Henry Playfair

[doppleganger]

Haven't heard much about H o'er the pre-season

has he been injured??

anyway what are ur opinions on H being able to hold down CHF this year

will he be a big improver on last year
similar sort of output
any other blokes putting there name in the ring for CHF etc.

think this is the catters only worrying posi, as i dont hold out much hope for the pies this year im hoping that the catters can go all the way, flogging the aints in the prelim in the process!!

 

[catempire]

I think if he plays the way he did for the first part of last year (up until he broke his jaw against Adelaide) most of us (and the club) will be very happy with him. If he improves on that form it will be a massive bonus. Basically, we need him to stay fit and hold down the position.

I don't ever see him becoming a dominant CHF in the mould of a Tredrea, Brown or Hall but he could become a very solid player. His kicking is a worry but he can take a nice grab and he moves well across the ground for a 200cm bloke. Can also be thrown back or into the ruck if needed.

 

[ezbian]

Agree with CatEmpire. On most things.

My big concern for H this year, is not so much his continued improvment but more his fitness. He was critical to our structure last year, prior to breaking his jaw. But this time last year he was also up and about. He was super fit, and basically ran the CHB into the ground.

I have high hope for H, and oneday believe he will be a very serviceable CHF. He will never be a dominant gun, but if we got say the output of a Earl Spalding or Scotty Lucas I think we will all be very happy.

 

[della]

The same output as earl Spalding or Scott lucas, r u serious, Big H will never reach those heights and i dare say if we had scott lucas now or the last few years we would of had a flag for sure, lets not kid ourselves with Big H, he will be serviceable and he works hard and all that but he will never be a matchwinner, i still think he makes to many wrong decisions, that final against syd when he marked 20mtrs out, i put my head down to pick up my drink and suddenly the ball is being run out of defence by the Swans, i still don't know what happened as i haven't watched the game yet.

 

[Kegs44]

Probs agree with della, he'll be serviceable and will take quite a handy defender to stop him but dont think he's going to be able to hold down CHF by himself. I reckon he needs another mid-tall bvackup CHF with him if thats makes sense and we can work through both of them. I probs havent explained wat i mean properly

 

[Turbocat]

Although Im not a memeber of Jack's get H out of the hoops group , I will be harder this year on him. He has benifited by our lack of any better option at CHF and I have no doubt he is of current best option. Any one watching the last couple of weeks surley couldn't disagree with this
I expect him to continue to improve. The type of performance he gave against teh Crows pre the jaw is what I hope to see more often , goals as well as presenting and taking marks.

 

[Jack-Packenham]

I have high hope for H, and oneday believe he will be a very serviceable CHF. He will never be a dominant gun, but if we got say the output of a Earl Spalding or Scotty Lucas I think we will all be very happy.

Have you ever seen Henry the goat dominate a game like Scott Lucas did against the cats last year ???

Scott Lucas is a quality forward who gets bagged because he is a one sided player. He kicked 5 goals in a preliminary final to single handedly get his team to the gf. Henry would struggle to get the ball 5 times in a big game.

 

[Jack-Packenham]

The same output as earl Spalding or Scott lucas, r u serious, Big H will never reach those heights and i dare say if we had scott lucas now or the last few years we would of had a flag for sure, lets not kid ourselves with Big H, he will be serviceable and he works hard and all that but he will never be a matchwinner, i still think he makes to many wrong decisions, that final against syd when he marked 20mtrs out, i put my head down to pick up my drink and suddenly the ball is being run out of defence by the Swans, i still don't know what happened as i haven't watched the game yet.

Music to my ears !!!!!!

 

[Jack-Packenham]

Although Im not a memeber of Jack's get H out of the hoops group , I will be harder this year on him. He has benifited by our lack of any better option at CHF and I have no doubt he is of current best option. Any one watching the last couple of weeks surley couldn't disagree with this
I expect him to continue to improve. The type of performance he gave against teh Crows pre the jaw is what I hope to see more often , goals as well as presenting and taking marks.

He is warming the chair for Tom Hawkins in 2007. Even an inexperienced Hawkins will be a lot better than Henry.

