How can North Melbourne select Luke McDonald with a second round draft pick?

[Wild Bill]

Its been talked about a lot on our board and I think most of us just realize we probably don't have anything that we would willingly give up that would interest GWS to get the deal done. So most have moved on the thing we need, IMO nearly just as much. Some class through the midfield.

I would like the Roos to make a run at Boyd - maybe we could swap pick 5 for 1 and add a player. I would even look at Goldstein to get Boyd to the Roos. We are overdue to make a move to get us out of this mediocre rut.

 

[doggies ftw]

Saints would have to rate him in the very top echelon of this years draft to nominate him at 4. This effectively upgrades the Dogs and North's pick in the open draft. The Saints also shelve an pick early which could have been tradeable. As far as the open draft goes the Dogs would be massive winners in this scenario improving their options. If Boyd really is that 'one in a generation' forward you can bet the Dogs and North will make a bid and their chances enhanced thanks to the Saints who have chosen not to be in a position to bid.

I'm pretty sure that most clubs would think that McDonald is right up there though, hasn't had the best year but its not like he has anything to prove like some others, hes most likely just cruising through the year knowing that he has a definite spot on a list next year. And I honestly don't think we will put in a bid for Boyd, I'd love to get him for the right price but lets be honest GWS are campaigners and they wont just give him away, some of the trades on our board for him are ridiculous, what would be the point of us chucking them a Roughead or Dahlhaus and just opening more holes in our list when a lot of us feel that some class and run through the midfield is just as big a need as a key forward.

I see the Saints and the Dogs in pretty similar positions when it comes to needs this year, both would love Boyd but probably don't have anything theyd willingly give up that would get him, and both need run and class in the midfield. Even if players like Scharenberg or Billings or similar are rated higher I would still prefer to end up with McDonald than them, the only two in the draft I would prefer would be Aish and Boyd who are both extremely likely to be gone. No way would I be letting North (who are going to be one of our main rivals when we eventually get back up the ladder) get away with a freebie like that. And I can't see the Dogs or the Saints trading their top pick for anything when we both need quality young players on the list, so locking away that pick at the start of trade week isn't a big deal.

Also there are going to be plenty of options at our 2nd rounders for a KPF like McCarthy, Harvey, Conlon, etc. Now they might not be as good as Boyd but whose to say they won't end up better? Why would we trade out all our best proven (well more proven then an undrafted 18 year old anyway) young players (which is want GWS will want for the pick) just to get some kid who might break his leg in his first game or end up as a spud (and we have had plenty of spud high draft pick KPFs over the years) I would prefer to get McDonald + McCarthy/Harvey/Conlon than make some ridiculous trade to try to get Boyd.

 

[Wild Bill]

I'm pretty sure that most clubs would think that McDonald is right up there though, hasn't had the best year but its not like he has anything to prove like some others, hes most likely just cruising through the year knowing that he has a definite spot on a list next year. And I honestly don't think we will put in a bid for Boyd, I'd love to get him for the right price but lets be honest GWS are sillys and they wont just give him away, some of the trades on our board for him are ridiculous, what would be the point of us chucking them a Roughead or Dahlhaus and just opening more holes in our list when a lot of us feel that some class and run through the midfield is just as big a need as a key forward.

I see the Saints and the Dogs in pretty similar positions when it comes to needs this year, both would love Boyd but probably don't have anything theyd willingly give up that would get him, and both need run and class in the midfield. Even if players like Scharenberg or Billings or similar are rated higher I would still prefer to end up with McDonald than them, the only two in the draft I would prefer would be Aish and Boyd who are both extremely likely to be gone. No way would I be letting North (who are going to be one of our main rivals when we eventually get back up the ladder) get away with a freebie like that. And I can't see the Dogs or the Saints trading their top pick for anything when we both need quality young players on the list, so locking away that pick at the start of trade week isn't a big deal.

Also there are going to be plenty of options at our 2nd rounders for a KPF like McCarthy, Harvey, Conlon, etc. Now they might not be as good as Boyd but whose to say they won't end up better? Why would we trade out all our best proven (well more proven then an undrafted 18 year old anyway) young players (which is want GWS will want for the pick) just to get some kid who might break his leg in his first game or end up as a spud (and we have had plenty of spud high draft pick KPFs over the years) I would prefer to get McDonald + McCarthy/Harvey/Conlon than make some ridiculous trade to try to get Boyd.

