Opinion How important is the senior coach?

[Markfs]

Two weeks sounds unfair. Personally I try to concentrate on Markfs's amazing contribution.

Agree totally...

 

[jathanas]

Dunno.

You could ask that question of all folks involved in the club who have been there for the three Premierships. If you take away Dimma? Cotchin? The bootstudder? Do you have three Premierships?

It’s a question about who has the biggest determinant factor, as important as Dimma is, IMO the three above him are even more important.

The players are the most important factor.

The recruiting manager brings the right ones in. The fitness boss helps them realise their physical potential. The coach turns them into a winning team. Those roles get my vote.

Everyone above this level is at least 2 steps away from the frontline.

Not to underestimate the importance of the execs because without them a club lacks the necessary frameworks and processes, but they don't directly influence games of football.

 

[Scodog10]

The players are the most important factor.

The recruiting manager brings the right ones in. The fitness boss helps them realise their physical potential. The coach turns them into a winning team. Those roles get my vote.

Everyone above this level is at least 2 steps away from the frontline.

Not to underestimate the importance of the execs because without them a club lacks the necessary frameworks and processes, but they don't directly influence games of football.

Beyond this how is it determined who the right ones are in regards to players? I’d argue that the senior coach maps out how he wants to play and the decisions on who the right ones are flow from there. Fitness, to me at least, is a law of diminishing returns department because of how much of it can boil down to luck. Not to mention that it’s also dictated to by the senior coach because if they want a skilful group who can hit targets under pressure, but may be lacking aerobically then the fitness department’s focus is different to a coach that wants athletes that cover the ground well.

For instance 90% of fitness/ sports science departments are pretty much the same in terms of outcomes and you only notice the outliers. The outliers results are probably down to good or bad luck anyway. It’s only the truly horrible sports science groups that standout, Davoren, and it’s primarily because of their lack of process.

In each case it reverts back to the senior coach and his ability to eek the best outcome out of a group.

 

[ipswichpies]

They don’t win them without Balme.

Balme doesn’t find his way to Richmond without O’Neil and Gale.

That was the biggest mistake of bringing back Allen the loss of Neil Balme everything seemed to spiral out of control then, recruitments,payments the lot.

 

[jackcass]

Two weeks sounds fair. Personally I try to avoid altering other people’s posts and concentrate on my own amazing contribution.

Nice that you've set goals. Is there a time frame on delivery?

 

[jmac70]

Nice that you've set goals. Is there a time frame on delivery?

I’m taking it one week at a time.

 

[76woodenspooners]

That was the biggest mistake of bringing back Allen the loss of Neil Balme everything seemed to spiral out of control then, recruitments,payments the lot.

My memory is that Allen was in charge of the men’s program for barely a day?

He had been setting up our women’s program, then immediately when he wasn’t moved across to AFL the Whitfield scandal broke, as if a journo had been sitting on it?

I always suspected Allen was being used as a convenient scapegoat?

 

[jmac70]

My memory is that Allen was in charge of the men’s program for barely a day?

He had been setting up our women’s program, then immediately when he wasn’t moved across to AFL the Whitfield scandal broke, as if a journo had been sitting on it?

I always suspected Allen was being used as a convenient scapegoat?

It’s all covered in my ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’ thread.

 

[jathanas]

Beyond this how is it determined who the right ones are in regards to players? I’d argue that the senior coach maps out how he wants to play and the decisions on who the right ones are flow from there. Fitness, to me at least, is a law of diminishing returns department because of how much of it can boil down to luck. Not to mention that it’s also dictated to by the senior coach because if they want a skilful group who can hit targets under pressure, but may be lacking aerobically then the fitness department’s focus is different to a coach that wants athletes that cover the ground well.

For instance 90% of fitness/ sports science departments are pretty much the same in terms of outcomes and you only notice the outliers. The outliers results are probably down to good or bad luck anyway. It’s only the truly horrible sports science groups that standout, Davoren, and it’s primarily because of their lack of process.

In each case it reverts back to the senior coach and his ability to eek the best outcome out of a group.

Fair points Sco. The coach is numero uno, having said that:

A strength and conditioning program can be an edge. As much as we have established the basics being able to optimise an athlete's output and recovery is and will remain a point of difference. Yes, I agree we need to avoid the sh*t ones e.g. Davoren but the field itself is still evolving. The way they improve a player's power output today is nothing like the way they did just 15 years ago.

With recruiting, the coach will specify his requirements but we still need someone that is able to identify the raw talent that can grow to fill them, and usually with mid to late picks in the draft.

 

[76woodenspooners]

It’s all covered in my ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’ thread.

The conspiracy theory that Ed/Pert had directed Allen to negotiate on behalf of the club behind the backs of people who had that job?

There is no evidence of it, and I don’t believe it.

 

[76woodenspooners]

It’s all covered in my ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’ thread.

ps. I’ll concede that my opinion is probably clouded by a chance encounter I had with Gubby that year at a club function. I came away with the impression that he was spending around 90% of his energies on netball, 10% on AFLW and 0% on AFL.