You say he is clearly the best option and the last couple of weeks proved this, I disagree. To me (and all my mates who stand and watch the games) Henry is no better than what Gardiner and co have dished up in the last couple of weeks. Lonergan takes a mark and kicks it on the full. Henry would do that every week. Gardiner drops a chest mark, Henry does that most weeks. Kingsley marks and kicks to the opposition, Henry does that at least twice a game. The difference between Gardiner and Henry is that Charlie will be involved (kicks, marks and handballs) 15-20 times a game while Henry might only get 6 or 7 touches so he doesn't have as many chances too stuff up as Charlie does. Gardiner is more mobile than Henry, just as bad a decision maker, both terrible kicks and both look out of there depth.

The big difference is that Henry gets a dream run becuase he gets to use STRUCTURE as his reason for being in the team. As i Have said before, pick your best 22 players and then fill the positions. If that left us with Milburn, Mooney, S Johnson, Kingsley, G Ablett alternating through the CHF line than so be it. But don't just plonk some hack there and say he is the best we have so put up with it.

 

[Jack-Packenham]

Can also be thrown back or into the ruck if needed.

When has he ever played well in defence ???

Have you watched the replay of the Port Adelaide final in 2004 ??

 

[Jack-Packenham]

If he was doing such a great job up until he broke his jaw, where was he coming in the best and fairest at the time ???

 

[catempire]

Special effort Jack - 5 posts bagging H in a row in the one thread!

This has been done to death. I'm not going to enter into it again. I'll let Henry do the talking on the field and I'll drag these threads back up later in the year and after Henry's sipping out of the premiership cup.

 

[Jack-Packenham]

Special effort Jack - 5 posts bagging H in a row in the one thread!

This has been done to death. I'm not going to enter into it again. I'll let Henry do the talking on the field and I'll drag these threads back up later in the year and after Henry's sipping out of the premiership cup.

Do they get a cup in the VFL ???

It's amazing nobody ever answers the question about the best and fairest votes. Get jubjub on the case, he thinks he knows everything.

 

[catempire]

Do they get a cup in the VFL ???

It's amazing nobody ever answers the question about the best and fairest votes. Get jubjub on the case, he thinks he knows everything.

I don't have the round by round best and fairest votes at hand Jack. If you do, enlighten us by all means. But put them up for all the players because I bet there'd be plenty of underachievers using this measure as the yardstick.

 

[ezbian]

The same output as earl Spalding or Scott lucas, r u serious, Big H will never reach those heights and i dare say if we had scott lucas now or the last few years we would of had a flag for sure, lets not kid ourselves with Big H, he will be serviceable and he works hard and all that but he will never be a matchwinner, i still think he makes to many wrong decisions, that final against syd when he marked 20mtrs out, i put my head down to pick up my drink and suddenly the ball is being run out of defence by the Swans, i still don't know what happened as i haven't watched the game yet.

Ok maybe Lucas was a bad call, but its hard to think of a middle class CHF. They are generally freaks, Riewoldt,Brown,Hall,Tredea or they aren't that flash. Lucas isn't quite in the class of the first four. He is definetely in the rung below. Possibly on his own.

The thing about H compared to Gardiner and Lonergran is that he doesn't get pushed off the ball and go to ground all the friggin time. The reason why H is good to our structure is because of his size and his ability to compete.

 

[ezbian]

Gardiner is more mobile than Henry, just as bad a decision maker, both terrible kicks and both look out of there depth.

Agreed with most of the points Jack. H does make as many mistakes as Gardiner, and those mistakes are similar.

But H is a bigger body and doesn't get knocked out of the way, and doesn't get completely outmarked. He creates a contest and gives Ablett, Chapman and Johnson a chance to crumb. He creates opportunity for others. Lonergran and gardiner are still boys and get outmarked or pushed out of the contest too easily.

Hawkins might be the answer in the future, but the time is NOW! H's form in the first part of last season, combined with the rest of the forward structure playing and being fit, is enough for us to give it a real shake. Lonergran and Gardiner have never given us that. They are playing out of their weight division I am afraid.

 

[The Hulkster]

Great stuff Jack, this thread must be music to your ears, a great opputunity to bag Henry and what a fine job you did.

I hope he can prove you wrong, but i am of the opinion also that he is warming CHF till big Tom Hawkins arrives.

 

[ezbian]

As i Have said before, pick your best 22 players and then fill the positions. If that left us with Milburn, Mooney, S Johnson, Kingsley, G Ablett alternating through the CHF line than so be it. But don't just plonk some hack there and say he is the best we have so put up with it.