I think Boyd will be the superstar they are talking about. Right there with Jessie Hogan.

The interesting thing with GWS and the Dees is that with Boyd that would not be filling a great need.

GWS have Patton, Cameron set as their KPF for the next 10 years and potentially Buddy added at season ends. They need mature bodies like the Suns have to help bring the kids along.

Dees - have Clark, Hogan and Dawes. Adding Boyd to that foward line and overlooking at Aish? Not sure that would happen when class in their midfield is required.

How happy would the Saints or Dogs be if they bid 3 for McDonald and ended up with him and then watched Boyd slide to 4? Especially if McDonald is not rated by the clubs as a top 4 pick.

 

[manny100]

I think Boyd will be the superstar they are talking about. Right there with Jessie Hogan.

The interesting thing with GWS and the Dees is that with Boyd that would not be filling a great need.

GWS have Patton, Cameron set as their KPF for the next 10 years and potentially Buddy added at season ends. They need mature bodies like the Suns have to help bring the kids along.

Dees - have Clark, Hogan and Dawes. Adding Boyd to that foward line and overlooking at Aish? Not sure that would happen when class in their midfield is required.

How happy would the Saints or Dogs be if they bid 3 for McDonald and ended up with him and then watched Boyd slide to 4? Especially if McDonald is not rated by the clubs as a top 4 pick.

Add Jack Fitzpatrick to the list of Dees forwards. He is just coming good now. Has been kicking goals, can 2nd ruck, is 200cm and has mid pace (in a straight line) - and all in a forward line with limited inside 50's and lousy delivery. If he keeps this form up and even improves add him to the growing list of forwards the Bullies, Freo and Blues will chase. Another reason for keeping early picks on the table.

 

[doggies ftw]

I think Boyd will be the superstar they are talking about. Right there with Jessie Hogan.

The interesting thing with GWS and the Dees is that with Boyd that would not be filling a great need.

GWS have Patton, Cameron set as their KPF for the next 10 years and potentially Buddy added at season ends. They need mature bodies like the Suns have to help bring the kids along.

Dees - have Clark, Hogan and Dawes. Adding Boyd to that foward line and overlooking at Aish? Not sure that would happen when class in their midfield is required.

How happy would the Saints or Dogs be if they bid 3 for McDonald and ended up with him and then watched Boyd slide to 4? Especially if McDonald is not rated by the clubs as a top 4 pick.

Yeah there is definitely every chance Boyd will be that superstar (and it would be ****ing great to have a real gun KPF developing on the list) but I just don't think its worth doing a trade that GWS would want (which realistically would be something like Pick 4 + Roughead which would just put us further back) if GWS don't trade the pick which I honestly think will happen, like many have said I think they are just trying to shake up the clubs minds a bit, and it looks like its working. Then I cant see them overlooking Boyd even with the options they already have, Patton has had two knee recos so who knows how he comes back and honestly if Boyd is as good as they say and they cant fit him into the team in a couple of years then they just trade him for pretty much whatever they want. I agree they need mature bodies but I can't see them giving up pick one for a couple of mature bodies who aren't necessarily stars and I cant see other teams giving up stars because that would just be stupid.

But like you said if Boyd does manage to go past pick one then surely Melbourne still wouldn't take him, they would be absolutely mad to skip over a midfielder at their pick but it is Melbourne so who ****ing knows what they will do

So which ever way you put it it is a massive risk because missing out on Boyd just because we wanted to wreck Norths plans would be terrible. The way I would play it (obviously I don't have a say in this shit but just what I would do ) would be if we ended up with Pick 3 then keep it, don't bid on McDonald and don't trade it (unless there was some ridiculously good offer or something) because there would still be a chance we end up with Boyd or Aish and even if we don't still have the choice on the next best player, but if we end up with pick 4 and saints have pick 3 (which I think is almost locked in at this stage) then there is absolutely no way Boyd (or even Aish) would get past Saints anyway as that would mean both GWS and Melbourne took someone over both Boyd and Aish, so I would be all down for bidding on McDonald as he would be the one I'd want next in line anyway.

 

[verypoorboy]

I got a question. Highly unlikely but just wondering.

