevo]

Re: Re: Re: Heaven vs Hell

Originally posted by Yianni
Hey Stevo, my thread about funny words is in HERE

You should contribute. I espcially like triptych and "quadripartite godhead"

I have already contributed to that thread, but if you want me to unload all the useless and esoteric vocabulary I've picked up then I'm afraid I'll have to disappoint you!

 

[Uncle Steve]

Originally posted by dreampolice
Without wanting to get too much into the scriptures what does everyone feel about heaven -vs hell?

Did you know that heaven is actually hotter than hell?

Check it out:

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/hell.htm

(also presented is the counter-proof, but I don't think it's nearly as cool )