Strategy How tall can we go?

[Houston]

Over the coming couple of months our tall forward stocks are going to grow significantly with Tex, Lynchy and even Otto coming back from injury.
My question to you all is how tall can we go? Obviously a fit Tex is automatic first 22, but after Tex how many talls can we have.
Personally I think we can have Tex, JJ/McKernan (looks like JJ at this stage) and Lynchy. At a stretch we could probably even fit Pods in there against certain sides.

 

[Vader]

Over the coming couple of months our tall forward stocks are going to grow significantly with Tex, Lynchy and even Otto coming back from injury.
My question to you all is how tall can we go? Obviously a fit Tex is automatic first 22, but after Tex how many talls can we have.
Personally I think we can have Tex, JJ/McKernan (looks like JJ at this stage) and Lynchy. At a stretch we could probably even fit Pods in there against certain sides.

We can definitely do with one more tall in the forward line. I'm not convinced that there's room for all of Tex, JPod, JJ & Lynch though - one of them will have to miss.

As for Otten, I suspect that either Hartigan or Rutten may make way for him - probably Hartigan early, then Rutten later in the season if he continues to struggle the way he has so far.

 

[Paladin]

We can definitely do with one more tall in the forward line. I'm not convinced that there's room for all of Tex, JPod, JJ & Lynch though - one of them will have to miss.

As for Otten, I suspect that either Hartigan or Rutten may make way for him - probably Hartigan early, then Rutten later in the season if he continues to struggle the way he has so far.

Reilly will/should make way for Otten.

Hartigan should play every game.

 

[I Lost My Keays]

Mckernan can fu*k off

 

[Houston]

With our current abundance of small defending options I'd prefer to see Otten go on the interchange and have Radar go back to the reserves. Even against St Kilda Radar didn't seem to have much of a role. Otten however is a perfect swingman.

 

[Houston]

Mckernan can fu*k off

To be fair he gave us a good game in round 1 after a solid pre season and then had an undetected concussion in the first half of round 2. He will deservedly get another chance this season.

 

[Vader]

Reilly will/should make way for Otten.

Hartigan should play every game.

I doubt it. They play very different roles. There's no room for Talia, Rutten, Hartigan & Otten all in the same team, just as there's not room for Tex, JPod, JJ & Lynch all in the same team at the other end of the ground.

I agree that we need to get as many games into Hartigan as possible, as quickly as possible, given the imminent retirement of Rutten (it's very hard to see him playing on in 2015). However, the selectors pretty much always go with the best available team - and right now that means Otten will almost certainly replace Hartigan, with Hartigan probably replacing Rutten later in the season.

 

[Paladin]

I doubt it. They play very different roles. There's no room for Talia, Rutten, Hartigan & Otten all in the same team, just as there's not room for Tex, JPod, JJ & Lynch all in the same team at the other end of the ground.

I agree that we need to get as many games into Hartigan as possible, as quickly as possible, given the imminent retirement of Rutten (it's very hard to see him playing on in 2015). However, the selectors pretty much always go with the best available team - and right now that means Otten will almost certainly replace Hartigan, with Hartigan probably replacing Rutten later in the season.

Reilly is playing third tall in defence/loose man/ panic merchant. Otten can play it far better. If the defence is too big for the opposition Rutten is rested Hartigan plays and needs to play agree with you on that.

Otten can play tall or small - was playing as a mid when injured in the preseason and he can definitely play Reillys role to a far higher standard.

 

[Vader]

Reilly is playing third tall in defence/loose man/ panic merchant. Otten can play it far better. If the defence is too big for the opposition Rutten is rested Hartigan plays and needs to play agree with you on that.

Otten can play tall or small - was playing as a mid when injured in the preseason and he can definitely play Reillys role to a far higher standard.

Reilly is not playing 3rd tall in defence, he's not even playing the loose man - Smith had that role against the Saints. Not sure how you can argue he's playing 3rd tall, given that we have Talia, Rutten & Hartigan as #1, #2 and #3. I'll ignore the slur.

Given that you clearly have no idea what Reilly's role in the team actually is, maybe you should refrain from making inherently flawed arguments about why he's likely to be dropped to make way for Otten, when the team's structure clearly dictates that this will not happen.