If north for whatever reason traded their 2nd round pick and a club bidded for McDonald AFTER pick 5 or 6 (whichever is the pick after North's 1st round), would North be able to take him with their next availible pick (which is a 3rd round pick rather than a 2nd round)?

Impossible scenario, but can always dream.

 

[Ambrosia]

I got a question. Highly unlikely but just wondering.

If north for whatever reason traded their 2nd round pick and a club bidded for McDonald AFTER pick 5 or 6 (whichever is the pick after North's 1st round), would North be able to take him with their next availible pick (which is a 3rd round pick rather than a 2nd round)?

Impossible scenario, but can always dream.

It can't happen because the father son bidding process is done before trade week.

 

[aussierulesrules]

My thoughts are based on the notion that I think Scharenberg will eventually play as a true CHB and that he could fill that role for StKilda for a decade.

Fair enough. I would think he'd need to grow at least an inch to be suited to playing key position in the AFL though. If anyone knows all about the importance of having some height down back it's us, so I doubt we'd be looking at him as a future CHB option, unless we're extremely confident that he is still growing.

I got a question. Highly unlikely but just wondering.

If north for whatever reason traded their 2nd round pick and a club bidded for McDonald AFTER pick 5 or 6 (whichever is the pick after North's 1st round), would North be able to take him with their next availible pick (which is a 3rd round pick rather than a 2nd round)?

Impossible scenario, but can always dream.

As I said earlier in the thread, the F/S bidding happens prior to the trade period, so at that point everyone has the picks they originally had and no-one has traded any of their picks.

 

[Wild Bill]

Yeah there is definitely every chance Boyd will be that superstar (and it would be ******* great to have a real gun KPF developing on the list) but I just don't think its worth doing a trade that GWS would want (which realistically would be something like Pick 4 + Roughead which would just put us further back) if GWS don't trade the pick which I honestly think will happen, like many have said I think they are just trying to shake up the clubs minds a bit, and it looks like its working. Then I cant see them overlooking Boyd even with the options they already have, Patton has had two knee recos so who knows how he comes back and honestly if Boyd is as good as they say and they cant fit him into the team in a couple of years then they just trade him for pretty much whatever they want. I agree they need mature bodies but I can't see them giving up pick one for a couple of mature bodies who aren't necessarily stars and I cant see other teams giving up stars because that would just be stupid.

But like you said if Boyd does manage to go past pick one then surely Melbourne still wouldn't take him, they would be absolutely mad to skip over a midfielder at their pick but it is Melbourne so who ******* knows what they will do

So which ever way you put it it is a massive risk because missing out on Boyd just because we wanted to wreck Norths plans would be terrible. The way I would play it (obviously I don't have a say in this shit but just what I would do ) would be if we ended up with Pick 3 then keep it, don't bid on McDonald and don't trade it (unless there was some ridiculously good offer or something) because there would still be a chance we end up with Boyd or Aish and even if we don't still have the choice on the next best player, but if we end up with pick 4 and saints have pick 3 (which I think is almost locked in at this stage) then there is absolutely no way Boyd (or even Aish) would get past Saints anyway as that would mean both GWS and Melbourne took someone over both Boyd and Aish, so I would be all down for bidding on McDonald as he would be the one I'd want next in line anyway.

Yeah the end to the season is going to be interesting. No team wants to tank but do the Saints, Dogs and Roo supporters want more wins? I don't - I want Gysberts, Jacobs, Daw, Harper, Currie, Kennedy, Delaney, Garner to all play - we need to see who can take our team forward.

The only way I see the Dogs or Saints bidding is at year end they make a list as to players the clubs want to draft - if McDonald is in the top 4 on either list then the bid will come. If he is not then I have no idea how a recruiter would role the dice and bid.

After the draft meeting with the CEO would be inetresting.

Peter Gordan: "I see you picked Luke McDonald at 3"

Simon Dalrymple: "Yeah - isn't it great we stuffed those pesky Roos up"

Peter Gordan: "But you did not list Luke as a player that is in the top 3 players in this draft or a player that was rated as a top 3 player to fill one of our needs?"

Simon Dalrymple: "Haaaaa haaaa - silly Norf - we showed them hey boss?"

