I can't watch this #### !!!

[jenny61_99]

Gee Jenny i hope you are right.

The fact that Collingwood allowed us the corridor and didn't apply pressure is a massive determinant of why our gameplan appeared to succeed in that match...do you reckon other clubs will do that again?

Yes Craig has changed the game plan but while in theory, on a bit of paper with no opposition, it is attacking, in reality it is very defensive. He has changed the game plan in the wrong direction.

But the biggest question is the experience/execution one. Will it improve? My fear is that ALL our players cannot cope with this style, not just the smaller bodied inexperienced youngsters.

I hope i am wrong but the science of this gameplan needs to be modified by the art form of playing footy and winning some contests by playing the odds a little and going forwards.


And well done on your sons footy results...has Matt Rendell called yet

I still think it's too early to tell if the gameplan will work even when pressure is applied. A few others have also said it is the execution of that plan rather than fundamental flaws in the plan itself. Having just broken down the age/game stats from the weekend (in another thread), half of our team from the weekend (11/22) have played 50 games or less! This is going to take time and not something you can just panic and say "hey, it's not working - let's try something else". It should be more a case of "let's get better at it".

Oh and thanks - not yet, but I expect they'll look at him when they are up here in two weeks! LOL

 

[Witty Remark]

It always appears that way for players that divide opinion - some people like him, some people don't, and therefore more people talk about whether they like him or not. Of course, this being the internet, people tend to exagerrate what they are saying so it turns into a "Van Berlo is soo overrated, he is shit", "No, he's clearly our second best midfielder" slugfest each week. Similar to the Douglas thing, how I keep seeing people post about how he's always insulted on the forums, even though I see more people post about how he gets insulted than people talking abou how poor his game was.

FWIW, I thought VB's game was about par on Saturday.

I agree mostly cmndstab. His endeavor and courage cannot be questioned, and he does the 1%ers well (which may go unnoticed by some observers). However what I think frustrates some on this board is that he has a tendency to burn the ball. His foot skills, particularly in the past few weeks has been below par. Whether this is a result of increased pressure on him from the opposition i'm not sure.

Obviously when playing youngsters to give them vital experience our form will rise and dip, however i'm not convinced of the game plan we are trying to excecute. When we harrassed Geelong in the third quarter, I was so impressed, however in the last two games I found myself watching and waiting for the enevitable 'one handball too many' or the 'handball to a player that is stationary' or the 'instinctive handball sideways without lifting the eyes to find a better target by foot'. I know we need to give them time to perfect this style of play, however i'm not sure we know how to change to Plan B effectively when Plan A is so obvioulsy not working.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I agree mostly cmndstab. His endeavor and courage cannot be questioned, and he does the 1%ers well (which may go unnoticed by some observers). However what I think frustrates some on this board is that he has a tendency to burn the ball. His foot skills, particularly in the past few weeks has been below par. Whether this is a result of increased pressure on him from the opposition i'm not sure.

Obviously when playing youngsters to give them vital experience our form will rise and dip, however i'm not convinced of the game plan we are trying to excecute. When we harrassed Geelong in the third quarter, I was so impressed, however in the last two games I found myself watching and waiting for the enevitable 'one handball too many' or the 'handball to a player that is stationary' or the 'instinctive handball sideways without lifting the eyes to find a better target by foot'. I know we need to give them time to perfect this style of play, however i'm not sure we know how to change to Plan B effectively when Plan A is so obvioulsy not working.

Fair comments Witty, and the highlighted question is the big one.

I think the answer to some degree is YES due to our game style. My thoughts are that if our players had the confidence of going forward and knowing that our structure actually supported it and players would lead up and/or there would be a decent target to aim for, then the attacking skills would definitely improve.

VB is a curious case in that he perhaps more than most does seek to play on, create forward run and kick up field. For that he should receive the kudos So in his specific case it isn't a desire to go sideways first that screws him up, it is the fact that the forward structures are crap...not enough targets leading, not enough targets actually in the forward line half the time, our tall targets are usually static with about 5 blokes hanging off them, and the rest of our team are so shocked a player has moved the ball forward quickly the crumbers are nowhere to be seen cos they are standing behind and lateral to the ball carrier after playing the zone and then waiting for possession backwards.

Give blokes like VB a mandate to attack, give him a couple tall targets he knows will be in the vicinity of certain forward areas, give him 1-2 leading targets and get a couple crumbers who are expecting to stream back into attack to collect the crumbs and keep the ball in. Yes it's traditional but i don't think we have to abandon zoning to achieve this to a degree, we just have to place a bit more onus on our defenders to lift a notch and our mids to win their own ball a bit which i believe they can.

