Hugh Greenwood debacle

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Big Red Machine

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The league really needs transparency on player contracts. It's frankly ridiculous that we don't know enough financial details on this debacle. Is there any other salary capped league for any sport in the entire world that has this must secrecy on financials ?
If there is I don't know of it. American sports has got this right in regards to everyone knows how grossly overpaid their blokes are. There are entire websites dedicated to tracking NFL teams salary cap room ect.

Performance bonus triggers for achieving certain stat milestones are openly talked about on broadcasts

The more the AFL try and hide this stuff leaves me to think how much are they actually hiding?

If I had to pick between this and having posters leave and never come back then hand me the fking canister I want my hit

I forgive him. I honestly believe he intended to stay with the SUNS, when he posted that tweet. I wish Hugh a Merry Christmas


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Fine, I'm willing to allow him a merry Christmas but I know where he can stick his new year.

I appreciate all the painstakingly researched posts and attempts to see the situation through a different lens, You guys make reading through this all slightly easier to take.

Not going to lie, This one is going to hurt for a long time. As I tried to explain to some friends in a group chat that knows little to none about AFL - This is like someone special promising you this wonderful future and then proceeding to yank the rug out from under you (I may or may not be projecting my own unresolved trauma here but eh, fu** it.)

My main issue with Hugh is that he said he'd knock back all offers and then turned around and did that. Man's only as good as his word

Yes, the club screwed the pooch so hard the pooch needed to lock itself in the bathroom with a tube of soothing cream, and yeah I'm still pissed at those incompetent dumb dumbs

But to hell with it, it's done now - so what we lose a year of Greenwood. Mark my words a hidden gem is going to get an opportunity out of this and take the comp by storm (Stupid sexy Flanders?) and we're going to be going "Whowood?" by this time next year.

Delusional? Yeah probably.

But one day we'll wake up and be thankful for the real OGs like Touk ******* Miller that grabs you by the scruff of the neck and says "I know you're struggling right now, but I'm pushing all my chips into the middle with you and we're gonna ride this thing together till the wheels fall off"
 

SandyToes

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My main issue with Hugh is that he said he'd knock back all offers and then turned around and did that. Man's only as good as his word
This
No doubt the Club approached him because they perceived him as solid, honest and trustworthy
That they (and the vast majority of Suns supporters)were wrong is now history
The fact they needed to be in the position to ask in the first place reflects poorly on list management
But if Greenwood had been honest and said-"I can't guarantee I won't consider other offers"-then he wouldn't have been delisted
As simple as that no matter how the sad North inconsequential nuffies may want to spin it
With character like that no doubt he'll be launched straight into their leadership group carrying the mantle of their other great Club leaders of strong character (eg Carey)
 

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The Kings Ransom

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Yeah ive got a good relationship with the local Gold Coast Journo that wrote the article it was legit said that they intended to phase Greenwood out this season. Wether the club is just putting spin on it I don't know but with inside mids like Rowell, Fiorini and Davies are certainly ready for more midfield time to line up next to Ellis, Sharp, Miller, Anderson, weller and Hollands. I think Greenwood was definitely going to struggle to get a spot.
I think in an ideal world he would be bypassed by the younger players, not meet the trigger for the final year and potentially stay on in an off field / mentoring role.

oh well - doesn’t matter any more!
 

FactsNotBS

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Always Hawthorn. Just kidding GC.
Come of it mate, Greenwood was hardly blindsided it was an amicable discussion. The club approached him with the situation, he agreed it was all good then North approached him with an offer that was too good to refuse. Suns didn't want to match the new contract and he's now a shunboner (typo but it's funny so i'm leaving it). Suns are Idiots and Greenwood isn't not a dog.
Amicable discussion? Hey Hugh, youre turning 30 next year, so we want to start developing the younger mids and we are going to delist you, then list you again (probably on lower money). Once again another act that destroys club culture and 5 mins later they are complaining to the AFL that nobody wants to stay in the GC. (Probably the most beautiful place to live in Australia). Cochrane, Evans, Dew and Cameron, have no idea how to build culture at that club. It sticks out like a sore thumb because talent is one thing and keeping that talent feeling like they are part of a team and being bonded to the club is another.

