Analysis How bad has our form been?

[Love the Drake]

We cannot sugar coat how bad we are. For whatever reason we are 0-7. We have no depth and our players continue to get injured. We have paid peanuts for our recruits, and the quality is just not there. Yes we have talented youth, but so do most teams.

We desperately need to trade in QUALITY players in the 22-25 y.o bracket. Add this to our youth and expected high draft picks for this year and 2019, and we have added four quality players plus hopefully got 30-40 games in to our youngsters. Then, and only then, will we start our climb up the ladder.

 

[Wickzki]

We desperately need to trade in QUALITY players in the 22-25 y.o bracket. Add this to our youth and expected high draft picks for this year and 2019, and we have added four quality players plus hopefully got 30-40 games in to our youngsters. Then, and only then, will we start our climb up the ladder.

How do we trade it in?

We don't have much value in our 24+ year bracket.

Who has more trade value than long-term value to the football club?

 

[Love the Drake]

How do we trade it in?

We don't have much value in our 24+ year bracket.

Who has more trade value than long-term value to the football club?

We trade them in via RFA and DFA; they cost us nothing (apart from cash). SOS has saved up a stack of cash. The three year culling has been completed. Now it is time to spend..

 

[ferrisb]

I don't see form as truly relevant until we have a realistic, competitive team on the park

I agree, somewhat.

But does our form not suggest that (injuries aside) the timeframe for that happening (realistic, competitive team) is further out than we expected?

Or does the timeframe not matter? We are getting in talent, we are playing the kids. It will (should) all come together at some point. And that happens when it happens?

 

[Jabba73]

I agree.

But does our form not suggest that (injuries aside) the timeframe for that happening is further out than we expected?

Would our form be the same without the injuries?

 

[Cripps17]

How many of the following -- Rowe, Wright, Casboult, Jones, Phillips, Mullett, O'Shea, Lamb, Kerridge (9 of 13) -- would get a game in one of the top 9 sides?

Six of those were brought in by the current regime and the other three have been given extended contracts. Top sides are not devoid of role players, we need to target and develop ours better.

 

[ferrisb]

Would our form be the same without the injuries?

Pretty safe to assume our form would be much better without injuries. But every team would be better without injuries.

Of course, we're near the top of the 'injury ladder' and it can be argued that it's not just the # of injuries, but the who (Pickett cost us speed - bye bye JLT gameplan, Murph (and Lang) cost us midfield depth, Kennedy cost us inside support for Cripps/Ed etc). For some/many of our injuries, we have lost players that we could ill afford to lose; more so than other teams' injuries because of our youth and lack of depth.

But being unable to cover injuries is not a reflection of bad luck, it's a reflection of a list that isn't good enough. With too many holes and not enough talent to cover.

Of course, I expect our team to get better as our talented kids age and we lose fewer talented oldies vs peers. But until that happens, our team/list simply isnt good enough right now.

EDIT: Unless you had extraordinarily bad expectations for the year, I think we have underperformed. Ignoring injuries and it's been a disaster. Accounting for injuries, yes, it explains a lot. But it also paints a pretty grim picture of where we're at (even given the injuries).

 

[El Topo]

Our injuries are horrendous atm. It is hard to see this getting worse.

you had to say it...

 

[pinot]

All the excuses aside

Performances have been somewhere in between unacceptable to non competitive

 

[james Dean]

We are a basket case, we have not been in a winning position in any game this year.

 

[Jabba73]

Pretty safe to assume our form would be much better without injuries. But every team would be better without injuries.

Of course, we're near the top of the 'injury ladder' and it can be argued that it's not just the # of injuries, but the who (Pickett cost us speed - bye bye JLT gameplan, Murph (and Lang) cost us midfield depth, Kennedy cost us inside support for Cripps/Ed etc). For some/many of our injuries, we have lost players that we could ill afford to lose; more so than other teams' injuries because of our youth and lack of depth.

But being unable to cover injuries is not a reflection of bad luck, it's a reflection of a list that isn't good enough. With too many holes and not enough talent to cover.

Of course, I expect our team to get better as our talented kids age and we lose fewer talented oldies vs peers. But until that happens, our team/list simply isnt good enough right now.

EDIT: Unless you had extraordinarily bad expectations for the year, I think we have underperformed. Ignoring injuries and it's been a disaster. Accounting for injuries, yes, it explains a lot. But it also paints a pretty grim picture of where we're at (even given the injuries).

