Toast Heritier Lumumba pens heartfelt letter to ex-teammates, wants club to own up to mistreatment

[barrackers]

Hmmmm..... thought McGuire was referencing Heritier having heard the nickname rather than stating he was involved in the culture. Starting to better understand why the club moved Lumumba on.

The chimp accusation has came up again

Well again that was something that I'd never heard it, but I understand that was something Heritier was involved in himself

 

[ppoiter]

The apology may have already been made. I suspect information has been left out by H. To be honest I think Bucks should not have bought into it, as it’s reduced the positive focus on the pregame acknowledgement. Unfortunately H has divided when everyone was united. He needs to rise above his own experience to find true wisdom.

I agree with you and Maggie Greg that theres an element of grandstanding with this, as there usually is with him. But that doesn't mean its impossible for him to have been wronged by whoever used the name and to a lesser extent by the club. Regarding the bolded I have no idea

 

[Markfs]

Racism is just a word. It describes many horrendous events in human history as well as its daily existence. The holocaust, slavery, terra nullis, etc, etc beyond belief. The impact is still rebounding and clearly evident in the distribution of human resources. The pain is real. Unfortunately we seem to take the view racism is some sort of original and terrible sin, so chastising the perpetrator or denying the victim. As such it becomes so complex and subjective to identify. We have to forgive our ancestors, theirs and ours perpetrators and forgive ourselves: not to make it acceptable but to make it something we can look at, understand and change.

well this is the AFL so racism doesnt involve concentration camps. It usually involves someone saying something. Damien Monkhorst, Eddie. So Collingwood has a problem with it and the Western Bulldogs, for example, doesn't....because no-one there has said anything. it's a pretty simple world.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

This guy is the biggest whinging sook to walk the planet.


Whatever cause he is on about, he just goes about it in the worst way, grandstanding and pumping his own self importance up to rival that of Kanye.

If it was a serious problem, he'd talk to Buckley or McGuire. Smart move by both of them to publicly note they've tried talking to this walking disaster of a human.

 

[jmac70]

I agree with you and Maggie Greg that theres an element of grandstanding with this, as there usually is with him. But that doesn't mean its impossible for him to have been wronged by whoever used the name and to a lesser extent by the club. Regarding the bolded I have no idea

He may have been wronged in some way. A public apology is not appropriate though.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Here is Leon backing him

Leon Davis Says Heritier Lumumba's Experiences Of Racism At Collingwood Is A Continuation Of His Own Experiences

"Why it touches a nerve, why it hurts us so much, is because we've had generation upon generation of genocide and murder and all that from the very beginning."

www.buzzfeed.com

Here is Shae McNamara and Chris Egan

Ex-AFL defender Heritier Lumumba criticises Magpies, says he took mushrooms to deal with racism

‘I had the nickname Chimp’: Ex-AFL star Lumumba hits out at Pies’ ‘culture of racist jokes’

www.foxsports.com.au

Leon didn’t actually say any more that he shares his pain. He didn’t mention any particular incident.

He also says he experienced racism (internal or external not mentioned) and that he got full support of the club at the time.

It’s hardly backing up Lumumbas specific claims.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

A public apology is not appropriate though.

Why is it not appropriate, when H has been publicly discredited.

 

[sr36]

That bolded part caught my eye too, but I don’t think anyone could call a black guy ‘Chimp’ and reasonably claim it had nothing to do with race. It absolutely is possible to buy into a racist way of thinking without consciously intending any harm or malice, that’s what that situation looks like to me.

Entirely reasonable for him to feel aggrieved and I don’t see why it’s so difficult for the club to offer a simple apology to the effect that it shouldn’t have been tolerated, and wouldn’t be tolerated today.

Whilst I don't think calling someone a name, even if it's racially based, is necessarily racist - depending on the context. However, how anyone can think you shouldn't apologise if it causes offence, is beyond me.

 

[jmac70]

Why is it not appropriate, when H has been publicly discredited.

Who by?

 

[shizzle]

Some pathetic replies to this thread, very similar to the many posts on forums and on twitter in regards to players taking a knee last night. Australians once again showing how backward, hateful and denialist they are when it comes to matters of race.

 

[jmac70]

Some pathetic replies to this thread, very similar to the many posts on forums and on twitter in regards to players taking a knee last night. Australians once again showing how backward, hateful and denialist they are when it comes to matters of race.

Can you give some examples?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Some pathetic replies to this thread, very similar to the many posts on forums and on twitter in regards to players taking a knee last night. Australians once again showing how backward, hateful and denialist they are when it comes to matters of race.

It's not so much about race but Heritier. Like Beams, though for different reasons, he is not everyone's cup of tea. I am happy to let the club determine the appropriate response.

I am surprised anyone objected to the taking of the knee. I suppose many failed to understand why an American issue had suddenly become a universal one, but I don't think many Australians would object to a gesture against racism.