To take a respected and top performing 29 yo and delist him (only to relist him later, likely on lower money) is a slap in the face no matter which way you "amicably" spin it. It also makes all the other players aware of what is likely to happen to them, when they get to 29. I bet when the Suns were pitching their club to Greenwood, just two short years ago, they didnt mention this was likely to happen.

This type of move may work at other clubs who have built culture but the Suns need to map out every single year of their list management strategy, 5+ years out and not deviate. Stick to the plan. Surely 2 years ago, this was not the plan for Greenwood. It comes down to pathetic list management, poor strategy and no idea how to build culture. And it keeps happening. Sad to say, the four names mentioned need to go. No idea.
 

SunnerSS

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Amicable discussion? Hey Hugh, youre turning 30 next year, so we want to start developing the younger mids and we are going to delist you, then list you again (probably on lower money). Once again another act that destroys club culture and 5 mins later they are complaining to the AFL that nobody wants to stay in the GC. (Probably the most beautiful place to live in Australia). Cochrane, Evans, Dew and Cameron, have no idea how to build culture at that club. It sticks out like a sore thumb because talent is one thing and keeping that talent feeling like they are part of a team and being bonded to the club is another.

To take a respected and top performing 29 yo and delist him (only to relist him later, likely on lower money) is a slap in the face no matter which way you "amicably" spin it. It also makes all the other players aware of what is likely to happen to them, when they get to 29. I bet when the Suns were pitching their club to Greenwood, just two short years ago, they didnt mention this was likely to happen.

This type of move may work at other clubs who have built culture but the Suns need to map out every single year of their list management strategy, 5+ years out and not deviate. Stick to the plan. Surely 2 years ago, this was not the plan for Greenwood. It comes down to pathetic list management, poor strategy and no idea how to build culture. And it keeps happening. Sad to say, the four names mentioned need to go. No idea.
How on earth did you reach that conclusion? Where is it reported he wouldve been on less money once relisted? How is his age a factor in delisting him?
 

natedogg_79

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Amicable discussion? Hey Hugh, youre turning 30 next year, so we want to start developing the younger mids and we are going to delist you, then list you again (probably on lower money). Once again another act that destroys club culture and 5 mins later they are complaining to the AFL that nobody wants to stay in the GC. (Probably the most beautiful place to live in Australia). Cochrane, Evans, Dew and Cameron, have no idea how to build culture at that club. It sticks out like a sore thumb because talent is one thing and keeping that talent feeling like they are part of a team and being bonded to the club is another.

To take a respected and top performing 29 yo and delist him (only to relist him later, likely on lower money) is a slap in the face no matter which way you "amicably" spin it. It also makes all the other players aware of what is likely to happen to them, when they get to 29. I bet when the Suns were pitching their club to Greenwood, just two short years ago, they didnt mention this was likely to happen.

This type of move may work at other clubs who have built culture but the Suns need to map out every single year of their list management strategy, 5+ years out and not deviate. Stick to the plan. Surely 2 years ago, this was not the plan for Greenwood. It comes down to pathetic list management, poor strategy and no idea how to build culture. And it keeps happening. Sad to say, the four names mentioned need to go. No idea.
Amicable as in Hey Hugh, we need to delist 2 players and then redraft them to comply with the AFL's requirement of having 3 picks in the draft and as Hugh himself stated in his tweet it would have been on the exact same contract he was on.

Can you honestly not tell the difference in the club's culture pre and post Dew ? Night and day for me.
The Suns assistance package was announced 2 weeks before Greenwood even signed. How is the club meant to predict the list spot issues ?
 

The Kings Ransom

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Amicable discussion? Hey Hugh, youre turning 30 next year, so we want to start developing the younger mids and we are going to delist you, then list you again (probably on lower money). Once again another act that destroys club culture and 5 mins later they are complaining to the AFL that nobody wants to stay in the GC. (Probably the most beautiful place to live in Australia). Cochrane, Evans, Dew and Cameron, have no idea how to build culture at that club. It sticks out like a sore thumb because talent is one thing and keeping that talent feeling like they are part of a team and being bonded to the club is another.