Byrne ASOS Weitering
Williamson Marchbank Doc

Not often a team has an entire defence missing that is arguably better than the one playing.

That would hurt any side in the competition. We are lucky to have enough depth to cover them all.

Things are not as grim as they seem. No team can be expected to cover for as many players missing as we have.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

All the excuses aside

Performances have been somewhere in between unacceptable to non competitive

How do you explain us not getting beaten by more than 100 this week just gone then? Because on paper and the talk all across our board was that we will be destroyed. I get 55 points isnt ideal but id suggest we didnt lose by what all had expexted.

 

[pinot]

How do you explain us not getting beaten by more than 100 this week just gone then? Because on paper and the talk all across our board was that we will be destroyed. I get 55 points isnt ideal but id suggest we didnt lose by what all had expexted.

You can accept these performances - doesn't mean I will. Each to their own.

 

[dumb]

you've spun it pretty well. aside from north, we haven't really been blown off the park. we haven't really been in a winning position though either.
our best parts of games seem to be where we come back from about 5-6 goals down to 2-3 goals down. teams get away from us and we'll battle it out at that 5-6 goal margin much of the game.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Considering the injury toll especially in game injuries on top of an already big list W/L results so far this year are now somewhat irrelevant .
Not going to win games with the current makeup of the past few weeks and for most likely the next few weeks also . Only looking for individual improvements and exposure for the young players that are still in the side .

We now because of the injury toll have bunkered down and its all about damage control until we get some key inclusion back through the middle of the ground and some match fitness into a few that have been returning from injury .

Been some very good signs of continuing improvement from Charlie Fish Paddy Dow Harry and Lochie but weve also had a few younguns struggling Weits SPS Byrne before injury .
Even though the injury list has been horrible and results/ladder are mirroring were we are at right now .
We are a young bottom 4 list with a massive injury list no surprises we are on the bottom of the ladder .
However the skill level of the side in general is still not acceptable .
For that the coaches need to take some responsibility here its been a constant of Carlton sides for so long now .
Going into the third year of our rebuild under Bolton and a high host of top rated assistants that is something i would have hoped would be an improvement no matter who is on the field . Executing the basic skills and restricting the horific errors that have been a trait of Carlton sides for so long .
So far this year not to be .
If we can get somewhere near our best side on the field and some continuity with a settled side for a few weeks we may get some wins towards the end of the year .
But tbh im not holding my breath as i have now no confidence whatsoever in the fitness staff and the ability of the club in general in keeping its players fit .
And having somewhere near our best side on the field most weeks .
Probably more question marks to be explained off the field than on imo .

 

[Gethelred]

All the excuses aside

Performances have been somewhere in between unacceptable to non competitive

All you can ask for is consistency, and you're delivering in spades.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

You can accept these performances - doesn't mean I will. Each to their own.

So what do we do in week 8 that will make you accept our permance? And don't say win.

 

[Gethelred]

You can accept these performances - doesn't mean I will. Each to their own.

Not sure what difference you think my or others personal 'acceptance' - your word; I wouldn't describe my attitude towards our results as acceptance, more acknowledgement of the facts - or your lack thereof will make to the Carlton 22's fortunes against Essendon, or why you seem to think that anything we do has any influence out there.

 

[El Topo]

Here's a hot take... Various posters quite rightly compare 'New Carlton' to an expansion side, given how the club has stripped the list back and started virtually from scratch. I think Carlton 2018 is actually comparable to *FC circa 2016, where a crisis of available personnel forced them to fast track a squad of yougsters and top ups. They were belted at the time but it's hard to say it wasn't a long term positive for their playing list.

 

[HBF]

I don't see form as truly relevant until we have a realistic, competitive team on the park

More talent in the 24 to 28 age bracket would help as well. Think we need to hit FA hard this year.

 

[Wickzki]

We trade them in via RFA and DFA; they cost us nothing (apart from cash). SOS has saved up a stack of cash. The three year culling has been completed. Now it is time to spend..

That accounts for one or two players (more than likely). There was a grand total of eight players who changed clubs via free agency last year. Four of them (Rockliff, McKenzie, Motlop, and Trengrove) went to Port. Billy Hartung found a new home via the draft. Buckley was picked up via the rookie draft.

Ideally, you'd be looking at signing players who are 27 and under right now. Otherwise, they're guaranteed placeholders like Mullett, O'Shea, etc. as they'll be 30+ by the time we enter our potential premiership window.