 

[jathanas]

Leon didn’t actually say any more that he shares his pain. He didn’t mention any particular incident.

He also says he experienced racism (internal or external not mentioned) and that he got full support of the club at the time.

It’s hardly backing up Lumumbas specific claims.

True, there is no concrete proof of a specific incident in that article but there is lots of empathy and compassion. Perhaps that should be our position and if that's not possible at least an open mind. As you've mentioned Leon said it happened to him as well, the very least we can do is hear them out.

"
...

"I went through all that as well, and it's disappointing because what happened to (Lumumba) happened to me early in my career,"

Davis still doesn't feel comfortable going public with the details of what he experienced, but says it was dealt with strongly at the time by the club. He says he still has a good relationship with Collingwood, and its management.

But it was a source of pain for him to hear how his friend and former teammate had been treated.

"I share his pain, I share his grief," Davis said. "Anything that offends him, offends me.

"We're both black and it's something we've known too well our whole life. It's not like we wake up white and fit in. But we should fit in. There's nothing wrong with us at all."

He said Lumumba's experiences showed people within the club "had to be willing to learn and not be in denial".

..."

 

[jmac70]

 

[jmac70]

View attachment 891247

Hertier’s tweet about this photo from the club - “Except for ones that speak out.”

Says everything you need to know about him.

 

[Finnishpie]

It depends if you believe his account of what happened. I don’t.

Having met him in a non-footy environment when we discussed such things, i do. Okay, some people have thicker skins than others, but what wouldn’t you believe him? What has he to gain?

 

[Finnishpie]

If I’m going to apologise for something I need to know and agree what I am apologising for.

sure, I agree with that, which is why I said “if” this happened. And I haven’t read denials from the club. Have they done so?

 

[Finnishpie]

This guy is the biggest whinging sook to walk the planet.


Whatever cause he is on about, he just goes about it in the worst way, grandstanding and pumping his own self importance up to rival that of Kanye.

If it was a serious problem, he'd talk to Buckley or McGuire. Smart move by both those for them to say they've tried talking to this walking disaster of a human.

you sound like you’re whinging and sooking yourself a bit there though.....

 

[sr36]

Some pathetic replies to this thread, very similar to the many posts on forums and on twitter in regards to players taking a knee last night. Australians once again showing how backward, hateful and denialist they are when it comes to matters of race.

Other Australians seem to have forgotten about the innocent until proven guilty ethos that we all grew up with and an accusation has become proof of guilt

 

[Finnishpie]

True, there is no concrete proof of a specific incident in that article but there is lots of empathy and compassion. Perhaps that should be our position and if that's not possible at least an open mind. As you've mentioned Leon said it happened to him as well, the very least we can do is hear them out.

"
...

"I went through all that as well, and it's disappointing because what happened to (Lumumba) happened to me early in my career,"

Davis still doesn't feel comfortable going public with the details of what he experienced, but says it was dealt with strongly at the time by the club. He says he still has a good relationship with Collingwood, and its management.

But it was a source of pain for him to hear how his friend and former teammate had been treated.

"I share his pain, I share his grief," Davis said. "Anything that offends him, offends me.

"We're both black and it's something we've known too well our whole life. It's not like we wake up white and fit in. But we should fit in. There's nothing wrong with us at all."

He said Lumumba's experiences showed people within the club "had to be willing to learn and not be in denial".

..."

one reason players don’t want to go public is they getbullied relentlessly by media, club figures and half the public. Why would you?

 

[jmac70]

Having met him in a non-footy environment when we discussed such things, i do. Okay, some people have thicker skins than others, but what wouldn’t you believe him? What has he to gain?

I believe parts of his account, but also believe he is choosing to tell the truth that suits his narrative. He’s after exposure, he’s not being reasonable. The coach reached out last night, the club wants to listen. He’s not willing to try and mend and heal. He wants the militant view. I accept that from Aboriginal Australians because their land was taken by force. I won’t accept that from H.

 

[1soffa]

Throwing rocks from twitter does not build credibility. Bucks should of actually ignored the whole thing. Best way to deal with his juvenile behaviour.

You come across as a one eyed supporter. I love it. Belittling the accuser doesn't remove the accusation. Ignoring the problem will not remove it. If even 2% of Heritier's claims are true whether it comes out 1, 2 or ten years from now the mud will stick on the pies, particularly Eddie and Bucks. If this is nothing to his claims then say so. Deal with it now.

On this one eyed stuff. I love my wife. Over the last 15 years a hot girl has morphed to bordering obese. Cowboy is out, my poor old bones are brittle. It is a truth: neither of us want to look at it, I dare not discuss it. I love her guts. Amazing person. Not perfect. I support the pies. Unfortunately we have warts. Not sure my love for the pies justifies ignoring them.

well this is the AFL so racism doesnt involve concentration camps. It usually involves someone saying something. Damien Monkhorst, Eddie. So Collingwood has a problem with it and the Western Bulldogs, for example, doesn't....because no-one there has said anything. it's a pretty simple world.