To take a respected and top performing 29 yo and delist him (only to relist him later, likely on lower money) is a slap in the face no matter which way you "amicably" spin it. It also makes all the other players aware of what is likely to happen to them, when they get to 29. I bet when the Suns were pitching their club to Greenwood, just two short years ago, they didnt mention this was likely to happen.

This type of move may work at other clubs who have built culture but the Suns need to map out every single year of their list management strategy, 5+ years out and not deviate. Stick to the plan. Surely 2 years ago, this was not the plan for Greenwood. It comes down to pathetic list management, poor strategy and no idea how to build culture. And it keeps happening. Sad to say, the four names mentioned need to go. No idea.
Why would we be putting him in on less money? You’ve just plain made that up.

Greenwood was given a 3+1 contract so I would dare say we always intended for him to play 3 years and potentially not the 4th..
That seems to be what the club was still sticking to until north swooped in with a large an unexpected offer.

totally agree that we need a 5 year plan.

In the past 5 years we’ve drafted high end talent mainly in the midfield and forward line.

Taken mature aged key position players in supplemental periods

taken fringe mature aged players with leadership qualities to try and develop a positive culture.

taken a few academy kids

tried to sign up players in advance of them reaching the end of their contract.

whilst not everything has worked out as planned; I think we’ve pretty much stuck to the overarching plan as above.
 

ferball

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Mate, you're inventing your own reality. Goodwill doesn't exist just because of good intentions, you generally need to follow through.

I'm going to donate 50% of my salary to some cancer charities next week – so go right ahead and shower the praise on me now for my excellent character and goodwill, I probably won't actually get around to doing it.

Hugh can be a dog for not following through on his end of the bargain, and the Suns can be incredibly stupid for allowing it to happen.
What was the bargain?
 

ferball

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He agreed to be delisted and rebut any offers he may receive.
That's not really much of a bargain is it. Its more of a like it or lump it situation. He said he was a bit shocked at the decision - said in an interview he was thinking why him. The Suns have basically said "Here's a sh*t sandwich, you have to eat it". Its not like he's in a position to refuse or say "No I don't want to do that" cos there is a fair chance they won't trigger his extension if he does that.

And when David Noble, someone from a family that Greenwood's family have been close to since before he was born and who is basically as responsible as anyone for Greenwood playing footy instead of basketball, makes him an offer that is worth more than what he is being offered to be delisted. Noble flew halfway across the country to get him to the Crows, after flying halfway round the world to convince him to play footy. He probably wouldn't have left for anyone else.

Greenwood described Noble as one of the only people who believed in him all along in an interview, and one of the reasons he is actually playing. Whereas the Suns ... did they really want him? They say yeah its just manipulating list management but deep down inside if you were in his position would you believe that?

Anyway I know I won't be changing anyone's mind. Cheers.
 

Choppers

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That's not really much of a bargain is it. Its more of a like it or lump it situation. He said he was a bit shocked at the decision - said in an interview he was thinking why him. The Suns have basically said "Here's a sh*t sandwich, you have to eat it". Its not like he's in a position to refuse or say "No I don't want to do that" cos there is a fair chance they won't trigger his extension if he does that.

And when David Noble, someone from a family that Greenwood's family have been close to since before he was born and who is basically as responsible as anyone for Greenwood playing footy instead of basketball, makes him an offer that is worth more than what he is being offered to be delisted. Noble flew halfway across the country to get him to the Crows, after flying halfway round the world to convince him to play footy. He probably wouldn't have left for anyone else.

Greenwood described Noble as one of the only people who believed in him all along in an interview, and one of the reasons he is actually playing. Whereas the Suns ... did they really want him? They say yeah its just manipulating list management but deep down inside if you were in his position would you believe that?

Anyway I know I won't be changing anyone's mind. Cheers.
You are 100% correct.........you won't be changing anyone's minds, so head on back to your board and bask in all things positive about good ole Hugh.....and enjoy his contribution while you can......Cheers.
 

