Analysis How the revamped Tigers could look in 2023 with the potential additions of Tim Taranto and Jacob Hopper

[Noidnadroj]

Both Taranto and Hopper are defensive as *, more than make up for Graham and his 12 possessions and 8 tackles.

Gimme the GWS boys combines 60 posessions and 12 tackles anyday

I’m confident Jack Graham will follow a similar path as Karl Amon. A bit of a vanilla 18 average possession player for 5-6 seasons, then at 25yo something clicks and he turns into a 24 possession player.

Graham has played 97 games and is not yet 25yo …. he is about to hit his prime years as a footballer and is not the sort of player/leader we want to lose now. We’ve been through his average to good career years thus far - we don’t want another team getting his good to very good seasons I believe will come now.

With much better clearance players Graham should get more outside ball and be able to use his tank to much better effect. Unless we get a great trade offer (pick 15-20) I’m holding Graham for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Both boys are away on holidays

Can we ask them to go to the rippers and accidentally drop some crushed anti inflammatory on a table

 

[tropicaltiger]

I’m confident Jack Graham will follow a similar path as Karl Amon. A bit of a vanilla 18 average possession player for 5-6 seasons, then at 25yo something clicks and he turns into a 24 possession player.

Graham has played 97 games and is not yet 25yo …. he is about to hit his prime years as a footballer and is not the sort of player/leader we want to lose now. We’ve been through his average to good career years thus far - we don’t want another team getting his good to very good seasons I believe will come now.

With much better clearance players Graham should get more outside ball and be able to use his tank to much better effect. Unless we get a great trade offer (pick 15-20) I’m holding Graham for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

jack graham is slow, the pressure he brings is medium now, in that he dosen't mow them down on the outside (MRJ is our pinup boy) just harrasses them really and if anyone has seen jack outmark anyone one on one, id like to hear about it,

also jack gets the fumbles more than most and his left leg is there for balance only.

very serviceable, depth is the best i can come up with.... as a winger he aint and half back NO. those saying he could have put the stoppers on neale are kidding themselves. neale goes bang bang bang and hes gone or he's drawn 3 oppos towards him and hit a team mate on the tit spare and on the outside. too nimble for jack as he was for cotch and short too.

my prediction is ross has passed graham and cotchins 22/23 form is superior too and with hopper and taranto as prime mids cotchin/sonsie/ross will do quite adequately the lambert and jack graham roles of the past, as first options with graham to be handy depth. jack may only be 25ish but his rig is now that of a 30yo.

 

[tigerfan1961]

He pretty much nailed the side. Only change would be Pickett in for McIntosh. Short was born for a wing role been saying it for 5 years now. Graham has currency and will become Josh Caddy getting paid $500k in Magoo's then value drops. He had suitors previously I'd trade him now. Ross, Sonsie have leapfrogged him and got plenty of kids to come in.

McIntosh and Pickett are perfect wingers for the way and system we play. Short will need to find another position imo

 

[tigerfan1961]

Both Taranto and Hopper are defensive as *, more than make up for Graham and his 12 possessions and 8 tackles.

Gimme the GWS boys combines 60 posessions and 12 tackles anyday

Or maybe it frees Graham up to play another role?

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Or maybe it frees Graham up to play another role?

Waterboy

He's out the starting 22 next year, he is a player that goes missing all too often young Jack Graham.

 

[RockJobster0312]

jack graham is slow, the pressure he brings is medium now, in that he dosen't mow them down on the outside (MRJ is our pinup boy) just harrasses them really and if anyone has seen jack outmark anyone one on one, id like to hear about it,

also jack gets the fumbles more than most and his left leg is there for balance only.

very serviceable, depth is the best i can come up with.... as a winger he aint and half back NO. those saying he could have put the stoppers on neale are kidding themselves. neale goes bang bang bang and hes gone or he's drawn 3 oppos towards him and hit a team mate on the tit spare and on the outside. too nimble for jack as he was for cotch and short too.

my prediction is ross has passed graham and cotchins 22/23 form is superior too and with hopper and taranto as prime mids cotchin/sonsie/ross with do quite adequately the lambert and jack graham roles of the past, as first options with graham to be handy depth. jack may only be 25ish but his rig is now that of a 30yo.