 

[Markfs]

ps. I’ll concede that my opinion is probably clouded by a chance encounter I had with Gubby that year at a club function. I came away with the impression that he was spending around 90% of his energies on netball, 10% on AFLW and 0% on AFL.

makes sense that eddie headhunted him for netball...

 

[jmac70]

makes sense that eddie headhunted him for netball...

He was always the wolf in sheep’s clothing…

 

[Markfs]

He was always the wolf in sheep’s clothing…

100 years from now netball will be the main focus of sporting life...

 

[jmac70]

100 years from now netball will be the main focus of sporting life...

I’ve got two daughters so it is my main focus.

 

[76woodenspooners]

100 years from now netball will be the main focus of sporting life...

Isn’t it already the highest participant sport in the country?

 

[Markfs]

I’ve got two daughters so it is my main focus.

i'm hoping that by then, we'll be able to purchase AFL premierships from NAB

 

[Markfs]

Isn’t it already the highest participant sport in the country?

1. gambling
2. getting drunk
3. netball

 

[cityslick1]

Agree ...

... which is why I ticked the top three boxes. Those ones are responsible for the recruitment of all the others, and to hold those others to account.

This. I wanted to tick 5 boxes, but it all comes down to who is recruiting the individuals to fill the spots. The head coach, list manager, recruiting manager and fitness person are all v important, and one poor card amongst them could see the whole house fall down. But its all on the Footy boss (with CEO approval / input) to find, select, entice and retain those positions.

Ie good recruiting can be undone by shizen list management decisions (hello)... list managers (or coaches) cant deal with poor recruitment (or list management) decisions (hello), and a substandard fitness person can also set the players and team back, so they cant fulfill all stages of keeping a list fit and healthy, to put itself in a position to win a flag.

But the footy boss and CEO choose the people to fill these roles

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

1. CEO - Responsible for running the day to day operations of the club.
2. Footy boss - Responsible for overseeing the football department and ensuring the right people are appointed to the right positions.
3. Head coach - Responsible for getting results on the field and plays a key role in developing players with his coaching staff that he oversees.

 

[sr36]

At the end of 2019 Collingwood’s VFLW team had only lost 6 games of footy in 2 seasons, finished top of the table in both of those seasons, and won a Premiership.

And then we let our senior coach Penny Cula Reid go ...

WTF would a club let a coach with that record go?

... anyway assistant Chloe McMillan got promoted to the senior job and Collingwood’s VFLW team hasn’t lost a game since, with the 2021 regular season now over. Albeit with the 2020 season being scratched.

There are examples in AFL men’s - Chris Scott won a Premiership in his first year in charge of Geelong after taking over the reins from the successful Mark Thompson. John Longmore inherited a strong footy program from Paul Roos at Sydney, and Longmire, just like Roos, was able to take that program to a Premiership.

There are examples of the corollary too: In the last 20 years Carlton’s five wooden spoons were won by four separate coaches (well, five if you count 2015 as a shared achievement by Malthouse and Barker)

The senior coach is the poor sod who has the spotlight on them, is put under the microscope, who carries the can, and who’s job it is to spout clichés at the cameras ...

... but how important for success are they really?

Poll above

I listened to a podcast about a year ago. Some guy had studied a host of successful clubs in a range of different team sports to try to find out the key factors for success. I don't know how he came to his particular conclusion, but he concluded that the captain was the most significant factor in success.

 

[Looney]

I listened to a podcast about a year ago. Some guy had studied a host of successful clubs in a range of different team sports to try to find out the key factors for success. I don't know how he came to his particular conclusion, but he concluded that the captain was the most significant factor in success.

So you're telling me that Cotchin was the major factor in Richmond's success?

 

[Looney]

You can't train a nag to win the melb cup...

Phar Lap was a reject. He was picked up from the bargain basement.

 

[Markfs]

Phar Lap was a reject. He was picked up from the bargain basement.

" Sydney trainer Harry Telford persuaded American businessman David J. Davis to buy the colt at auction, based on his pedigree. Telford's brother Hugh, who lived in New Zealand, was asked to bid up to 190 guineas at the 1928 Trentham Yearling Sales. When the horse was obtained for a mere 160 guineas, he thought it was a great bargain until the colt arrived in Australia. The horse was gangly, his face was covered with warts, and he had an awkward gait. Davis was furious when he saw the colt as well, and refused to pay to train the horse. Telford had not been particularly successful as a trainer, and Davis was one of his few remaining owners. To placate Davis, he agreed to train the horse for nothing, in exchange for a two-thirds share of any winnings."

The real story probably reinforces the importance of good recruiters....

 

[NMBB]

1. CEO - Responsible for running the day to day operations of the club.
2. Footy boss - Responsible for overseeing the football department and ensuring the right people are appointed to the right positions.
3. Head coach - Responsible for getting results on the field and plays a key role in developing players with his coaching staff that he oversees.

President - governance only - do not interfere in people's jobs!