Peter Gordan: "I want you packed up and out by lunch time"

 

[Demonheart]

North fans have been telling everyone that he's the clear number 1, now that their season has turned to the shizen and they'll end up with a very high pick he's suddenly not that good. The same thing happened with Viney last year.

He's a very talented kid, would love him at Melbourne, hope we bid

 

[Theo X]

The Demons released a statement last year prior to F/S selections that they would pick Viney only if he was the player they rated at that pick - they were prepared to pay him out if necessary - its a tough game. I expect North will do the same. If he is not the player rated at that pick the responsible thing to do by the club is to select the player rated. If there is some sort of contract just pay it out. No doubt any contract would have conditions. We will not know who the clubs really rate and at what pick. I suspect if North get a pick 7, 8 or above they may have to use it.
There is no way a club will nominate him unless he is the player rated at their selection.

That was all a smokescreen though, and we admitted after the draft that we would have taken him with our first pick if needed, as North will for Mcdonald if a lower finishing team bids on him.

 

[doggies ftw]

Yeah the end to the season is going to be interesting. No team wants to tank but do the Saints, Dogs and Roo supporters want more wins? I don't - I want Gysberts, Jacobs, Daw, Harper, Currie, Kennedy, Delaney, Garner to all play - we need to see who can take our team forward.

The only way I see the Dogs or Saints bidding is at year end they make a list as to players the clubs want to draft - if McDonald is in the top 4 on either list then the bid will come. If he is not then I have no idea how a recruiter would role the dice and bid.

I can see the point in not wanting more wins but honestly I would much prefer us to get as many wins as possible and get some sort of a winning culture going, I think that is much more beneficial then moving a couple of places up the draft order. If getting a couple more wins which can really lift the confidence of the group and make them happier with where the club is going (not to mention the weekend would be a lot better for us supporters) is the difference between getting, say Kelly, or Scharenberg, then so be it, I'd take that in a heartbeat. But I agree that I would rather see us play the kids rather than a few mature bodies who might sneak us a win but offer nothing in the long term.

And I definitely see where you are coming from and as you say you would look pretty stupid if you ended up with McDonald if you didnt rate him that high, but you need to be looking at list needs too, just because he might not be in the top 4 of the draft doesn't mean he isn't in the top 4 of being most important to us (which IMO would be Boyd>Aish>>>McDonald>Kelly, don't really want Scharenberg or Billings which are probably two of the only few you could say with confidence that they are better options than McDonald, I wouldn't be upset if we got them just would prefer others)

 

[scooter600x]

From the Dogs point of view, it depends on whether we finish with pick 3 or 4.

If we finish with pick 3 we might hold back in case Boyd slips, but if we finish with pick 4 and didn't bid, I would be very disappointed. I'd much rather MacDonald to Aish, Scharenburg, Kelly or Billings.

 

[Wild Bill]

North fans have been telling everyone that he's the clear number 1, now that their season has turned to the shizen and they'll end up with a very high pick he's suddenly not that good. The same thing happened with Viney last year.

He's a very talented kid, would love him at Melbourne, hope we bid

I have not seen any Roo poster claiming he is better than Boyd who is the stand out KPP or Aish or is the stand out mid. Where are all these North fans telling everyone that he is the clear number 1??

The Dees are asking for a compo pick due to their poor drafting and now you want to use pick 2 on McDonald? I would think the AFL would tear your bid up and ask Shifter Sheean to draft for you in 2013.

 

[Wild Bill]

That was all a smokescreen though, and we admitted after the draft that we would have taken him with our first pick if needed, as North will for Mcdonald if a lower finishing team bids on him.

Did Viney know? I remember the article where he states that if the Demon's did not take him he would not return to Melbourne and he would make them regret it.

 

[Theo X]

Did Viney know? I remember the article where he states that if the Demon's did not take him he would not return to Melbourne and he would make them regret it.

I have no idea if he knew. But haven't North already committed to taking Mcdonald in any case?
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-03-15/commercial-department-fan-base-crucial-for-north-mcdonald

 

[Snake_Baker]

Yeah the end to the season is going to be interesting. No team wants to tank but do the Saints, Dogs and Roo supporters want more wins? I don't - I want Gysberts, Jacobs, Daw, Harper, Currie, Kennedy, Delaney, Garner to all play - we need to see who can take our team forward.

