high draft picks..

[cubzy]

just looking over some recent drafts (last 7 or 8 years) and it isnt hard to see that theres been a lot of quality players drafted with low picks and a lot of misses in the top 5-10.. nothing new i know

but raises the question, is it that clubs arent chosing well, or or is it that some clubs simply develop players far better than others? do you really need to bottom out to rebuild?


geelongs midfield:
ablett - father son
bartel - 8
joel corey - 7
selwood - 7

hawthorn midfield:
lewis - 7
mitchell - 36
bateman - 48
sewell: rookie

the point is, need to spend less time worrying about the players we have "missed" and more into how to develop our own better.

 

[coke_zero]

the point is, need to spend less time worrying about the players we have "missed" and more into how to develop our own better.

agree, once we draft someone we dont need to worry about who we missed, we just need to develop the player that we picked.

 

[beaver fever]

Having higher picks gives you greater odds at finding the best players available. As the picks get higher and higher, a lot of the players are rated very similar and it becomes much tougher to pick the gems from the ore. Having a well resourced recruitment department that works in unison with the clear vision and strategy of the list management department is also important in identifying the best juniors. Richmond's problem has been that we have had neither very low picks or a well resourced list management/recruitment division.

Recently we have made improvements to ensuring this division is adequately resourced, but there is still more that needs to be done. We firstly need to hire a list manager and also recruit more talent identifiers. I also think they should work in conjunction with the coaches (i.e. player developers) so we can better identify what we need. We also need to set a clear list management vision and strategy with a philosophy of balanced footballers with good kicking skills. I think our first issue we need to tackle is the deplorable state of our talls.

 

[bigstyletiger]

Good point Cubzy. It seems to have been like this for a while. Our list looks ok on paper but we continually underperform.

I would not be surprised if Tambling went to another club and played well - just like Rodan did when he left, and probably just like Danny Meyer will at port as well.

I would also not be surprised that if we change coaching staff and spend a little more on fitness and conditioning we will see our players really come on.

Still a big win over melbourne might be all we need to get the ball rolling. can't help but see paralells between this season and last. I was calling for TW's head after the first few rounds but by the end of the season i thought we were going places and could match it with just about any side. It's bizarre really.

 

[beaver fever]

Good point Cubzy. It seems to have been like this for a while. Our list looks ok on paper but we continually underperform.

I would not be surprised if Tambling went to another club and played well - just like Rodan did when he left, and probably just like Danny Meyer will at port as well.

I would also not be surprised that if we change coaching staff and spend a little more on fitness and conditioning we will see our players really come on.

Still a big win over melbourne might be all we need to get the ball rolling. can't help but see paralells between this season and last. I was calling for TW's head after the first few rounds but by the end of the season i thought we were going places and could match it with just about any side. It's bizarre really.

What is bizarre is your thinking that beating all the sides under us means we can match it with just about any side. We copped floggings from most of the top 8. One win against top 8 opposition shows that we are a midtable side at best and a bottom 4 side at worst.

 

[cubzy]

yeh agreed higher draft picks obviously gives you better chances of getting stand out players, my point is though that you shouldnt look at drafts to see who we could have had at our club and look at it as an excuse or a recruiting failure, but find out why our own picks arent reaching (at the moment) the heights we had hoped.

 

[bigstyletiger]

Beaver we don't have deplorable talls accross the board. Our backline talls in Thursty, McGuane and Moore were very good last season. McGuane has taken another step while Rance has come in and shown he could be a very handy player. Not to mention J Post who is showing plenty down back and a little up forward and on the wing in the 2's. We also have Shulz who has played better footy in the backline than the forward line and Polak could yet come back. I'm not sure many clubs would have the depth of backline talls that we do.

It's the forwards and rucks that are a real concern however Hughes could still make it and when he does play and is positioned correctly he does straighten us up, while Putt, Gourdis and even Vickery are all potential full forwards. Putt a potential CHF. Maybe not a graders but could be serviceable.

Unfortunatley our ruck division has a massive hole in it but in a couple of years it might actually be quite strong. Vickery has lots of potential but will need time in the gym and Browne has shown a bit for a first year rookie. Even Angus played a half decent game on the weekend and might still make it yet while Patto is a good back up ruckman to have on the list.

I seem to recall that there are some decent talls coming through the draft this year so we may be lucky and pick ourselves a quality forward which could potentially have a pretty big impact on the club. Or one of Post, Putt, Gourdis could really come on. I wouldn't put it past Posty that's for sure.

 

[beaver fever]

Crack a Chubzy I think you need to look at both.

 

[beaver fever]

Look biggie smalls the structure may look ok, but in terms of quality we are severally lacking. Half those names you put up are bonofide duds. I have already in other threads said what I think of our talls many times, I don't want to repeat it, but I think best case scenario we have about 7 talls to work with going forward. About 9-10 short of where we need to be.

 

[bigstyletiger]

What is bizarre is your thinking that beating all the sides under us means we can match it with just about any side. We copped floggings from most of the top 8. One win against top 8 opposition shows that we are a midtable side at best and a bottom 4 side at worst.

Fair enough point - I was banking on improvement over the offseason - another preseason into the youngsters. A little bit of confidence. I didn't think we were ready to make finals last year but was hoping we would continue to improve and actually beat some top 8 sides this year. It's still not out of the question. I was as sickened as anybody by rounds 1 and 3 but every side will put in a shocker or two. Even the cats did last year when they were smacked by the pies. i was at that game and the cats intensity was very similar to the tigers in round 1. it happens.