Do this and the skills will lift. We may only slightly improve over the next year but when the spine including the likes of Bock, Davis, McKernan, Tippett and Walker are ready then we will do very very well because the game plan will suit. If i have to see Walker, McKernan/Davis and Tippett getting cold up forward and losing confidence in leading strongly because of the crappy style we have then we will miss a huge opportunity and i will be one angry supporter! You can see it in Walker already.

 

[johnnypanther]

How often do we see someone gain possession on the FB or HB line, look up and find no one there to pass to? This causes us to go sideways or backwards, sometimes into traffic risking turnovers in opposition goal scoring range.

are you sure this happens? i'm convinced that they dont look up & forward, instead they now instinctively stop, look sideways & backwards

f... even Buddy Franklin would look like a 2nd rate forward in our team

 

[icrow32]

I still think it's too early to tell if the gameplan will work even when pressure is applied. A few others have also said it is the execution of that plan rather than fundamental flaws in the plan itself. Having just broken down the age/game stats from the weekend (in another thread), half of our team from the weekend (11/22) have played 50 games or less! This is going to take time and not something you can just panic and say "hey, it's not working - let's try something else". It should be more a case of "let's get better at it".

Oh and thanks - not yet, but I expect they'll look at him when they are up here in two weeks! LOL

Our game plan is rubbish, I do not want to watch one more game where we kick side ways, backwards, and have or full forward start at the top of the 50 metre arc.

Have you looked at Ports age stats, I would think they are similar, thats a rediculous excuse considering we were also were playing a young team.

The fact is our game plan is based on boring, slow movement of the footy, with absolutely no risks taken at all. This has slowly been the case over the last 2 years. The entertaining football we were promised by NC a few year ago is a distant memory and not we are stuck with a confused playing group and growing unrest amoungst the members.

 

[Wood_Duck]

We are not the only young inexperienced team in the competition. Our style of football has been critisized at every level. Our win loss record does not tell the story of just how bad our football is. We have beaten Collingwood, Melbourne and Fremantle. None of them convincingly.
Given that Richmond and Melbourne have improved on their early season disasters, Fremantle appear to have clicked we may well find ourselves much closer to the bottom of the ladder than the top very shortly.
Our list isnt that bad. If its not the coach and its not the game plan I'd love someone to tell me why we look so awful.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

We are not the only young inexperienced team in the competition. Our style of football has been critisized at every level. Our win loss record does not tell the story of just how bad our football is. We have beaten Collingwood, Melbourne and Fremantle. None of them convincingly.
Given that Richmond and Melbourne have improved on their early season disasters, Fremantle appear to have clicked we may well find ourselves much closer to the bottom of the ladder than the top very shortly.
Our list isnt that bad. If its not the coach and its not the game plan I'd love someone to tell me why we look so awful.

Fair questions WD...

It seems there are 2 camps developing among the supporter base...

1) Those who see the game plan as fundamentally flawed.

2) Those who agree with the coaches game plan and believe time+experience will show it to be the right way to go.

I think both groups recognise that either the current plan or any alternative will require a bit of development with the young blokes but i just feel this isn't enough with the current philosophy.

I ask those of you who are in favour of the current method...why do you think it will be successful in 2-3 years time?

 

[jenny61_99]

Our game plan is rubbish, I do not want to watch one more game where we kick side ways, backwards, and have or full forward start at the top of the 50 metre arc.

Have you looked at Ports age stats, I would think they are similar, thats a rediculous excuse considering we were also were playing a young team.

The fact is our game plan is based on boring, slow movement of the footy, with absolutely no risks taken at all. This has slowly been the case over the last 2 years. The entertaining football we were promised by NC a few year ago is a distant memory and not we are stuck with a confused playing group and growing unrest amoungst the members.

Easy solution... start following Port.

 

[jenny61_99]

I ask those of you who are in favour of the current method...why do you think it will be successful in 2-3 years time?

I believe our skills will improve as our experience does. This game plan requires great skills and we are known as the "well drilled" team. Given time (both game and training) the skills required for this style of play will be finely honed and far better executed. Don't forget, HALF the team that played on Saturday have less than 50 games (with 5 of those having less than 10). You get 40-60 games into these kids and the difference will be marked not only in skill level, but in decision making as well. At the moment I believe both of these areas are probably at an all time low for us.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I believe our skills will improve as our experience does. This game plan requires great skills and we are known as the "well drilled" team. Given time (both game and training) the skills required for this style of play will be finely honed and far better executed. Don't forget, HALF the team that played on Saturday have less than 50 games (with 5 of those having less than 10). You get 40-60 games into these kids and the difference will be marked not only in skill level, but in decision making as well. At the moment I believe both of these areas are probably at an all time low for us.