The only way I see the Dogs or Saints bidding is at year end they make a list as to players the clubs want to draft - if McDonald is in the top 4 on either list then the bid will come. If he is not then I have no idea how a recruiter would role the dice and bid.

After the draft meeting with the CEO would be inetresting.

Peter Gordan: "I see you picked Luke McDonald at 3"

Simon Dalrymple: "Yeah - isn't it great we stuffed those pesky Roos up"

Peter Gordan: "But you did not list Luke as a player that is in the top 3 players in this draft or a player that was rated as a top 3 player to fill one of our needs?"

Simon Dalrymple: "Haaaaa haaaa - silly Norf - we showed them hey boss?"

Peter Gordan: "I want you packed up and out by lunch time"

I reckon that's pretty much how it would go.

 

[Theo X]

I have not seen any Roo poster claiming he is better than Boyd who is the stand out KPP or Aish or is the stand out mid. Where are all these North fans telling everyone that he is the clear number 1??

The Dees are asking for a compo pick due to their poor drafting and now you want to use pick 2 on McDonald? I would think the AFL would tear your bid up and ask Shifter Sheean to draft for you in 2013.

We're asking for a PP because of our unprecedented shite recent on-field record, not because of poor drafting.

 

[Wild Bill]

We're asking for a PP because of our unprecedented shite recent on-field record, not because of poor drafting.

Your on field record is a direct result of wasted 1st round draft picks and poor drafting.

 

[Snake_Baker]

We're asking for a PP because of our unprecedented shite recent on-field record, not because of poor drafting.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your list that decent drafting and another 40 games can't fix.

 

[Wild Bill]

I have no idea if he knew. But haven't North already committed to taking Mcdonald in any case?
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-03-15/commercial-department-fan-base-crucial-for-north-mcdonald

Well I don't think he did - this would just be ammo to make an interstate team bid early for him. He would not leave to return to Melbourne.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/tra...pay-if-they-dont/story-fna8vsun-1226487884412

We are exactly in the same situation as Melbourne - we have asked for him to train and play in our two's side - we get a good look at him and can decide his worth. If he is not worth a top 5 pick later in the year we don't have to take him.

 

[Theo X]

Well I don't think he did - this would just be ammo to make an interstate team bid early for him. He would not leave to return to Melbourne.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/tra...pay-if-they-dont/story-fna8vsun-1226487884412

We are exactly in the same situation as Melbourne - we have asked for him to train and play in our two's side - we get a good look at him and can decide his worth. If he is not worth a top 5 pick later in the year we don't have to take him.

Maybe, or it could also have been a deterrent to interstate teams making a bid for the sake of forcing Melbourne to use it's first pick when they didn't rate him that high.

 

[Demonheart]

I have not seen any Roo poster claiming he is better than Boyd who is the stand out KPP or Aish or is the stand out mid. Where are all these North fans telling everyone that he is the clear number 1??

The Dees are asking for a compo pick due to their poor drafting and now you want to use pick 2 on McDonald? I would think the AFL would tear your bid up and ask Shifter Sheean to draft for you in 2013.

You're joking right? Go back and have a look at all the threads on him over the last 12 months. Seriously...

Have to laugh at the Norf fans who are suddenly getting very nervous at the prospect of using a high pick on a very talented kid. If other clubs rate him highly then they will bid, that's how the system works, and it works well.

 

[Wild Bill]

Maybe, or it could also have been a deterrent to interstate teams making a bid for the sake of forcing Melbourne to use it's first pick when they didn't rate him that high.

Great - maybe we should get Luke out in the press making statements like this.

Viney in 2012 has a similar draft ranking to McDonald in 2013. We won't have pick 3 but pick 5 will put some recruiters under the pump to bid 1, 2, 3 or 4 on him. Even if we miss on him the silver lining is instead of pick 5 we have pick 4.

The posters that are saying we will definitely take him - can you explain if our recruiting manager rates him at 7 - how does he explain using pick 4 on him to the CEO? "We promised him 14 months ago - and a promise is a promise".

Other teams won't roll the dice so such precious picks unless they honestly view him as best fit for their club. For me there is a massive question mark on that. That is why this is a valid thread.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

what is the consensus on his draft range?