Heaven vs Hell

[noodle]

Originally posted by sabre_ac
For those of you that dont believe in heaven or hell, what do you believe happens to us when we die?
Surely you dont believe we cease to exist?
I mean wat a miserable life you must lead if in the end its all for nothing.

i live my life for me and others that i care for. my actions aren't controled by the belief that if a do good i'll be rewarded with a harp and halo or if i'm bad i'll be boiled in a lava pool.

 

[Cyclops]

St Kilda by 5 goals, Plugger kicks 9, Barrassi BOG.

The Old Testament contains references to Heaven as God's abode, along with Elijah and Elisha (who hitched a ride in a chariot of fire-presumably there's a mechanic shop in heaven).

The Torah or Pentateuch (first five books of the Bible) makes no reference to an afterlife for anyone at all (not even the prophets). Hence the Zadokites (Sadducees or High Priestly faction of Judaism) held that we cease to exist when we die.

Satan seems to have been a minor spirit or angel of the Heavenly court, only gradually become an "enemy" figure over time. Maybe the title "Prince of Darkness" is a contract position and we'll see Hitler replacing Satan in a millenium or two.

As reported in the Gospels, Jesus spoke about the "Kingdom of Heaven". He may have meant Heaven up in the sky, or he may have meant God's immenent rule on Earth.

Christian (ie post Easter) doctrine has us all going to Heaven but it is by no means sure Jesus meant that. He might have been a sort of Nationalist/religious figure, trying to liberate Jerusalem from alien oppression and renew social and religious life in Palestine. ("The PPFLP? That's him over there").

Jesus also talked about a fire or a torment for those found wanting or who did not obey his father (God). This may have been a reference to punishment in Hell or some sort of political retaliation in a new Jewish state here on earth.

Most religions offer incentives to good behaviour, whether its an end to pain (original Buddhism) rebirth in a better state (Hinduism and degenerate Buddhism), or a place in Heaven (Judaism, Christianity, Confucianism, Islam etc). Most of these offer some kind of Hell or "bad place" or nasty reincarnation as a stick to go with the carrot.

I think its despicable to play on peoples superstition and tell them they will go to "Hell" unless they are in the right club.

Originally posted by Jars458
I was hoping to evolve a free coopers pale ale tap but it hasn't happened yet.

Every bloke has a Toohey's tap attached...

 

[kaysee]

Originally posted by dreampolice
Without wanting to get too much into the scriptures what does everyone feel about heaven -vs hell?


If there a heaven must there be a hell?
What credibility do we give those after death experiences of people who came back ?
Indeed if there is a god is there a satan?
Is heaven (or hell) a state of mind?

Thoughts please!

I believe in both Heaven and Hell, and that God and Satan exist. I also believe all of these are beyond our any current comprehension and that only after death when we are in the presence of either God/Satan can we be 'enlightened' and understand.

For people who 'come back' I have no idea ... maybe it is to shock them into some sort of action. Maybe it is biologically near death in the sense that they are so close to dying that the brain is shutting down and they see some of their last dream images or electric impulses. They then are revived and recall the last images... very similar to what happens when you wake up and can remember your dreams.

Last point... I have no problem with so called images of Satan being this Red, Horned and Tailed person or so devil signs etc. IMO Satan would love for us to believe that is what he is like because it would further aid him in his true skill of Deception. Satan causes his trouble through deception and tricking people into rebelling against God.

SKC

 

[Portia]

Conspiracy theory.

 

[Stevo]

Re: Re: Heaven vs Hell

Originally posted by Uncle Steve
Did you know that heaven is actually hotter than hell?

Check it out:

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/hell.htm

(also presented is the counter-proof, but I don't think it's nearly as cool )

I'm not familiar with the original texts, but Dante's Inferno describes Hell - at least, at its greatest depth - as a region of frigid cold.

 

[Stevo]

Re: Re: Heaven vs Hell

Originally posted by kaysee
I believe in both Heaven and Hell, and that God and Satan exist. I also believe all of these are beyond our any current comprehension and that only after death when we are in the presence of either God/Satan can we be 'enlightened' and understand.

Standard sort of reply, first thoroughly explicated by Kierkegaard. I'm not a religious person, but I think if one is religious than this position is the most plausible: religion is a matter of faith, not of logic or science.

 

[skipper kelly]

Re: Re: Re: Heaven vs Hell

Originally posted by Stevo
religion is a matter of faith, not of logic or science.

thank you padre.

 

[skipper kelly]

Re: Re: Re: Heaven vs Hell

Originally posted by Stevo
first thoroughly explicated by Kierkegaard.

Stevo mate.

What does explicated mean?

Can you give me a hint as to Kierkegaard so I can understand what the hell you are talking about. Animal, Mineral or Vegetable?

 

[Stevo]

When one explicates a notion, they elaborate, explain, and develop it.

Kierkegaard was a 19th century Danish philosopher. He had a major influence on 20th century existential philosophy (Sartre, Merleau-Ponty, among others). He is primarily recognised for his work in theology and the philosophy of mysticism and religion. Wittgenstein apparently regarded him as the 19th century's deepest thinker.

For any Christian looking to get a deeper understanding of their religion, Kierkegaard is the best place to start.

 

[skipper kelly]

You are a f...... genius my man. With your brain and my body we could go places.

 

[Stevo]

Originally posted by skipper kelly
You are a f...... genius my man. With your brain and my body we could go places.

Hardly a genius... But well read.

A trade then? Brain for brain!