Hope you are right Jenny but it aint just the kids stuffing up with skill and decision making errors

 

[crowsup]

Fair questions WD...

It seems there are 2 camps developing among the supporter base...

1) Those who see the game plan as fundamentally flawed.

2) Those who agree with the coaches game plan and believe time+experience will show it to be the right way to go.

I think both groups recognise that either the current plan or any alternative will require a bit of development with the young blokes but i just feel this isn't enough with the current philosophy.

I ask those of you who are in favour of the current method...why do you think it will be successful in 2-3 years time?

I'm one of those that don't necessarily believe that the current plan is good. The problem is that I don't know of an other plan that may be better.
I don't make the assumption that I know better than the coach and his assistants. The fact is that, in my opinion, the coaching staff has not been disappointing in the last 4 seasons, so I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt. And a bit more time to modify it enough to suit our players.
By the way, the plan to go back to basic and use the old style positional plan is pretty useless and people that believe we should go back to it, know even less than I.
After all, if that were a good plan, wouldn't most coaches go back to it. Or do all coaches try to apply the new "Zoning" because it is a better plan?

 

[RoosterLad]

Easy solution... start following Port.

What a terrible post. But you have shown before you are a bit clueless and nothing but a 'yes woman'.

Port have a young team but they do play a better brand of footy. Craig is completely clueless with the crap we are dishing up at the moment. He wants us to play some kind of perfect game where we chip chip chip our way to the goal score for an easy goal. It's not going to happen.

Add the fact that there is no run at all, he doesn't back his players and his players don't back each other and we are in strife. But yeah.. someone says an opposition team plays a better brand with plenty of kids as well and instead of acknowledging them as being correct or at least sharing their opinion you tell them to go and support them.

If Adelaide Footy Club had people like you in charge we would be worse than the likes of Freo and Richmond.

 

[Wood_Duck]

And herein lies the answer. People screamed for the last few years about Craig's gameplan. Now, when he changes it, they scream again!

Anyone that believes our game plan is any different or any better than the last 2 years is sadly deluded. I've been watching this same pooh for longer than just 6 games.

Any change to our game plan now would require a large slice of humble pie for our coaching panel. Trying to change the way we play would need NC to admit he got it wrong. Aint gonna happen. Too much ego I'm afraid.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

By the way, the plan to go back to basic and use the old style positional plan is pretty useless and people that believe we should go back to it, know even less than I.
After all, if that were a good plan, wouldn't most coaches go back to it. Or do all coaches try to apply the new "Zoning" because it is a better plan?

I believe you can try to do both! Just because we would be revolutionary with more direct movement thru half-forward and using big targets does not preclude setting up a form of zoning behind the ball when we believe it is the right way to go.

Just as having a Plan A (eg play direct thru CHF) does not preclude that there is a right time to switch to Plan B (eg run, handball and chip against certain forms of defences).

Unfortunately the current Plan A sucks and there is no ability to have a Plan B (i dont count a 2% tweak to Plan A as Plan B...obviously each game plan probably has minor tweaks each week).

 

[icrow32]

Easy solution... start following Port.

Stupid Post, Rooster lad beat me to it. I agree with him, you seem like a Yes Woman and prefer the "wait and see" or "she'll be right" attitude. This is not the attitude of successful people, clubs or organisations.

If you are happy with the rubbish that has been served up over the last 2 weeks, goon on you, I am not and I don't want to sit through 3 years of 11 goal performances util all 22 players have played 60-80 games together, this will not happen, as players reture move on etc, and new players come in. In fact this is fats becoming Wallaceish.

To suggest that all we need is time is rubbish. We have a few younger players in the team but what club doesn't, we are far from the youngest team in the comp. In fact Hawthorn were the youngest team and won the flag. They did not need 60-80 games together before the game plan was executed successfully. They had a good simple game plan but the players were able to play their natural games.

IMO if we keep going the way we are going the club is screwed for the next 5 years. Our game plan is in need of urgent refinement and simplification. We want fast ball movement and a few risks taken so we can open up play and kick a few exciting goals.

At the momemnt NC wants 30 m passes from defence to attack so that we have a 30m set shot in front of goal. If this doesn't work we chip it backwards, sideways, and avoid a contest. Not exactly exciting is it.