 

[Paladin]

Reilly is not playing 3rd tall in defence, he's not even playing the loose man - Smith had that role against the Saints. Not sure how you can argue he's playing 3rd tall, given that we have Talia, Rutten & Hartigan as #1, #2 and #3. I'll ignore the slur.

Given that you clearly have no idea what Reilly's role in the team actually is, maybe you should refrain from making inherently flawed arguments about why he's likely to be dropped to make way for Otten, when the team's structure clearly dictates that this will not happen.

My argument was whatever his role is he is failing at it and Otten can do a far better job! Clear

 

[Paladin]

If we can play Rutten, Talia, Hartigan and Reilly there is absolutely no reason we can't play Rutten, Hartigan, Talia and Otten.

Otten is faster more agile a better defender and more creative than Radar.

If we are too big Truck is rested and Laird moves back. No room for Reilly.

 

[Vader]

My argument was whatever his role is he is failing at it and Otten can do a far better job! Clear

How can you possibly argue that he's failing in his role, when you clearly have no idea whatsoever what his role actually is?

Reilly had 18 disposals on Sunday. He had an 83% disposal efficiency rating, which was better than 15 of his teammates. Yes, he made a couple of fairly blatant errors. Yes, he's looking a bit slow right now as he regains match fitness having missed the better part of a year's footy. However, he's not performing anywhere near as badly as you and his other detractors would like to make out.

If the selectors were to follow your advice, our back line would contain Talia, Rutten, Hartigan & Otten - that's a ridiculously tall & slow defence. There is not a snowball's chance in hell that the selectors will go down that path, unless we come up against a team with 3 tall forwards and a medium forward. It's just makes no sense at all from a structural perspective.

That's not to say that Reilly will (or should) hold his position if/when we have our best 22 available (or most of them, given that VB & Hendo are long term injuries). It's just that Otten won't be the one who dislodges Reilly from the team.

 

[Vader]

If we can play Rutten, Talia, Hartigan and Reilly there is absolutely no reason we can't play Rutten, Hartigan, Talia and Otten.

Otten is faster more agile a better defender and more creative than Radar.

If we are too big Truck is rested and Laird moves back. No room for Reilly.

You're massively overstating Otten's characteristics. He's no faster than Radar and I doubt he's more agile either. Radar is a better reader of the play and infinitely better as the "spare man", intercepting the opposition's forward entries. Otten is good at holding the tall & medium forwards, running off the slower big men. They're two completely different players, who play completely different roles and are suited to completely different opponents.

Once again... Reilly may not (should not) hold his position when we get our "best 22" players back from injury, but Otten won't be the one to displace him from the team. Doing so would leave our structure dangerously flawed, being too tall and too slow.

Truck being "rested" is far more likely - and entirely in accordance with what I proposed before. Welcome to 20 minutes ago.

 

[Paladin]

How can you possibly argue that he's failing in his role, when you clearly have no idea whatsoever what his role actually is?

Reilly had 18 disposals on Sunday. He had an 83% disposal efficiency rating, which was better than 15 of his teammates. Yes, he made a couple of fairly blatant errors. Yes, he's looking a bit slow right now as he regains match fitness having missed the better part of a year's footy. However, he's not performing anywhere near as badly as you and his other detractors would like to make out.

If the selectors were to follow your advice, our back line would contain Talia, Rutten, Hartigan & Otten - that's a ridiculously tall & slow defence. There is not a snowball's chance in hell that the selectors will go down that path, unless we come up against a team with 3 tall forwards and a medium forward. It's just makes no sense at all from a structural perspective.

That's not to say that Reilly will (or should) hold his position if/when we have our best 22 available (or most of them, given that VB & Hendo are long term injuries). It's just that Otten won't be the one who dislodges Reilly from the team.

Are you saying Reilly is faster than Otten? Did you watch the game he was inept. Yes agree Hendo would be the perfect option to replace him but Otten will fit in somewhere and Reillys back pocket is fine with me.

 

[Paladin]

Reilly would be close to the slowest player on our list. Has never stood a small forward and Otten kills him as spare man/ intercept mark. Flawed argument.