This to me represent a misunderstanding of what pressure means.

Chase down tackles - which I 100% agree MRJ is now the poster boy for - is like contested marking. Important? Yes. Momentum changing? Yes. But uncontested marks numerically far exceed contested marks (also, why does it matter if Graham has ever outmarked anyone 1v1? It’s not his role now, nor has it ever been).

It’s the same with pressure. Chase town tackles are numerically inferior to pressure inside the contest. And that is where Jack Graham is elite. It’s not catching a guy with a head start. It’s hunting the man with the ball forcing a dump kick or a rushed handball that’s kept inside the contest or turned over. THAT is what Richmond footy has been about since 2017; and Jack Graham is the best at the RFC for it.

You state his pressure is ‘medium now’. He was 12th in the AFL for pressure acts despite having turf toe for the majority of the season. Over the last five years, Graham is AFL #1 for pressure acts. How is any of that ‘medium’?

Your inclusion of Neale is apt, because the elimination final exactly proved Graham’s worth. Neale has had huge possession games against us in the past; yet Richmond have won, often comfortably. What was the difference? Neale had more time and space inside the contest to make high level decisions as the pressure inside the contest was down. Again, this is Graham’s one wood.

That’s not to say that Graham is guaranteed best 22 next season, nor that anyone currently on the list can take over this role. But you need players that play a role in your team. As it’s said, an All Star Team will always beat a Team of All Stars. Graham plays that role of inside pressure mid; and statistically one of the best in the AFL.

 

[Dr Tigris]

This to me represent a misunderstanding of what pressure means.

Chase down tackles - which I 100% agree MRJ is now the poster boy for - is like contested marking. Important? Yes. Momentum changing? Yes. But uncontested marks numerically far exceed contested marks (also, why does it matter if Graham has ever outmarked anyone 1v1? It’s not his role now, nor has it ever been).

It’s the same with pressure. Chase town tackles are numerically inferior to pressure inside the contest. And that is where Jack Graham is elite. It’s not catching a guy with a head start. It’s hunting the man with the ball forcing a dump kick or a rushed handball that’s kept inside the contest or turned over. THAT is what Richmond footy has been about since 2017; and Jack Graham is the best at the RFC for it.

You state his pressure is ‘medium now’. He was 12th in the AFL for pressure acts despite having turf toe for the majority of the season. Over the last five years, Graham is AFL #1 for pressure acts. How is any of that ‘medium’?

Your inclusion of Neale is apt, because the elimination final exactly proved Graham’s worth. Neale has had huge possession games against us in the past; yet Richmond have won, often comfortably. What was the difference? Neale had more time and space inside the contest to make high level decisions as the pressure inside the contest was down. Again, this is Graham’s one wood.

That’s not to say that Graham is guaranteed best 22 next season, nor that anyone currently on the list can take over this role. But you need players that play a role in your team. As it’s said, an All Star Team will always beat a Team of All Stars. Graham plays that role of inside pressure mid; and statistically one of the best in the AFL.

Excellent analysis of Graham's importance.

To me when he doesn't play you see our structures around the contest apply a lot less pressure and the oppo mids get loose. When he's in the oppo's ball is not as clean and often we get that small knock on / tap to break loose ourselves.

Also Graham is simply amazing at repeat efforts and so is almost like an extra player at times that allows us that even number or outnumber in contests. Because he is always there our structures are (almost) always better. And his speed when running is fast, so he gets back faster and forward faster than his opponent.

Summary, Graham makes our structure better in continuous play. His great skill is driving us to have the advantage in effort after effort, rather than winning a particular hard ball or link up play. There aren't stats for that, but when teams start to wear out and we rip them, apart it's mainly due to us outplaying them in continuous play rather than winning a specific contest.

Just because there aren't stats and it isn't spectacular doesn't mean it isn't important.