 

[jenny61_99]

What a terrible post. But you have shown before you are a bit clueless and nothing but a 'yes woman'.

Port have a young team but they do play a better brand of footy. Craig is completely clueless with the crap we are dishing up at the moment. He wants us to play some kind of perfect game where we chip chip chip our way to the goal score for an easy goal. It's not going to happen.

Add the fact that there is no run at all, he doesn't back his players and his players don't back each other and we are in strife. But yeah.. someone says an opposition team plays a better brand with plenty of kids as well and instead of acknowledging them as being correct or at least sharing their opinion you tell them to go and support them.

If Adelaide Footy Club had people like you in charge we would be worse than the likes of Freo and Richmond.

So because I would rather see if something works first rather than do knee jerk reactions every time something goes wrong makes me a "yes woman"? Jesus, the players would have NO hope of getting a game plan if all you whingers changed it every bloody week! I can see what Craig is trying to achieve. I can also see that it is failing at the moment. I am willing to accept that, because we have a young side just learning to work together, things will not go smoothly. That doesn't make me a yes woman, rather a realist.

I certainly believe that the coaching panel would not be sitting back saying "she's right, it'll all come good". They would be analysing everything to ensure they a) get the right fit, b) impart the right skills and c) give the players the confidence to execute the plan. For those of you in here believing otherwise - and there appear to be several - I ask who are the delusional ones? You all think you know better than those in the know. Must all be coaching at AFL level yes?

Having confidence in the coaching panel - at the moment - doesn't make me a yes woman. Having belief that our team WILL develop into something special in the next few years gives me that confidence. If I don't see the results I expect, then I will be questioning - as I am sure the Club will!

 

[beartoo]

At the momemnt NC wants 30 m passes from defence to attack so that we have a 30m set shot in front of goal. If this doesn't work we chip it backwards, sideways, and avoid a contest. Not exactly exciting is it.

We'd most likely miss the 30m set shot anyway.
Anyone notice that when we play the Poower they go up a few notches? they played with passion and they really wanted to win. We look like plodders at present, so busy finding out where we fit into the zone that we forget to play footy.
Malcolm Blight said something like this when he 1st came to the Crows--it's a paraphrase because I don't have his actual words:
"There's no mystery about footy to me. There's 4 sticks at either end and a heap of green stuff in between." He was talking about being able to win away from home, but what he said applies generally to the game per se. Footy is a simple game that coaches at present are over-complicating by taking too much from other sports.
In the end, the side that wins the ball most usually kicks the most goals and wins the match. The Crows had about the same number of forward 50 entries to the Poower. But what did we do with our entrie and what did they do with theirs? Why can't we have forwards leading into space? Because there is bugger all space by the time the ball gets up to our forward line. We are battling to kick more than 11 or 12 goals a match. It doesn't take a genius to work out that something is wrong.
And if something is wrong, fix it.

 

[Wood_Duck]

So because I would rather see if something works first rather than do knee jerk reactions every time something goes wrong makes me a "yes woman"? Jesus, the players would have NO hope of getting a game plan if all you whingers changed it every bloody week! I can see what Craig is trying to achieve. I can also see that it is failing at the moment. I am willing to accept that, because we have a young side just learning to work together, things will not go smoothly. That doesn't make me a yes woman, rather a realist.

I certainly believe that the coaching panel would not be sitting back saying "she's right, it'll all come good". They would be analysing everything to ensure they a) get the right fit, b) impart the right skills and c) give the players the confidence to execute the plan. For those of you in here believing otherwise - and there appear to be several - I ask who are the delusional ones? You all think you know better than those in the know. Must all be coaching at AFL level yes?

Having confidence in the coaching panel - at the moment - doesn't make me a yes woman. Having belief that our team WILL develop into something special in the next few years gives me that confidence. If I don't see the results I expect, then I will be questioning - as I am sure the Club will!

I'm not going to say you are a yes women, but you have always been an apologist for poor performance. Exhibit A; Luke Jericho.

If it were only the past 6 games we had been putting up with this negative, defensive football unable to kick winning scores, we'd probably be in the same camp on this topic. Unfortunately its been a bit longer than that. Even you would have to concede this.

As for needing to be an AFL coach to express an opinion on BF, not quite with you there either.

 

[jenny61_99]

I'm not going to say you are a yes women, but you have always been an apologist for poor performance. Exhibit A; Luke Jericho.

If it were only the past 6 games we had been putting up with this negative, defensive football unable to kick winning scores, we'd probably be in the same camp on this topic. Unfortunately its been a bit longer than that. Even you would have to concede this.