 

[Vader]

Are you saying Reilly is faster than Otten? Did you watch the game he was inept. Yes agree Hendo would be the perfect option to replace him but Otten will fit in somewhere and Reillys back pocket is fine with me.

Inept players don't get the ball 18 times and achieve an 83% disposal efficiency. Reilly is rightly being criticised for making a couple of bad judgement errors. He's not receiving any credit at all for all the good things he did. That's where BF falls down - people focus on what they want to see and ignore anything that doesn't conform to their blinkered view of the world. A balanced view looks at both the good & bad things, it doesn't focus entirely on one side of the equation.

 

[Vader]

Paladin, arguing with you on the topic of Reilly is completely pointless. Your view of him is so blinkered, biased and unbalanced that it is completely impossible for you to have any concept of Reilly's value to the team. You have a selective blindness, which impairs your ability to see the good things that he does, filtering out all but the few glaring errors he makes from time to time.

Given that your hatred for the man blinds you so badly, your judgement is so impaired that your opinion is completely invalidated and becomes utterly irrelevant. You've clearly demonstrated in this thread that you have no idea what roles Otten & Reilly play, so what point is there in me continuing to argue with someone so utterly clueless?

How about you watch him closely, without the blinkers for a change. Then come back and voice an opinion.

 

[crowded house]

It wouldn't be a problem if any/all of these players were 'elite' as we could get away with playing them all however all of them have similar characteristics and similar flaws. Playing them all opens the door for all of these flaws to be exploited (especially in the back line where we can be really slow).

In the back line, I think Otten and Reilly in the same team is too slow and we can't play both. The reality is that we will and Hartigan will make way. The interesting thing will be who (if anyone) then makes way for Hendo. None of these players will deserve to be dropped, none really have done anything to be walk up starts either, so as long as they don't all play (and knock out our faster, more skilled players) I'm not really fussed because they all play the same role about as well as each other.

Our forward line is a bit of a different beast because they all play slightly different roles and are different sizes.
Walker in is obvious, as well as one of Jenkins or Smack.
Pods can fit into this forward line because although he is a 'tall' he still goes when the ball hits the ground and provides okay ground level skill and good pressure.
Lynch can also fit because he plays as a high half forward and isn't really a tall either.

TLDR: Backline one or two can play, who it is doesn't matter because they're all about the same player anyway. Forward line they all can fit because they play different roles.

 

[crowded house]

Inept players don't get the ball 18 times and achieve an 83% disposal efficiency. Reilly is rightly being criticised for making a couple of bad judgement errors. He's not receiving any credit at all for all the good things he did. That's where BF falls down - people focus on what they want to see and ignore anything that doesn't conform to their blinkered view of the world. A balanced view looks at both the good & bad things, it doesn't focus entirely on one side of the equation.

I'm not doubting that Reilly can have good games and do good things and is best 22. My problem is every time he is one or one, kicking across the face of goal or even running in open space I feel really uncomfortable because of his history of costly errors and this probably clouds my view of his game.

It also needs to be said that at the moment he, Jaensch and Smith are the ones trusted to take the game on and make attacking and dangerous kicks. They WILL look bad when they don't come off, but that is their role in the team. Hendo will probably be in the same position if/when he comes back in.

 

[Paladin]

Paladin, arguing with you on the topic of Reilly is completely pointless. Your view of him is so blinkered, biased and unbalanced that it is completely impossible for you to have any concept of Reilly's value to the team. You have a selective blindness, which impairs your ability to see the good things that he does, filtering out all but the few glaring errors he makes from time to time.

Given that your hatred for the man blinds you so badly, your judgement is so impaired that your opinion is completely invalidated and becomes utterly irrelevant. You've clearly demonstrated in this thread that you have no idea what roles Otten & Reilly play, so what point is there in me continuing to argue with someone so utterly clueless?

How about you watch him closely, without the blinkers for a change. Then come back and voice an opinion.

Lulz pot, kettle etc. I seem to remember some hate filled rants about Pets, Jaensch, Martin among others.