That gives me a list of 20 unrestricted and restricted free agents.

Key position: Jordan Roughead, Tom McDonald, Ryan Schoenmakers, Tom Lynch,

Defenders: Reece Conca, Sam Wright

Small to medium sized non-permanent mids: Luke Dahlhaus, Shaun Atley, Taylor Duryea,

Forwards: Dan Menzel, Alex Fasolo, Ryan Lester,

Permanent mids: Mitchell Wallis, Tom Liberatore, Andrew Gaff, Cam Guthrie, George Horlin-Smith, Rory Sloane

Rucks: Scott Lycett


Which of these players are realistically

A. Going to be signable to Carlton
B. Worth signing at a front ended salary (front-loaded to enable better list management moving forward)
C. Going to improve the best 22 from day one next season

It's pretty slim pickings when you narrow it down.

 

[Love the Drake]

That accounts for one or two players (more than likely). There was a grand total of eight players who changed clubs via free agency last year. Four of them (Rockliff, McKenzie, Motlop, and Trengrove) went to Port. Billy Hartung found a new home via the draft. Buckley was picked up via the rookie draft.

Ideally, you'd be looking at signing players who are 27 and under right now. Otherwise, they're guaranteed placeholders like Mullett, O'Shea, etc. as they'll be 30+ by the time we enter our potential premiership window.

That gives me a list of 20 unrestricted and restricted free agents.

Key position: Jordan Roughead, Tom McDonald, Ryan Schoenmakers, Tom Lynch,

Defenders: Reece Conca, Sam Wright

Small to medium sized non-permanent mids: Luke Dahlhaus, Shaun Atley, Taylor Duryea,

Forwards: Dan Menzel, Alex Fasolo, Ryan Lester,

Permanent mids: Mitchell Wallis, Tom Liberatore, Andrew Gaff, Cam Guthrie, George Horlin-Smith, Rory Sloane

Rucks: Scott Lycett


Which of these players are realistically

A. Going to be signable to Carlton
B. Worth signing at a front ended salary (front-loaded to enable better list management moving forward)
C. Going to improve the best 22 from day one next season

It's pretty slim pickings when you narrow it down.

We should go hard at Andrew Gaff. He’s a Victorian. He’s an onballer (mainly outside which we desperately need). He’s quick. He has great disposal. He is a brilliant trainer and excellent role model. Easily covers off on A B C.
Then we pick best onballer with our first draft pick and hopefully SOS finds a mature age 21-22 y.o onballer (like Geelongs Kelly) with a later pick.
Same again in 2019 and we have four, hopefully six players that will meet A B C

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Pretty safe to assume our form would be much better without injuries. But every team would be better without injuries.

Of course, we're near the top of the 'injury ladder' and it can be argued that it's not just the # of injuries, but the who (Pickett cost us speed - bye bye JLT gameplan, Murph (and Lang) cost us midfield depth, Kennedy cost us inside support for Cripps/Ed etc). For some/many of our injuries, we have lost players that we could ill afford to lose; more so than other teams' injuries because of our youth and lack of depth.

But being unable to cover injuries is not a reflection of bad luck, it's a reflection of a list that isn't good enough. With too many holes and not enough talent to cover.

Of course, I expect our team to get better as our talented kids age and we lose fewer talented oldies vs peers. But until that happens, our team/list simply isnt good enough right now.

EDIT: Unless you had extraordinarily bad expectations for the year, I think we have underperformed. Ignoring injuries and it's been a disaster. Accounting for injuries, yes, it explains a lot. But it also paints a pretty grim picture of where we're at (even given the injuries).

Heard Doc say in that long radio interview that our current starting midfield is Dow (1st year), O'Brien (1st year), Fisher (2nd year), SPS (2nd year), with Cripps (only 23yo and 66 games) and Ed as our senior mids. Chuck Kennedy in there (21yo and 24 games), who also seems to be playing injured and it's any wonder we're struggling. And that's before you get to the bookends.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Take an injury hatchet of 15 (as of last week) to ANY list of 46 players in the comp (33% of TOTAL list) and watch the results/form/gameplan fall away .....

FMD some campaigners are so delusional.

 

[Jabba73]

Take an injury hatchet of 15 (as of last week) to ANY list of 46 players in the comp (33% of TOTAL list) and watch the results/form/gameplan fall away .....

FMD some campaigners are so delusional.

Media or BF campaigners?

Asking for a friend