 

[4tune8]

There's been a lot of jibber, jabber on here about whether player X or player Y is not in our best 22 when the reality is that we need at least a best 26 to remain competitive at the highest level, factoring in 4 injuries to our theoretical best 22. The players that we should be debating about are the players from 26-32 who could and most likely will get games and how productive those players can be in keeping us competitive.

The additions of Taranto and Hopper not only improve our day to day onfield performance, they also add immense value by pushing those players who were 21 & 22 on the team list to the very important position of coverage, the further consequence is pushing players 25-26 to that 2nd tier of coverage.

I currently see Graham-Gibcus-Sonsie-Soldo not as emergencies but as the 1st tier of cover given the inevitable injuries. The 2nd tier of cover is where I see the emergency coming from, depending again on the amount of injuries, so Ross (who could be 1st tier) HRS, Clarke, RCD, Ryan & Stack form that level. The 3rd tier would come from Dow, Banks, Brown, Bauer, Biggy and Castagna, those players being 33-38 on the availability list.

The added bonus by bringing in 2 established players is that it gives us the opportunity of resting some of the older blokes and getting game time and experience into the younger blokes as well as another year of development. Come next year when Cotch, Jack and Tarrant retire along with Dusty moving to a more permanent forward role we'll have players ready made to step up from each tier level and maintain that high level of competitiveness required from players 22-26.

 

[tropicaltiger]

He was 12th in the AFL for pressure acts despite having turf toe for the majority of the season. Over the last five years, Graham is AFL #1 for pressure acts. How is any of that ‘medium’?

Graham plays that role of inside pressure mid; and statistically one of the best in the AFL.

sadly the facts you correctly mention mean little....that is
if you don't have other strings to your bow.

the 11, above jack in the pressure acts are bona fide mids. and all of them, every one of them, is either a gun or much more damaging when not chasing blokes around like our 90kg jack russell nipping at heels.....and most of them are excellent 2 way runners coz they cop a tag themselves. no one runs with jack graham coz he's only gunna slice you up 2 or 3 times a game.

the other 11 in that pressure group are ALSO doing a jack graham type role plus getting a lot more leather and often matching motors with other game breakers while jack is doing his bit but MRJ and cumbers have his hff now, and sonsie, tt and hops will chew up the mid time jack would have. sorry, he's gunna need to get super fit just to get a look in on the bench or good depth. good luck to jack if he's fit he's always gunna be in dimmas thoughts.

 

[juss]

Without the benefit of any other moves/ there's always players who come on after big preseasons, something like this is how I'd like to see us line up in round 1.

B: Vlastuin Tarrant Miller
HB: Rioli Balta Grimes
C: Baker Hopper Pickett
HF: Bolton Lynch Martin
F: Rioli Jr Riewoldt Cumberland
R: Nankervis Taranto Prestia
INT: Broad Short Sonsie Ross
MS: Cotchin

EMG: McIntosh Gibcus Graham Stack

That was pretty hard to do. It's a tough side to crack into when everyone is fit, but we know that's not going to be the case every week, so opportunities will still come for Dow, Gibcus, Ryan, Clarke, Ralphsmith, Soldo, etc.

 

[RockJobster0312]

sadly the facts you correctly mention mean little....that is
if you don't have other strings to your bow.

the 11, above jack in the pressure acts are bona fide mids. and all of them, every one of them, is either a gun or much more damaging when not chasing blokes around than our 90kg jack russell nipping at heels.....and most of them are excellent 2 way runners coz they cop a tag themselves. no one runs with jack graham coz he's only gunna slice you up 2 or 3 times a game.

the other 11 in that pressure group are ALSO doing a jack graham type role plus getting a lot more leather and often matching motors with other game breakers while jack is doing his bit but MRJ and cumbers have his hff now, and sonsie, tt and hops will chew up the mid time jack would have. sorry, he's gunna need to get super fit just to get a look in on the bench or good depth. good luck to jack if he's fit he's always gunna be in dimmas thoughts.

Role players don’t need to have multiple strings to their bow. That is what Graham is and has always been. That’s why he is important. What makes a great team is as much about great role players as great players (and by that I mean not great players playing a role but role players playing their role great).