I am not sure how you can explain this working. The Flag winners over the past decade have all had forward targets. As good as Johnson, Ablett, Chapman and Milburn are, you can't put it on their heads and expect them not to get outmarked.

You need big bodies who provide a contest that bring the ball to ground. Geelong are at their best when they are moving the footy fast and kicking it long into the forward line of one on one's. The forward either marks it, or creates a contest for our small's.

Perhaps Gardiner and lonergran haven't had the quick ball movement required over the last three weeks, but I have never looked at a forward matchup involving those players and thought gee we have the upper hand in that one. H, McCarthy and even Nath have looked dangerous against third defensive options at times.

 

[Jack-Packenham]

I am not sure how you can explain this working. The Flag winners over the past decade have all had forward targets. As good as Johnson, Ablett, Chapman and Milburn are, you can't put it on their heads and expect them not to get outmarked.
You need big bodies who provide a contest that bring the ball to ground.

The bulldogs have got the right idea. If you haven't got a BIG forward good enough, improvise. The play Robert Murphy and CHF, Matthew Robbins at FF surrounded by guys who crumb and lead quickly i.e Brad Johnson, Daniel Giansiracusa etc. They run to space and the on ballers kick to that space. You only need big tall forwards if you play the kangaroos of the 90's style of kicking long to Carey.

I would love to see the cats set up something like this

HF : S Johnson Milburn G Ablett
F : Chapman Ottens Kingsley/N Ablett

Fast movement of the ball to leading players. If you have to kick long, go deeper and to Ottens. I like N Ablett in this kind of set up because he is smart and can handball to effect to players in better position.

Don't just play a guy that most admit is not that great just because he is 6 foot 6 and that's the size of a CHF. Just think of playing against Brisbane in Rd 1. Leppitch to play on Henry. I think we know who would win that one. Imagine if Milburn started there. Played the right way ( running and leading into space ) Dasher would give Leppa all sorts of trouble. Then the lions would have to move Leppa away from his comfort zone and go to option 2 which might be a smaller mobile guy like Chris Scott or Tim Notting, then you could kick to Milburn in a one on one and he would be a chance.

 

[ezbian]

Yeah Ok, but will the Bulldogs win the flag with that setup? They also rely heavily on speed and precision skills. I think areas that you would admit we don't excel in.

I know you can't dwell on the past but the numbers stack up.

Sydney 05: Hall, O'Loughlin
Port 04: Tredea, Lade
Bris 03,02,01: Brown, Lynch
Ess 00: Lucas, Lyold
Kangas 99: Carey, McKernan, Longmire (not sure if he was still around) Sholl

The best sides have had key posts all the way down there spine.

Maybe your forward structure could work, although for this to be the case I think KK needs to be on the HFF and he and Dasher need to play tandom CHF roles.

I just think the coaching staff look at the years gone by, and realise that teams don't win the flag without a big spine.

 

[Jack-Packenham]

I know you can't dwell on the past but the numbers stack up.
Sydney 05: Hall, O'Loughlin
Port 04: Tredea, Lade
Bris 03,02,01: Brown, Lynch
Ess 00: Lucas, Lyold
Kangas 99: Carey, McKernan, Longmire (not sure if he was still around) Sholl
The best sides have had key posts all the way down there spine.

Hall and O'Loughlin is very similar to Ottens and S Johnson. The others you can't compare because we just don't have that sort of quality big forwards. If Essendon had Henneman and Laycock or North had McKernan and Petrie or Brisbane had Merrett and Keating we might be able to compare. But we just DONT have the quality that these sides had. So we either try it there way with a lot of difference in ability of we try something thats suits the players we do have. We can't win the flag playing these other sides game plans with far inferior players in these key positions.