Meteoric Rise

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I don’t get the fuss over Greenwood, nor Lyons before him. They were fringe players in Crows strongish teams. They are honest footballers at AFL level, but they are a level below what is required to make a real difference in finals. You have plenty of young mids who look to have enough potential upside to make a difference in finals. Give them games and time in the middle, as a team, and let them grow together, and get to understand each other in an AFL context.

It doesn’t matter if you have the 12th or 15th best midfield in 2022 because Greenwood and his contract have gone or stayed. What will really matter is the difference between having the best and say 5th best midfield around 2024 when Miller is 28, Fiorini 27, Weller 28, Bowes 26, Ainsworth 26, Powell 25, Anderson, Flanders, Sharp and Rowell are 23, and Hollands 22. That difference can mean flag or no flag. Greenwood hanging around potentially just gets in the way of these guys developing properly.

The Suns list management team have no doubt made some errors. Recruiting Atkins on a long term deal had me scratching my head at the time, and still does. But losing 29yo plodder Greenwood(for all his good traits) is only an issue if you are trying to bridge the gap between about 16th and 12th on the ladder. It is immaterial to whether the club wins finals in the future and I think that is why they risked losing him in preference to others they could have chosen.
 

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The Kings Ransom

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That's not really much of a bargain is it. Its more of a like it or lump it situation. He said he was a bit shocked at the decision - said in an interview he was thinking why him. The Suns have basically said "Here's a sh*t sandwich, you have to eat it". Its not like he's in a position to refuse or say "No I don't want to do that" cos there is a fair chance they won't trigger his extension if he does that.

And when David Noble, someone from a family that Greenwood's family have been close to since before he was born and who is basically as responsible as anyone for Greenwood playing footy instead of basketball, makes him an offer that is worth more than what he is being offered to be delisted. Noble flew halfway across the country to get him to the Crows, after flying halfway round the world to convince him to play footy. He probably wouldn't have left for anyone else.

Greenwood described Noble as one of the only people who believed in him all along in an interview, and one of the reasons he is actually playing. Whereas the Suns ... did they really want him? They say yeah its just manipulating list management but deep down inside if you were in his position would you believe that?

Anyway I know I won't be changing anyone's mind. Cheers.
Which interview? whilst many Suns fans are also asking the same question “why him” I’d be surprised to hear him say it publically

what is clear is the Suns single most important goalfor 2022 is to win matches. Dew’s career depends on it. Many fans believe it is our most important year in club history. If we come bottom 4, almost certain our young stars leave and the cycle continues. If Hugh is best 22 -and going in to the season he absolutely was, he plays. I don’t believe the club would be so vindictive to play him in the VFL if he declined to participate in their request.

we know why he left. Connection with noble plus about 800k more in guaranteed (or likely) money a pretty significant factor.
 

nutstar

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Too many here are glossing over this absolute clusterf**k of a move by the suns.
Sure Hugh went back on his word, but for the club to have been in this position shows exactly how poorly ran we are.
Sure there may be blessings in disguise from this. But it doesn’t change the fact that we truly screwed the donkey on this one.
 

David C

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Now that Bowes is finally training with the mids it's a bit like Greenwood Who?
If the kid lives up to his potential it will be the best move the club has ever made.
I've said this earlier, you don't need Greenwood anymore. Plenty of talented young options to run through your midfield that would look to leave soon if not given opportunities. Fiorini was pretty good the backend of last season as well. North have probably made a mistake recruiting him as they also have a talented group of young midfielders whose development will now be hindered. Get King re-signed and your laughing. And make Touk a co-captain, he deserves it with that contract re-signing.
 

KingCoasters

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I think our starting midfield will look like this in round one regardless of hugh:
Ellis Anderson Sharpe
Witts Miller Rowell

Sharpe is the only one that may not be there, but was so impressed with him this year and will only get better.
Obviously losing Hugh is the fu** up of the century, but losing a depth midfielder and giving an opportunity to someone like Fiorini and Bowes will make us far better off in the long run.
 

Better Loosen Up

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" “It’s been a whirlwind past 48 hours, however the opportunity to extend my career and set my young family up with North Melbourne was one too good to turn down. "

Went for the money.
Or maybe he went to a club that was giving him pretty much 3 years job security vs his own club that just delisted him.
 

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