Oh, and those ahead of Graham include Sam Berry and Ben Keays (and Jai Culley who played like one game); not exactly the top tier mids. And depending on your view of Matt Rowell and Jack Crisp; maybe those as well.

The point is a basic one; Richmond style of play is based on pressure across the ground, but especially the midfield. Those dirty balls and rushed kicks into our D50 make it easier for our defenders to help out and cover. Turnovers in the middle of the ground lead to better inside 50 entries to our forwards. It’s hard to justify not including a role player who best exemplifies your style of play as a team.

You can state the Graham isn’t this or that, or can’t do this or do that; but that isn’t the point. The point is that the one thing Richmond need to do to play the Richmond way; Jack Graham is the best at. If others like Hopper, Taranto, MRJ and Cumberland can do that through the midfield, I won’t argue that it makes Graham’s role obsolete. But statistically they don’t and so on current evidence it isn’t.

Again, Graham’s role is not to be an elite midfielder, draw a tag or get 30 possessions. His role is to put pressure on in the midfield and he does that as good as; if not better than anyone else in the AFL over the last five seasons.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Ideally we keep Graham, he's young enough that when Cotch, Dusty and Prestia bow out he'll still be playing reasonable footy. He might just have to bide his time. Also, not against trading him if it nets us better players. He's good enough that he has currency but I doubt we'd miss him with an extra 2 gun mids rolling through the middle. A lot of his value is in mitigating the damage that bigger, better midfields inflict on us. What happens when we're dominating the centre? Is there really a need?

 

[4tune8]

Who do want to come into the 22 when Prestia/Cotch/Martin or any of the mids TBH are injured/rested?

My 1st choice would be Graham.

 

[Philth]

If Grahams role is to run around and get 12 touches and a handful of tackles then yes he is nailing it.

I am sorry, but I just dont rate him as much as others and I believe with the addition of 2 A grade mids, we will see others pushed into Grahams role who can be more effective as a complete player.

Can you define an A grade mid?

I would describe Dusty, Trac, Oliver, Prestia etc as A grade. I don't think these two are in that league.

 

[Morro]

Can you define an A grade mid?

I would describe Dusty, Trac, Oliver, Prestia etc as A grade. I don't think these two are in that league.

Taranto is at Prestias level, Hoppers 2021 was as good as Olivers level.

Trac, Dusty, Danger, Fyfe, I mean you could argue their best is a league of its own.

Oliver, Prestia, Steele, Cripps, Walsh, all A graders

 

[Dr Tigris]

Taranto is at Prestias level, Hoppers 2022 was as good as Olivers level.

Trac, Dusty, Danger, Fyfe, I mean you could argue their best is a league of its own.

Oliver, Prestia, Steele, Cripps, Walsh, all A graders

Depends how you classify A graders. I see both TT and Hopper as being able to be A graders.

But most importantly they solve our major issues for the next 5 years

 

[Philth]

Depends how you classify A graders. I see both TT and Hopper as being able to be A graders.

But most importantly they solve our major issues for the next 5 years

Yeah, that's how I see it.

I didn't realise Hopper had such a good year.

 

[Morro]

Yeah, that's how I see it.

I didn't realise Hopper had such a good year.

2022 was a write off with injuries but his 2021 was ELITE as an inside mid.

edited year haha

 

[4tune8]

2023 was a write off with injuries but his 2022 was ELITE as an inside mid.

Geez!! I hope 2023 is not the write off that you said it was

 

[Morro]

Geez!! I hope 2023 is not the write off that you said it was

Haha Gosh me to now

 

[Calcium Man]

2022 was a write off with injuries but his 2022 was ELITE as an inside mid.

edited year haha

Might wanna edit the other year too.

 

[Cdog71]

Graham doesn’t kick many but he’s one of the most reliable set shots I reckon

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

Cant believe how easily people are happy toss out quality player
Graham was chased by 3 clubs last time he was out of contract and the RFC were extremely happy to keep him and he was offered very good coin

Yet we are looking at him as steak knives
He will have alot of suitors when he is a free agent and will most likely get a big offer that we cant match next year

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

2022 was a write off with injuries but his 2022 was ELITE as an inside mid.

edited year haha