As for needing to be an AFL coach to express an opinion on BF, not quite with you there either.

a) I only ever stuck up for Jericho when he'd had a reasonable performance and people were getting stuck in just because. I could see his short comings too (and did comment on it on odd occasions), but really prefer to see the best in any person rather than focus on the worst. It frustrates me when people are constantly hounding particular players, yet accepting of other players faults. Seems so.... unfair?

b) See I don't see that we are playing negative football. I see us attempting to play attacking football but it falling down in the execution. I see the opposition teams "flooding" thus forcing us to become defensive. Our skills have been dreadful and this is what's letting us down, IMO, rather than the game plan. Whether this game plan is the right one is yet to be determined. As you can see though, I'd rather give them some time to sort it out before I jump up and down calling for heads to roll! I can see that there is a big difference in how Craig is coaching from this year to last. Of course there is still some "residual" effects from the previous game plan, but this will eventually disappear as the players get more confident with the new one. Like I said, not sure if this plan is the one for us, but I'm willing to give it a tad more time than 6 weeks.

c) I was being facetious. It appears to me that my knowledge of the game and understanding of how things work is very often not regarded simply because I am a woman. I know I have a lot to learn, and yes I've never played, but I've watched the game for over 30 years now, and have been heavily involved with our club for over 10. I have a reasonable understanding I think.

 

[crowsup]

I agree with the fans that believe we played shithouse. But for those that disagree with the game plan, I would like to point out a couple of facts that may or may not be relevant.
Port had 30 shots at goal and we had 19.
I don't know the amount of entries into the forward 50s for either club but I believe to be about the same.
Port had 11 more shots at goal. But even after we remove the 11 extra shots at goal, port still had 31 more touches to get the ball into their 50s.
If our game plan makes us fart around in the back 50s (as most people believe) How can we get the same amount of entries in our 50s with fewer touches? It is obvious that we do that by currying the ball more. If that is the case, does that not mean that they farted around with the ball more often than us?
Just remember that last week, Geelong touched the ball 130 times more than Adelaide to get only a few extra shots at goal.
Now, if we can only work out how to deliver the ball properly or teach our forwards how to lead and mark the ****ing ball, we could do well!

 

[Crow-mo]

It appears to me that my knowledge of the game and understanding of how things work is very often not regarded simply because I am a woman.

untrue.

 

[jenny61_99]

untrue.

touche Having said that, I am fairly confident that just because you don't agree with my opinions, they are not necessarily wrong!

 

[Crow-mo]

touche Having said that, I am fairly confident that just because you don't agree with my opinions, they are not necessarily wrong!

there is no gender bias here, Nikki & CG's opinions are treated and respected on face value. as are yours.

 

[StuPendus]

a) I only ever stuck up for Jericho when he'd had a reasonable performance and people were getting stuck in just because. I could see his short comings too (and did comment on it on odd occasions), but really prefer to see the best in any person rather than focus on the worst. It frustrates me when people are constantly hounding particular players, yet accepting of other players faults. Seems so.... unfair?

b) See I don't see that we are playing negative football. I see us attempting to play attacking football but it falling down in the execution. I see the opposition teams "flooding" thus forcing us to become defensive. Our skills have been dreadful and this is what's letting us down, IMO, rather than the game plan. Whether this game plan is the right one is yet to be determined. As you can see though, I'd rather give them some time to sort it out before I jump up and down calling for heads to roll! I can see that there is a big difference in how Craig is coaching from this year to last. Of course there is still some "residual" effects from the previous game plan, but this will eventually disappear as the players get more confident with the new one. Like I said, not sure if this plan is the one for us, but I'm willing to give it a tad more time than 6 weeks.

c) I was being facetious. It appears to me that my knowledge of the game and understanding of how things work is very often not regarded simply because I am a woman. I know I have a lot to learn, and yes I've never played, but I've watched the game for over 30 years now, and have been heavily involved with our club for over 10. I have a reasonable understanding I think.

This is Neil's fifth year as coach and his stock standard answer is we are learning from our losses. When are we going to put into practise what we have learnt?

This so called game plan has not dramatically changed for 3 seasons now, so how long do we have to wait before we see improvement?

We have been worked out, by flooding our forward line, putting pressure on our ball carriers and keeping us away from the corridor. It's that simple.

Now I haven't seen any twitching of the game plan to correct this. He might have changed personel to different positions but isn't go to get us many wins when we don't have a different plan to change to when this one doesn't work.

 

[jenny61_99]

there is no gender bias here, Nikki & CG's opinions are treated and respected on face value. as are yours.

Fair enough.