 

[Jack-Packenham]

Ok maybe Lucas was a bad call, but its hard to think of a middle class CHF. They are generally freaks, Riewoldt,Brown,Hall,Tredea or they aren't that flash.
QUOTE]

Sydney - Hall, Goodes
West Coast - Hansen
St Kilda - Reiwoldt, Hamill, Kositchske
Adelaide - Hentschell, Perrie
Melbourne - Miller
Kangaroos - Thompson, Petrie
Port Adelaide - Tredrea
Fremantle - Pavlich
Brisbane - Brown
Essendon - Lucas
Collingwood - A Rocca, T Cloke
Hawthorn - Franklin, Roughead,
Carlton - Whitnall, Fevola, Waite
Richmond - Richardson
Bulldogs - Grant
Geelong - Playfair, McCarthy

I think we would have the worst CHF options going around. I would swap our 2 guys for any other player listed above

 

[catswhiskers]

H was clearly our best option at CHF last year until injured. No-one else has shown during the pre-season that they have stepped up. H is a kid from NSW. He looked completely lost in his first season and has made big strides forward each year. One more big stride and he will need the best defender and KK and Nathan /Ottens (If he ever gets fit) will breathe a sigh of relief.
Anyway, I think Thompson had to give up a secret last week when he had to win. His no centre half forward structure . Watch the last quarter again. Milburn (champion) and Mooney (strangely business like this year) found their way forward but not in a normal forward structure.

Go Cats

 

[Turbocat]

He is warming the chair for Tom Hawkins in 2007. Even an inexperienced Hawkins will be a lot better than Henry.

You say he is clearly the best option and the last couple of weeks proved this, I disagree. To me (and all my mates who stand and watch the games) Henry is no better than what Gardiner and co have dished up in the last couple of weeks. Lonergan takes a mark and kicks it on the full. Henry would do that every week. Gardiner drops a chest mark, Henry does that most weeks. Kingsley marks and kicks to the opposition, Henry does that at least twice a game. The difference between Gardiner and Henry is that Charlie will be involved (kicks, marks and handballs) 15-20 times a game while Henry might only get 6 or 7 touches so he doesn't have as many chances too stuff up as Charlie does. Gardiner is more mobile than Henry, just as bad a decision maker, both terrible kicks and both look out of there depth.

The big difference is that Henry gets a dream run becuase he gets to use STRUCTURE as his reason for being in the team. As i Have said before, pick your best 22 players and then fill the positions. If that left us with Milburn, Mooney, S Johnson, Kingsley, G Ablett alternating through the CHF line than so be it. But don't just plonk some hack there and say he is the best we have so put up with it.

Too far jack, really.
Henry is no better than what Gardiner and co have dished up in the last couple of weeks. Lonergan takes a mark and kicks it on the full. Henry would do that every week.
Come on,this is pure fantasy. If you and you cohorts think this then you are watching the game as though you are in some drug addled haze.

What you are asking of a CHF , im not sure. Me , I would like to see strong ball retention, marks overhead under pressure from opponents, contested ball in packs when the ball comes in as a 50/50. Above all , essp. with the talented smalls we have , do not get out marked and let the ball bounce back out of the forwardline. Gardiner and Lonergan have yet to show me any hint of the type of mark the Nathan took against Freo. He did little else but he as green as an English paddock, his time will come. H has many flaws but he is better at what I expect from a CHF than either of the other two. All three have limitations, none give me the indication that they can become All Aust. so if an obvious talented youth emerges H may well lose his as the Key focus at CHF. Is this TH, only time will tell, going by the recent handling of our draftees it may be two years before you see TH playing, so I think frustrations may be around a while longer.

 

[cats56]

Too far jack, really.
Henry is no better than what Gardiner and co have dished up in the last couple of weeks. Lonergan takes a mark and kicks it on the full. Henry would do that every week.
Come on,this is pure fantasy. If you and you cohorts think this then you are watching the game as though you are in some drug addled haze.

What you are asking of a CHF , im not sure. Me , I would like to see strong ball retention, marks overhead under pressure from opponents, contested ball in packs when the ball comes in as a 50/50. Above all , essp. with the talented smalls we have , do not get out marked and let the ball bounce back out of the forwardline. Gardiner and Lonergan have yet to show me any hint of the type of mark the Nathan took against Freo. He did little else but he as green as an English paddock, his time will come. H has many flaws but he is better at what I expect from a CHF than either of the other two. All three have limitations, none give me the indication that they can become All Aust. so if an obvious talented youth emerges H may well lose his as the Key focus at CHF. Is this TH, only time will tell, going by the recent handling of our draftees it may be two years before you see TH playing, so I think frustrations may be around a while longer.

And that just about sum's it up.