I think that if the club learns from it's drafting mistakes and chooses players who can primarily make good decisions and use the ball well and somehow finds a genuine tall forward we could turn things around pretty quickly. No more drafting JONs because he is a freak athlete. No more drafting Kings because he is a freak competitor.

 

[bigstyletiger]

Granted the forwards are speculative but i'm pretty sure that the back line talls will be decent. West Coast won a flag without an a grade tall forward. The dogs are getting close. The hawks fixed their forward line issues in one draft. In other words the situation is probably not diabolical.

 

[coke_zero]

No more drafting Kings because he is a freak competitor.

we got king from the rookie list. although not the best football player. we got him for nothing, so why are you complaining?

 

[beaver fever]

I think if the club is going to turn it around it is going to take much much more than that. This problem goes deeper than simply getting recruitment right. Player development, leadership, culture, strength and conditioning, list management, coaching, recruitment etc at the we moment do not have a unifying vision or strategy. Unfortunately that means we are going to have to face the fact that the list is not good enough, and if we want it to be good enough we're going to have to dig deep and put up with more pain for at least another 5 years. The players have become too individually orientated and this culture will continue to hold us back.

I don't think Wallace ever stood a chance with the poor resources and the strategy implemented, but we need to recognise that it has failed, and we need to act sooner rather than later. A new coach must be found, and I would put in a temporary one for the rest of the year. We need to put through a thorough process to find the right one, and it needs to be a new face from outside the club. At the end of the season the entire coaching staff, player development staff and player conditioning staff need to be reviewed and changes made. The football department need to coordinate and implement a unifying vision and strategy that works towards building and developing a premiership list. We have the base now to build upon that we did not in 2004.

In terms of on-field changes, many senior players need to be gaspared, and a full blown youth policy implemented. At the end of the season we need a big clean out. With the GC and WS coming in it will make getting the best kids in much harder, but on the flip side of that is if we get a priority pick it would come before GC concessions, and that would be a massive advantage over the rest of the competition. We also need to learn how to offload our fringe players for picks, because at the moment it is all one way traffic.

There are heaps of other things I have missed, so as you can see this problem has a very complication solution.

 

[Mario Speedwagon]

I think if the club is going to turn it around it is going to take much much more than that. This problem goes deeper than simply getting recruitment right. Player development, leadership, culture, strength and conditioning, list management, coaching, recruitment etc at the we moment do not have a unifying vision or strategy. Unfortunately that means we are going to have to face the fact that the list is not good enough, and if we want it to be good enough we're going to have to dig deep and put up with more pain for at least another 5 years. The players have become too individually orientated and this culture will continue to hold us back.

I've been telling you that for a year BF, doesn't matter who we draft while we have all those other issues. Until they are sorted we could jump in a time machine and come back with the AFL Team of the Century and still manage turn them all to shit.

 

[smokin35]

"..........With the GC and WS coming in it will make getting the best kids in much harder, but on the flip side of that is if we get a priority pick it would come before GC concessions, and that would be a massive advantage over the rest of the competition. We also need to learn how to offload our fringe players for picks, because at the moment it is all one way traffic."



You are a w***er Beaver.......why would you want to bottom out and get some priority picks. You have no idea if you think we should get priority picks......that means winning less than 5 games this year and the next.

Can you piss off and barrack for someone else because we don't need you as a supporter. You'll probably go and delivery chicken poo to Punt Rd next.

 

[beaver fever]

Smokin Bone better try something else I've heard that typical line ad nauseum.

 

[THE_GUN]

Wallace got the full support of the richmond football club since his arrival

wallace selected most of the players on the current list or instructed the recruiting staff on what type of players he wanted - soft outside runners

wallace and his assistants are totally responsible for the playing list
i was a terry wallace supporter until last monday where he stated that begining of the year he didnt expect to beat geelong & bulldogs WHY

wallace,royal,rawlings can all f*** off as far as im concerned, i love the rfc & always will but wallace will not take us to the next levell he is too soft.

we need a hard nut that the players sh!t themselfs when they speak to him.

if anybody can remember paul roos speaking to barry hall with about an inch between them and halls eyes told me that what paul roos says goes.

we need a coach who demands results not requests it from the players & the players need to accept that if they dont improve every year they will be cast off for players that are prepared to work to improve.

our skills are primary school standard,brian royal has been interviewed for a lot of coaching positions & not appointed to 1 WHY but we still have this bloke incharge of our players for how long now............ WHY

rawlings was a dud player and is a dud coach compare him to collins when coaching coburg ...........i know which bloke i would rather have at the club.

our players are not developed WHY.............because of the people that are above mentioned.
hardwick , buckley , malthouse , mathews , these are the TYPE of coaches we need. not softies like

geishen,walls,frawley,wallace...............ffs richmond get somebody with BALLS

 

[1980GFVideo]

We focus on the picking of Tambling at number 4 but ive never read anyone ask who the hell was given the job of making sure that he learnt how to play the game. David King would blast his teammates if he felt they were soft. Has he spoken the truth to Tambling.

Its not like they had nothing to work with given what he did pre draft.

I was hoping someone like Cousins would get into Tambling and show him how a bloke with Cousins talent was more likely to work harder BECAUSE of it.

id rather see him doing that than his bloody documentary. I felt he may be able to help our underperforming assistant coaches.

 

[L_J_T]

Im still in shock about what I read in the paper....

JON = Pick 8
Shauny Higgins = Pick 11

Now that is a massive **** up, what the **** were the recruiters thinking.
The problem isn't with the Coach entirely...it's those ****ing recruiters...piss them off and start a fresh i reckon.