Geesuss. I admit to rarely having a grasp on where you are coming from. The most obtuse poster on this list and possibly the most interesting for mine.

I have absolutely no grip on what you are saying or how it related to my post. I am tempted to respond that of course racism doesn't involve concentration camps amongst the AFL but that the racist viewpoint does. That the Western Bulldogs have absolutely nothing to do with the pies in this respect: our dirty laundry (or clean) is ours. That there is nothing simple about this world, as our understanding and knowledge increases so does the recognition of the complexity. Still none of that may have anything to do with what you are on about.

I will add this Markfs. I had a chat with the beloved just now, who is employed as an indigenous educator in our region. She laughed at the notion K07's apology meant nothing. She told me it changed things for her, as it did for me. She told me it changed things for the elders and communities she works amongst. She told me if child A is distraught because child B walks through their magnificent lego building an apology doesn't take the pain away but it changes everything if child B says sorry because it gives child A recognition of said pain. If we thought Kevin07's apology would be the end of any discussion or complaints that was our illusion. If we did it or thought it was done with that purpose in mind we were blind. It didn't solve the problem, it only created the grounds to start the conversation.

I have a deep suspicion there is a lot of truth in Heritier's story. That in raising his experience in team meetings he opened a conversation and got silence. The club needs to reopen the conversation. Not on their terms, in their territory or in their time but his. If their is any truth to his story then lets do it. Or not. No wishy/washy lets sit down bs.

 

[jmac70]

You come across as a one eyed supporter. I love it. Belittling the accuser doesn't remove the accusation. Ignoring the problem will not remove it. If even 2% of Heritier's claims are true whether it comes out 1, 2 or ten years from now the mud will stick on the pies, particularly Eddie and Bucks. If this is nothing to his claims then say so. Deal with it now.

On this one eyed stuff. I love my wife. Over the last 15 years a hot girl has morphed to bordering obese. Cowboy is out, my poor old bones are brittle. It is a truth: neither of us want to look at it, I dare not discuss it. I love her guts. Amazing person. Not perfect. I support the pies. Unfortunately we have warts. Not sure my love for the pies justifies ignoring them.



Geesuss. I admit to rarely having a grasp on where you are coming from. The most obtuse poster on this list and possibly the most interesting for mine.

I have absolutely no grip on what you are saying or how it related to my post. I am tempted to respond that of course racism doesn't involve concentration camps amongst the AFL but that the racist viewpoint does. That the Western Bulldogs have absolutely nothing to do with the pies in this respect: our dirty laundry (or clean) is ours. That there is nothing simple about this world, as our understanding and knowledge increases so does the recognition of the complexity. Still none of that may have anything to do with what you are on about.

I will add this Markfs. I had a chat with the beloved just now, who is employed as an indigenous educator in our region. She laughed at the notion K07's apology meant nothing. She told me it changed things for her, as it did for me. She told me it changed things for the elders and communities she works amongst. She told me if child A is distraught because child B walks through their magnificent lego building an apology doesn't take the pain away but it changes everything if child B says sorry because it gives child A recognition of said pain. If we thought Kevin07's apology would be the end of any discussion or complaints that was our illusion. If we did it or thought it was done with that purpose in mind we were blind. It didn't solve the problem, it only created the grounds to start the conversation.

I have a deep suspicion there is a lot of truth in Heritier's story. That in raising his experience in team meetings he opened a conversation and got silence. The club needs to reopen the conversation. Not on their terms, in their territory or in their time but his. If their is any truth to his story then lets do it. Or not. No wishy/washy lets sit down bs.

I have not belittled him. I believe he was called a chimp by some of his teammates, and I am strongly opposed to that. I don’t know what conversations took place during this time. I’m very confident there is a lot more to this than he is saying. What I can see is a clear attempt to hurt the club.

 

[Finnishpie]

I believe parts of his account, but also believe he is choosing to tell the truth that suits his narrative. He’s after exposure, he’s not being reasonable. The coach reached out last night, the club wants to listen. He’s not willing to try and mend and heal. He wants the militant view. I accept that from Aboriginal Australians because their land was taken by force. I won’t accept that from H.

I usually agree with you Jmac, but not on this one. This just brings a whole load of s**t On you (Lumumba) when you raise these things. It’s a nightmare to anyone whose been in that situation.

listening to Bickley‘s Presser, it sounded like a pretty soft admittance of what H was claiming: “we’ve changed.....we’re now welcoming....” etc.

look, I’m a pies fanatic, but this is a chance to do the right thing
’

 

[JB007]

As I said on the first page of this thread I follow Heritier on Instagram........his journey in life is an interesting one to me.

He had an exchange with a Pies supporter a few hours ago on Insta that sums up this situation.

I am a very loyal person and I implore my Club to stay silent on this matter......