I'm flat out at work so can't continue atm reguardless

 

[Vader]

I'm not doubting that Reilly can have good games and do good things and is best 22. My problem is every time he is one or one, kicking across the face of goal or even running in open space I feel really uncomfortable because of his history of costly errors and this probably clouds my view of his game.

It also needs to be said that at the moment he, Jaensch and Smith are the ones trusted to take the game on and make attacking and dangerous kicks. They WILL look bad when they don't come off, but that is their role in the team. Hendo will probably be in the same position if/when he comes back in.

That's the point.. players like these get castigated for making an error when trying to take the game on & do something creative.

There's no doubt that Reilly has lost a yard of pace - and he wasn't exactly lightning quick to begin with. I think the end for him is getting closer and wouldn't be overly surprised (or disappointed) if Grigg replaces him when he gets over his adductor strain - Grigg to HFF, Laird to HBF, Reilly to SANFL. It won't be Otten who replaces him though, as they are completely different players, playing completely different roles (something which Paladin seems unable to grasp).

 

[Paladin]

That's the point.. players like these get castigated for making an error when trying to take the game on & do something creative.

There's no doubt that Reilly has lost a yard of pace - and he wasn't exactly lightning quick to begin with. I think the end for him is getting closer and wouldn't be overly surprised (or disappointed) if Grigg replaces him when he gets over his adductor strain - Grigg to HFF, Laird to HBF, Reilly to SANFL. It won't be Otten who replaces him though, as they are completely different players, playing completely different roles (something which Paladin seems unable to grasp).

Wrong Otten can play the exact loose man third tall role Reilly likes to play and has done it numerous times. To a higher standard.

 

[Vader]

Lulz pot, kettle etc. I seem to remember some hate filled rants about Pets, Jaensch, Martin etc.

I'm flat out at work so can't continue atm reguardless

Difference is that I've always tried to take a balanced view.

I've always recognised Pets' work rate/ethic and his value as a defensive forward. I've been critical of his inability to win enough of his own ball - and his panic attacks when confronted by the big sticks. That's balance.

I've always acknowledged Jaensch' kicking ability. I've criticised him for not using his alleged pace & his lack of defensive skills, both of which have shown dramatic improvement this year. Once again, balance. Maybe I failed to take into account the impact that injury has had on his career over the last couple of seasons.

Martin really doesn't have any particular strengths to his game. He had genuine pace, but injuries have robbed him of that. Other than that, he never really had any particularly great weapons, which is why he was never going to make it in the long term. Neither does he have any glaring deficiencies, though he did show a disturbing lack of composure on Sunday - against an opponent who was providing zero pressure. He is and always has been a vanilla player, who was never going to be good enough to make it at the senior level. That's about as balanced as I can be in viewing his career.

I may not always succeed, but I do try and take a balanced view when looking at all of our players. Sometimes that means I'm faster to see their flaws, when others are still blinded by the shine on the new toy, fixating on the positives. All players have a mix of good & bad - none are without flaw. Having a balanced view means recognising and acknowledging those flaws & making a judgement call as to how the good & bad balance affects a player's ability to contribute to the team's performance.

 

[Vader]

Wrong Otten can play the exact loose man third tall role Reilly likes to play and has done it numerous times. To a higher standard.

Here you go again... Reilly has never played the "third tall" role, so of course Otten is better in that position. But how does Otten get to be the 3rd tall when we have Talia, Rutten & Hartigan in the team? As for playing the "loose man" better, don't make me laugh. Reilly almost made the AA team in that role - Otten has never been anywhere near that standard.

Both players have their strengths and their weaknesses. Both are completely different and play completely different roles. You're making a complete fool of yourself by trying to argue otherwise.

 

[Paladin]

Here you go again... Reilly has never played the "third tall" role, so of course Otten is better in that position. But how does Otten get to be the 3rd tall when we have Talia, Rutten & Hartigan in the team? As for playing the "loose man" better, don't make me laugh. Reilly almost made the AA team in that role - Otten has never been anywhere near that standard.

Both players have their strengths and their weaknesses. Both are completely different and play completely different roles. You're making a complete fool of yourself by trying to argue otherwise.

Near AA what is that some sort of participation award

Reilly has had one good year in a decade enough is enough thanks for trying.